Movatterモバイル変換

Network Working Group                                  Richard W. WatsonRequest for Comments: 101                                        SRI-ARCNIC: 5762                                              February 23, 1971NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETINGWednesday Evening, February 17   Mike Sher opened by welcoming the group to Urbana and briefly   indicated that ILLIAC IV was expected to be running this summer.  The   ILLIAC IV Project has been split into two projects; one on basic   system hardware and software, and the other on applications.  Their   IMP is not yet connected to their PDP-11.   Steve Crocker asked for topics to be discussed at this meeting; these   are indicated below.   Peggy Karp of Mitre has been summarizing the old RFC's.  She has a   list of about 30 topics and is summarizing their present status.  She   expects to finish around the end of February.  See RFC #100,   NIC(5761).  It was suggested that someone write an RFC indicating   which ones are obsolete.  It was also suggested that the Network   Information Center (NIC) help sites in organizing their hardcopy   material.   There then followed brief discussions of experiences in using the   Network.  John Melvin (SRI-ARC) summarized SRI's experience in using   the Utah PDP-10 to help in SRI's transfer from an XDS 940 to a PDP-   10.  In April-May 1970 it was clear that SRI was headed toward a   PDP-10 in order to have the capacity and reliability to fulfill their   role as the Network Information Center.  They had had some previous   experience in connecting with Utah, and so it seemed logical to try   to use the Utah 10 to aid the transfer.      In June use of the Network began.  SRI uses higher level languages      extensively, so the first task was to transfer the compiler-      compiler Tree Meta.  Source code was generated on the 940 to run      on the PDP-10.  Binaries were then transmitted to Utah and run and      debugged.  Patches were performed where possible, and source      changes accumulated.  A new source and binaries would then be made      periodically.Watson                                                          [Page 1]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971      Once Tree Meta was running, a new high level language (called L-      10) for programming the On-Line System (NLS) was implemented in      the same way.  When L-10 was running the core device independent      parts of NLS were rewritten and debugged.  NLS was completely      reorganized during the transfer.      At the SRI and Utah ends a control program allowing three users to      connect to Utah was written, which ran as a user process and      allowed character interaction and files to be transmitted.  The      scheme worked well and much useful work was accomplished in the      July--December period with some people on 4-5 hours per day.  The      voice link was used when something would go wrong in trying to      determine where the problem existed and to reset.  At times they      would go 2 weeks with no problems.  SRI has an IMP interface      diagnostic which ran as a T/S process.      Generally, echoing was handled at the SRI end.  DDT was used at      Utah end.  Round trip character delays of 4 seconds were not      uncommon, and at certain points delays of 8 or 10 minutes were      experienced.  These delays were the result of the implementation      used which involved multiple processes at each end, each to be      scheduled.  Utah was heavily loaded at 2:00 PM and the SRI people      took to running at night and on weekends.      When the SRI PDP-10 came in in December, use of the Network      slowed.      Users would have liked a more constant response time instead of      the widely varying one so that their work habits could adapt to it      even if it was slow.   Gerry Cole reported on some results of measurements made during the   SRI-Utah work.  Measurements were also made at SRI to help in   interpreting the data obtained by UCLA.  Gerry wrote a paper   summarizing these statistics which is available from him care of SDC.      Gerry requested that when people are set up to use the Network,      they inform him so that he can gather statistics.  UCLA will      eventually have a program to scan the Network for utilization, but      if people could tell him when they were going to use the Network,      it would be easier to measure meaningful things and interpret the      data from a knowledge of type of usage.   Bob Kahn indicated that BBN is interested in the Statistics on   overall flow to see if the Network is configured properly.  Gerry   said that UCLA is interested in the statistics for Network modeling   studies.  Measurements are taken by remote control by use of a   feature designed into the IMP's by BBN for such a function.Watson                                                          [Page 2]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   Jim White of UCSB said that UCSB and RAND had begun to experiment in   use of the Network for the climate study at RAND.  The UCSB NCP has   been up the last 3 or 4 weeks during the day.  A document, NIC (5480)   is available in the NIC collection describing it.  UCSB is also using   their NCP for local interprocess communication experiments.  RAND is   using the Remote Job Entry facility of the UCSB 360-75.  They are   using UCSB to check out their NCP.  Now that UCSB is running their   NCP during normal usage hours, they have uncovered some bugs in their   hardware interface to their IMP.  The software at both UCSB and RAND   seems to be working.  Typical jobs being sent back and forth are just   test jobs of a few source statements.  The UCSB NCP is about 39K   bytes and runs in a 60K byte partition.  Users access it through   assembly language, Fortran or PL/I calls.   