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Network Working Group A. WestineRequest for Comments: 1211 J. Postel ISI March 1991Problems with the Maintenance of Large Mailing ListsStatus of this Memo This RFC discusses problems with maintaining large mailing lists, especially the processing of error reports. This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard. Distribution of this memo is unlimited.Table of Contents1. Introduction..............................................12. Discussion................................................13. Typical Problems..........................................33.1. Misdirected Error Reports.................................33.2. Sublists..................................................33.3. Misdirected Requests......................................53.4. Misdirected Messages......................................54. Summary...................................................5 APPENDIX A - I used to be on the List..........................6 APPENDIX B - Changing Addresses and Sublists...................8 APPENDIX C - Sublists and Other Protocol Worlds................9 APPENDIX D - Errors from Hidden Hosts..........................10 APPENDIX E - No Postmaster.....................................12 APPENDIX F - Examples of Error Messages........................145. Security Considerations...................................536. Authors' Addresses........................................541. Introduction Maintaining large mailing lists, especially the processing of error reports, poses many problems. Most of the examples come from the experience of managing the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) mailing list. Many examples are presented in this memo. Most of the specific problems shown have already been corrected.2. Discussion At USC - Information Sciences Institute (ISI) we maintain mailing lists for the Internet Research Groups, the IETF, and other Internet groups; about 25 lists altogether. We receive about 400 messages a month requesting additions or deletions to these lists. There areWestine & Postel [Page 1]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 about 20 messages a day requesting changes to the lists. We also receive about 300 error messages a month due to mail delivery problems. Many of these are duplicates, but the net result is that about 10 cases per day need to be investigated. Many of the error reports are for "soft errors", primarily delayed delivery notices, such as "not delivered for 2 days, will try for 3 more days". These just waste the list maintainer's time and are otherwise ignored. This is especially wasteful when such messages are repeated every day. However, if the same host is a cause of such messages for many days in a row, the list maintainer may investigate. Please note that ignoring the soft errors is not always easy, since error messages often contain error reports on several mailboxes, requiring the error message to be read carefully to pick out the hard errors. The error reports that indicate hard errors, such as "no such user" require the list maintainer to take action. In many cases the appropriate action is to simply delete the user mailbox from the list. However, if the mailbox in question is someone known to be active as a working group chair, or such, further investigation is necessary. The more general case of "no such host" may be a temporary condition, but if it continues for several days it must be investigated. Since the error conditions do not have standardized names (for example, "no such user" vs. "user unknown") it is sometimes difficult to understand whether a soft or hard error is being reported, and what one should do about it. For example, what does "Can't Find Mail Center!" mean, or what should one do about "mailll:%MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening SYS$USER2:[STGEORGE.LONGMAIL]MAIL$00040093BE236612.MAI; as outputI)"? The first step in investigating a problem with a user mailbox is to see if it is on the list. If so, the next step is to see if there really is a problem with it. This is done by using the SMTP VRFY and EXPN features, Finger, or Whois. This often develops information suggesting that the user has recently changed his address. This has to be confirmed through an exchange of messages (with the postmaster) and then the mailing list must be updated. If the user is not on the list, then it is likely the mail is sent via an exploder or sublist. So the investigation focuses on finding which exploder may be involved, usually this is found by looking at the path (from the received lines) of the error report. The exploder that is the source of the error can sometimes be checked using theWestine & Postel [Page 2]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 SMTP EXPN feature. Then the postmaster is notified. If the error report is about a host being unknown, the programs "whathost", "dig", "ping", and "traceroute" may be used to find the problem. However, getting the problem fixed may require communication with host and domain administrators. What to do if problems can't be resolved: Delete the offending entry from the list that may eventually cause the following response: "I used to be on the ietf list, how come I am not getting the messages any more?" (SeeAppendix A.)3. Typical Problems In this section we discuss typical and frequent problems that occur with large mailing lists.3.1 Misdirected Error Reports The most frequent problem is that error reports are sent to the author of the message rather than the list owner. One way this can happen is when there is trouble with the author's host not connecting to another host along the route before it reaches ISI where the mailing list is. At ISI the SMTP "from" information is added when the message is distributed to the list so that hosts following the SMTP protocol will send their error reports to the list owner. However, not all hosts do this properly. Another problem is that some machines do not pay attention to the SMTP information about where to send error reports.3.2 Sublists What is a sublist? It is a mailbox with an alias-name that expands to a mailing-list or group of recipients. There are many sublists on our mailing lists. When a user requests that a mailbox be added to a list that looks like an exploder, the following message is sent: We ask that all list maintainters of exploder mailboxes (an alias-name that expands to a mailing-list or group of recipients) set up some sort of ownership at their site, for their list. What this means is, is any mailbox on your list is invalid, the error message will go to you (the list owner), and you can delete that mailbox from your list.Westine & Postel [Page 3]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 An example of an entry in your aliases file would be: owner-ietf-local: stev@vax.ftp.com, (or your list maintainer/postmaster) It appears that few people understand the concept of list ownership, or they do not set it up correctly. There is ample evidence of problems in this area. When investigating "user unknown" messages it is often the case that the user is not individually listed on our list. The next step is to check received lines and hunt for an exploder list with a host similar to the one that the error came from or points to. At that point we attempt