Route rename/ broken hold

There is a route that is now harder due to a broken hold.Do people just add the new grade when logging or should I create a new route with a suffix. Example xxxxxxxx (post hold break)? Technically the route is different now.

Somebody correct me, if I am wrong, but as far as I can see, you can simply update the grade of the route to the current difficulty. This does not change the grade of ascents logged previous to the alteration. Additionally, you could add the information in the description that and when the grade was updated.

TeilzeitAbenteurer I think this is only partially true.

Use route grade

If you did not provide a personal ascent grade (you left the default “Use route grade” checked), your ascent will effectively be tied to the route’s assigned grade and will display the updated route grade if someone later changes the route.

Example: FA suggests 8a. A couple of people log the route and get the 8a grade. After more repetitions, the consensus however, settles on 8a+. The route grade is updated and all ascents now show 8a+

Personal ascent grade

If you explicitly set a personal ascent grade (you uncheck “Use route grade” / use the grade override when logging), that personal grade is stored and will remain unchanged even if the route grade is later edited.

Example: There is a route graded 7a and you flash it although you know you could never flash a 7a atm. You use the personal grade of 6c because you are humble and honest . Your ascent will forever be 6c unless you change it yourself - regardless of any route grade changes.

I believe that this however is not the intended use of personal ascent grade as mentioned once by Simon Dale. There is an extended discussion on this topic already here:

https://www.thecrag.com/discussion/4889263512/route-grade-adjustments

In short:I would also change the route grade and add a comment into the description or at least as a comment to the change log.

Dominik Are you sure about that? I logged an ascent years back on a route and it has been upgraded since. At the time, I just logged the route grade. If I look back on my log now, there is different grades for route grade and ascent grade. Therefore I conclude that the system internally always uses ascent grade, even if route grade was selected at the time of the log.

This of course means that you would have to go back to an log, if the grade changed after your ascent and you want the updated grade to apply, but this is a different topic.

TeilzeitAbenteurer

you can verify this yourself, if you want

- image-1757926829181.png

This is how it works today. I don't know if that has changed at some point in time.

PS: Interestingly, the points (1968) are not updated - but probably should be.

TeilzeitAbenteurer the „years back“ is the problem. They changed it with the new logging interface and the new tick styles. There‘s also an open issue on github:https://github.com/theCrag/website/issues/4145

Well, then this is actually an open issue and for now, the best option for the TO is probably to add a new route with an updated grade.

Maybe it would make more sense to rename the route before the broken hold to make clear that it is kind of an "historic artifact" and then make a new route with the old name and an updated grade.

This would needlessly duplicate a whole lot of routes over time. Maybe let‘s just push the issue a bit, the implementation would be nothing more than a change of defaults.

Christoph Rauch I agree that this is not an ideal solution (that's why I wrote "for now). You could merge the newly generated routes once the issue is solved. Alternatively, you could add a comment and people use the Personal ascent grade to correct for the grade.

Regarding pushing the issue: it has not been solved in three years, so I would not expect quick solutions from that side.

I agree that the routes pre and post break should be split for now, but only if there are already ascents logged. Otherwise, the grade should be updated and if someone logs a pre-break ascent, they should simply add a personal grade and comment.

A broken hold does not make a new route, but when the route falls, or a significant piece of the wall (one or more key points) is removed, and the bolts need to be re-installed, then there is a space for new FA and renaming.old route name můstek be kept regarding historical ascents.