Steve Crocker now returned to the discussion of the agenda for the   meeting and longer range organization of the NWG.  Steve felt that   Working committees on various topics were required as the open   meeting was good for bringing up problems, general discussion and   education, but was too large to prepare detailed specifications on   various topics.   The following topics requiring work were listed:      1. Graphics      2. Data Transformation Languages      3. Host-Host Protocol -- long range study      4. Host-Host Protocol -- Short term maintenance and modifications      5. Accounting      6. Logger Protocol      7. Typewriter connection protocol      8. Documentation      9. Data Management   In #1 Al Vezza of MIT is organizing an NWG meeting in graphics April   25-27 which can accommodate 31 people.  People desiring to come   should prepare for their institution a working paper.  Al sees three   classes of problems:      i)  two hosts, each with computing and graphics facilities,      wanting to use special facilities at the otherWatson                                                          [Page 3]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971      ii)  one host with graphic facilities but no number crunching      facilities wanting to use computing capabilities of a second host      iii)  a node with a graphic terminal not having picture processing      or computing capability desiring to obtain these from other nodes.   With respect to #2 John Heafner of RAND indicated RAND wants to   provide data rearrangement services of the type indicated in RFC #83,   NIC (5621).  More on this topic below.   With respect to #3 a group under A. N. Habermann of CMU has been   formed to look at the Host-Host protocol.  Toward the end of March   they are planning a paper discussing their ideas.  The group consists   of:      A. N. Habermann, CMU      G. B. Hansen, CMU      W. Wulf, CMU      R. Chen, CMU      R. Kalin, Lincoln Lab      The group welcomes suggestions of topics.   With respect to #4 a group is to be set up to evaluate present   protocol and produce needed changes to the protocol.  The group is to   be conservative and produce only changes needed to solve known   problems and leave esthetic changes until later.   With respect to the other problems discussion was put off until later   (see below).   Two people interested in the Network who were observers at the   meeting spoke briefly.      C. D. (Terry) Shepard of the Computer Communication Task Force,      Canadian Government, outlined the goals of his group.  These goals      are:      1)  establish a plan to link up various Canadian computers and      establish a network      2)  develop what the needs of Canada are for such a networkWatson                                                          [Page 4]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971      3)  see that the benefits of such a network are distributed      throughout Canada      4)  prevent control of computing in Canada from being totally      dependent on foreign sources.      5)  see that critical computer facilities exist in Canada.      Doug McKay of IBM then described briefly a network project started      in IBM about 2 years ago.  Basic network is completed.  Users are      coming on.  The network is to be used heavily to send files back      and forth for program updating.  IBM is trying to look at the      network as a multiprocessor machine.  They are trying to handle      all IBM system possibly heterogeneous such as 360's, 370's, CP '      67, the 91, a 44, and a NYU CDC 6600.      There is another project linking TSS systems using a 91 for remote      job entry.  IBM has taken a centralized control point of view      using one central machine for control and flow distribution.  They      are not entirely happy with this approach and are moving toward a      more decentralized approach like the ARPA Network.  IBM presently      has about 14 people involved in the project.Thursday morning, February 18   Thursday morning started with the various sites reporting their   status.  Alex McKenzie of BBN prepared a status form later in the day   which was filled out by the representatives of the sites Thursday   evening.  BBN and NIC will prepare a procedure for keeping this   information at the sites and up to date.   STATUS   BBN, TENEX PROJECT:  Final stage of incorporating NCP in TENEX.  A   connection was attempted to Utah, but some bugs were found.  The NCP   treats the network as a file in a way integral with other types of   files.  The NCP includes a teletype interface.  They hope to   incorporate the NCP in SRI'S TENEX system by the end of the month.   BBN, NETWORK GROUP:  reported that they were working on three areas      1. Improving the current network      2. Working on a 316 version of the IMP and as a Terminal Interface      Processor (TIMP)      3. AccountingWatson                                                          [Page 5]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   There are currently 15 IMPs connected to the network.  A new software   system with minor changes is expected by March.   The TIMP uses the 316.  A hardware design exists, but they are still   defining the software.  A TIMP can handle up to 64 variable speed   terminals both sync and assync.  The first machine is to go to MITRE   in September.   BBN emphasized that there are 3 products:  a 516 IMP, a 316 IMP, and   a 316 TIMP.  The 316 IMP is less expensive than the 516 IMP and can   connect to one host.  BBN is not planning at the moment to exchange   316 IMPs for 516 IMPs.  The two are plug-plug compatible.   SDC:  In the debug phase for their NCP and expect it up in 4 to 6   weeks.  Maybe by 8 weeks their T/S available for network use.  Their   T/S is a 360/65 running the ADEPT system.   CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY:  The IMP has been connected for   about one month, but as yet have no NCP.  They are planning to use   the NCP implemented at Harvard.  Case has a PDP-10/50 system.  They   expect to be up in two to three months.   HARVARD:  Harvard has a PDP-1 and PDP-10 connected to the IMP.  The   NCP for the 10 is in final debugging.  The PDP-1 is for refreshing   displays.  The PDP-10 is for linguistic research and students.   Expect to be up in one to two months.   SRI-ARC:  SRI has been in the final stage of conversion from an XDS   940 to a PDP-10.  They plan to use the BBN TENEX NCP and should be up   in three or four weeks.   MIT DYNAMIC MODELING - PDP-10:  They expect an NCP to be working by   March.   MIT MULTICS:  They are connected to the IMP and expect their NCP to   be in the final debug stage in four weeks.  As Multics is a service   machine, they don't have unlimited access and must perform checkout   at off hours.  They expect to offer regular service to the network in   three or four months.   UTAH:  PDP-10/50 probably going to be running TENEX in the fall.   Their NCP is being written in a higher level language (Euler run   interpretively) and are debugging in conjunction with BBN.  They have   connected to and logged into themselves and expect a debugged version   within a month.Watson                                                          [Page 6]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   LINCOLN LABORATORY, TX-2:  They are testing the IMP interface, found   errors in Lincoln hardware.  Currently, no data errors, but have   errors with message IDs.  They expect their NCP with logger to be up   by April 15.  They indicated that for testing purposes, they would   like to bring up their IMP without being open to network traffic.   BBN says that there is a way to echo to yourself without being open   to the network (contact BBN for details).   LINCOLN LABORATORY, 360/97:  Running CP/CMS.  The IMP interface was   completed last month.  The NCP and Logger are working.  They are   planning to put up the NCP as a regular service in April.  On request   experiments with them can be run sooner.   UCSB:  Has had their NCP since October.  The NCP runs as independent   batch job.  They plan to provide service to their On-Line System (a   manual is in the NIC collection at each site NIC (5480).  They plan   to be on the air morning to evening on a regular basis.  There are   some interface bugs as indicated earlier.   RAND:  360/65.  Their NCP is a user process and can be resident.  It   requires 8K bytes and does not have a logger.   UCLA, Sigma-7:  Their NCP is in final debugging.  They expect to be   up by March 1 with NCP, logger, and typewriter connection program.   COMPUTER CORPORATION OF AMERICA (CCA):  Has just started a project to   create a node for the 10-12 bit laser store.  They are going to use a   PDP-10 as a front end.  They are developing a language for data   manipulation.  The store will also be connected to the B-6500-ILLIAC   IV.  They are planning data compression as part of their language to   ease the problems in use of the network's 50 kilobit line.  They are   concentrating on security and privacy measures.  Initial emphasis   will be on shared files.  Installation is planned during 1972.   The following projects did not have representatives at the meeting.   Steve Crocker reported on their status.      CMU:  PDP-10/50:  Their IMP is connected, and they are planning to      use the Harvard NCP.      SRI-AI PROJECT:  PDP10.  They are planning to run TENEX in the      fall.      STANFORD-AI:  They are not connected yet, but expect to be on by      summer.Watson                                                          [Page 7]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   The above completed the review of status.  Steve Crocker then   indicated that the old NWG mailing list was no longer to be used and   that the list maintained by the NIC (5731,) was the one to be used or   that the NIC would handle distribution by sending things through your   station agent to them.  If your station agent or liaison person   should change, please let the NIC know immediately.   HOST-HOST LOGGER PROTOCOL DISCUSSION:  Tom Skinner of Multics opened   the discussion of the logger by indicating that they wanted at least   an interim protocol so that use of the network could get started.   They had handed out RFC #98 NIC(5744), containing their ideas   Wednesday night.  SRI-ARC had a similar document, RFC #97, NIC   (5740), handed out Wednesday night also.  Multics recommended the   revised logger protocol of RFC #80, NIC (5608).      Some discussion on the relative merits of the logger protocol of      RFC #66, NIC (5409), versus RFC #80 was given.  The protocol of      #80 had some potential problems due to assumptions which must be      made after the initial contact was established.      The result of the discussion was that the logger protocol of RFC      #66 was adopted with the correction that the allocate commands      were to be issued after the connection was established.      There seemed to be a need for an official document to be issued      with the correct logger specification given.      Tom also recommended that initial communication to the logger be      in 7-bit ASCII in a 8-bit field.  There was some discussion as to      whether the eighth bit should be a 0 or a 1.  It was finally      decided that it should be a 0.      Steve then listed some known problems or questions about the      host-host protocol.      1)  Echo      2)  Message Type      3)  Interrupts      4)  Marking-Padding      5)  Half Duplex vs. Full Duplex communication during the      establishing of a socket.Watson                                                          [Page 8]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971      With regard to marking the following choices existed      a)  leave alone      b)  separate the heading and data into two messages      c)  have message by multiples of 72 bits      With regard to interrupts (INS, INR), there was a synchronization      problem with regard to message transmission.  That is, a message      could be sent and then an interrupt issued.  The interrupt could      arrive before the message, in the middle of the message.  Some way      of marking the point in the data stream where an interrupt was      sent is needed.   A subgroup was appointed to consider the above Host-Host problems.   Shortly, they would issue an RFC with modifications to the Host-Host   protocol, then collect comments and then issue an official revision.   People with suggestions should contact the committee.  The committee   would also be contacting the sites.  The committee is:      S. Crocker, UCLA (Chairman)      R. Tomlinson, BBN      T. Barkalow, Lincoln Lab      G. Grossman, University of Illinois      J. White, UCSB      R. Bressler, MIT, Project MAC   The discussion then returned to problems of typewriter access to the   network.  The problems are presented in RFC #97, NIC (5740).  Some   are:      a)  Character set      b)  End of Line      c)  Interrupts      d)  Message Format      e)  Half Duplex, Full DuplexWatson                                                          [Page 9]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   These problems were given to a committee on typewriter connection   protocol for solution:      Tom O'Sullivan, Raytheon (Chairman)      Ed Meyer, MIT-MAC      John Melvin, SRI-ARC      Bob Long, SDC      Bob Metcalfe, Harvard      Wil Crowther, BBN   This committee will come up quickly (within a week) with an interim   protocol and within several weeks a longer term protocol.Thursday afternoon, February 18   Thursday afternoon was open to a presentation by the University of   Illinois on the ILLIAC IV and a demonstration of the Plato project.   The initial test in November of the transmission lines to the ILLIAC   IV processors indicated no timing problems.  The ILLIAC IV hardware   is to be up the fall as is the software.  The system will be located   in California at NASA Ames Research Center.  The connection to the   network from the University of Illinois will be a PDP-11 with storage   CRTs, 2400 baud character CRTs, typewriters attached.  It will have a   Gould Clevite printer, DECtapes and small disc.  The B6500 at the   University will also be connected to the Network.Thursday evening, February 18   The initial topic was a discussion of status and plans for the   Network Information Center.  Dick Watson of SRI reviewed the present   off-line system consisting of a Station Agent and Network Liaison   person.  The function of the Station Agent is to aid in the use of   the NIC services.  The function of the Network Liaison person is to   be a point of contact for technical questions about his site which   may be asked by people at other sites, and to see that the   appropriate people see relevant documents and information received by   the site.  If the network is really going to develop the feeling of a   community, people need to be aware of what people are doing and   thinking at the various sites.  Therefore, people were encouraged to   send reports, memos, notes, records of conversations of general   interest through the NIC.  Any kind of information can be sent   through the NIC from formal reports to informal handwritten notes.   In order to encourage people to send out initial thoughts and ideasWatson                                                         [Page 10]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   as well as those having had much thought, the question was raised as   to whether of not there should be titles for different classes of   documents which would help to make clear the level of informality or   formality of the communication.      There did not seem to be a need for such an arrangement.  The      question of privacy and security was then raised.  There was some      feeling among a few people that if letters or records of      conversations were entered in the NIC collection that there might      be compromise of some privacy.  The NIC was asked if it would      check all parties involved in such a communication before entering      it in the collection.  Dick felt that given NIC's resources, it      would be better if the parties involved gave their approval before      giving the letter or other communication to the NIC.      The initial online services to be provided by the NIC are access      to a typewriter version of the SRI-ARC On-Line system (NLS),      provision of a message service, access to the NIC catalog and      probably files of site status, network personnel, etc.  Services      will be provided later to aid station agents in communities at      their sites.  At the principal investigators meeting there seemed      to be considerable interest in having NIC obtain a collection of      ARPA project reports and working papers.  To handle storage from      such an expanded collection, user of microfilm seemed important.      There are number of problems with use of microfilm, such as a      single or limited number of readers and need for hardcopy      facilities.  The NIC will be looking into these problems and begin      experimenting with use of microfilm material.      The NIC is experimenting with remote access to NLS using an IMLAC      terminal.  Considerable interest in graphic access to NIC was      indicated.  The NIC feels graphic access is not an immediate high      priority requirement, but will as soon as possible provide      specifications to those sites with programming resources waiting      to experiment with graphic access.      Steve Crocker brought up the problem of how people are to gain      access and learn to use service facilities at various sites.  The      question of what additional information needed to be included with      or appended to user documentation to use service facilities over      the network was discussed.  The question of what material should      be in hardcopy, and what online was raised.  The NIC will study      these problems and produce a set of recommended procedures for      handling user manuals, and a list of information needed to enable      network access.Watson                                                         [Page 11]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971      Dick Watson indicated that users of the NIC would feel most      comfortable using typewriter terminals running at 30 char/sec and      having upper and lower case graphics, although service would be      available for slower terminals and terminals with single-case      graphics.  RFC #97, NIC (5740), described an initial protocol for      connection to the NIC.  As a result of the formation of a      committee to produce a standard typewriter connection protocol,      the protocol of RFC #97 will be modified to conform to an interim      protocol suggested by that committee.  A new RFC will be issued      shortly with the interim protocol.  Since the meeting the      typewriter connection protocol committee has decided not to issue      an interim protocol.   The discussion turned to file transfer between sites by name and   without users being required to log into each site involved in the   transfer.  Gary Grossman of the University of Illinois will produce   an initial RFC on this subject.Friday morning, February 19   There are several aspects of Data Management associated with the   network.  The following aspects and the people responsible for them   were indicated:      Data Machine 10^12 bit store      Data Management Language      The Form Machine      ILLIAC IV Information Management System      Interim File System      File Transfer Protocol   The Data Machine is Computer Corporation of America's responsibility,   but close coordination with the ILLIAC IV Information Management   System and network efforts toward a Data Management Language is   required.   The work on a Data Management Language is to be coordinated by J.   Madden of University of Illinois, Bob Metcalfe of Harvard, J. Heafner   of RAND, Jim White of UCSB, and Doug McKay of IBM.   John Heafner indicated that he plans to implement his plans for the   Form Machine, RFC #83, NIC (5609) UCSB, Multics, and Lincoln Lab also   indicated that they are interested in getting a version running.Watson                                                         [Page 12]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   A number of sites, UCLA, SRI, RAND, University of Illinois, Raytheon,   MITRE, indicated interest in the range 1-3 months in storing files on   UCSB 360/75 disc packs.  Jim White said he would produce a system   within the next 4-6 weeks to allow network users to store files at   UCSB.   The problems of file transfer by name between host systems was again   raised and G. Grossman of University of Illinois indicated he would   start a dialog on the subject by producing an RFC.   The question of user names and the meaning of user IDs in socket   numbers was raised.  At present socket numbers have no structure, but   several people felt that for accounting, file transfer, and   interprocess communication some structure was probably valuable.  A   committee consisting of:      J. Heafner, RAND (chairman)      E. Meyer, MIT-Multics      G. Grossman, University of Illinois   will produce an RFC stating the issues behind alternate proposals for   socket number structures.   UCLA indicated it wanted a link number in the experimental range of   link numbers for use in measurements experiments with the network.   Link number 223 was assigned to this function.  (Link 223 was later   discovered to be assigned.  Link 191 was chosen instead.  See RFC   #104, NIC (5768,).   The problem of accounting was raised as a number of machine or   systems on the network will provide service functions.  The present   service facilities being the 360/91 at UCLA, the 360/75 at UCSB, the   NIC at SRI, Multics at MIT, the ILLIAC IV, the 360/67 at Lincoln Lab,   and the Data Machine.  The advanced Host-Host protocol study   committee is looking at the accounting problem.  There was brief   mention made of a network banking system.  Bob Kahn of BBN indicated   that he would start a dialog on the subject of accounting by   producing a paper putting down the issues as he sees them.   The question was then raised about handling of administrative   procedures such as obtaining accounting numbers on foreign systems.   Dick Watson said he would look into this problem and see how the NIC   can help in its solution.Watson                                                         [Page 13]

RFC 101        NOTES ON THE NETWORK WORKING GROUP MEETING  February 1971   The final question to be considered was the frequency and utility of   these NWG meetings.  The general consensus was that this had been a   useful meeting, but that more preparation on specific topics to be   discussed at the meeting should be done ahead of time.  People who   want to bring up topics at the meeting were asked to distribute   position or introductory papers about a month ahead of the next   meeting, if possible.  Peggy Karp will handle trying to obtain a   block of rooms for the NWG during the Spring Joint.  She will send   out a request for reservations to the sites soon.          [This RFC was put into machine readable form for entry]      [into the online RFC archives by Kelly Tardif, Viag�nie 10/99]Watson                                                         [Page 14]