to use SMTP EXPN or VRFY to check that the user is on a sublist. Since many hosts do not implement EXPN or VRFY, the result of our check is inconclusive. We then contact the list maintainer and ask him to delete the invalid mailbox if it is on his sublist. Another problem occurs when someone on a sublist wants to change the name of his mailbox. We look through the main list to make the correction and if that mailbox is not on the list we check the received lines and look for clues to determine which host this user may be on. More than likely it is a sublist. (SeeAppendix B.) When the mailbox is in another protocol world (like UUCP or BITNET) there are often problems with the handling and direction of error reports. (SeeAppendix C.) Sometimes we are unable to find the addresses reported in the error message on the mailing list in question. In such a case we check the mailing list for a host name also named in the received lines of a message in error. If we find a match then we look for an exploder on that host and expand the sublist there to see if the mailbox in question is on that sublist. (SeeAppendix D.) At the time a sublist is entered into our list we record the name of the requestor and consider him the sublist owner. As people change roles or companies this contact sometimes fails, in that case we fall back to contacting the postmaster. However, not every site has a "postmaster" mailbox. (SeeAppendix E.) Most users send their requests and changes to the IETF-Request mailbox, when they are on, in fact, a sublist, usually at their own company. This creates a problem for us trying to determine which exploder they're on.Westine & Postel [Page 4]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 In this case, the request message is forwarded to the sublist owner so he can make changes to his list. However, sometimes hosts may be somewhat similar in name (from the same organization, but in a different department, in a different building, off campus, etc.) and it's hard to know if this person should really be on that particular sublist, or listed individually. Occasionally, we examine the main file to see if there are individual addresses that could be incorporated in a sublist.3.3 Misdirected Requests Some users don't know that mailing lists usually have a "request" mailbox, so they mistakenly send their requests to the main list. When this happens, several people will resend the request to the list maintainer and then want to know if the request was completed.3.4 Misdirected Messages There are also messages that go to the request mailbox when they are intended for the main list. These messages get forwarded to the main list and a message is sent to the user notifying him of the correction and the proper way to address his message.4. Summary Running a mailing list should be easy, and with small lists it is. The number of changes and errors are small and infrequent. But when lists get large and traffic gets heavy, the number of changes and errors grow to many a day. The level of effort to manage a mailing list of substantial size and use becomes significant. An additional problem is the creativity shown by mail program developers in inventing numerous different error reports. We present a large sample of such messages inAppendix F. We hope that these examples will be of help to other mailing list maintainers. Our experience with maintaining large lists suggests the following: Users: Please be considerate and try to work problems out locally. Sublist owners: Please do everything you can to get the error messages related to your sublist to go to you. Please try to get users on your system to talk to you about additions and deletions.Westine & Postel [Page 5]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX AA.1. Inquiry Message From User Regarding His Mailbox Date: Tue, 6 Nov 90 03:02:09 PST From: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: dist list Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this distribution list. My email address is : bryant@janus.enet.dec.com Thanks Stewart~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~A.2. Message To User - His Mailbox Was Re-added To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Subject: Re: dist list In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800. <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Stewart, > Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this > distribution. list. > > My email address is: bryant@janus.enet.dec.com I readded you to the list. --Ann~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 6]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991A.3. User Name Readded and It Bounced Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Returned mail: User unknown ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus", during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>. Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is: %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM (can't decypher error code) 550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> (bounced) ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA21747; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:38 Received: from LOCALHOST by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA24660>; Tue, 6 Nov 90 13:54:25 -0800 To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> Cc: ietf-request@venera.isi.edu Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu Subject: Re: dist list In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 -0800. <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Stewart, > Please will you check that I have not been deleted from this > distribution list. > > My email address is > > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com I readded you to the list. --Ann************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 7]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX BIn this example, the old mailbox "kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM" was tobe deleted and the new mailbox "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" was tobe added. However, when checking the mailing list the old address wasnot found. Further checking for anything that resembled the hostnamestill did not turn up anything. Then checking the full headerinformation of the sender's message showed that the message camethrough UUNET.UU.NET. There is a sublist on UUNET called"post-ietf@UUNET.UU.NET". By using the SMTP feature EXPN on thesublist the mailbox was found in the form "ssbell!kent". Finally, amessage was sent to the postmaster at UUNET and asked him to deletethe mailbox.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B.1. Error Report Date: Mon, 22 Oct 90 14:05:38 -0500 From: kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM (Kent Landfield) To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: E-mail address change Hello, I am currently receiving ietf related email at kent@ssbell.IMD.Sterling.COM. I am moving to sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM as the ssbell system is going away. Could you please change my address to kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM so that I can stay on the list ? Thanks.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~B.2. Message Sent to Postmaster To: postmaster@uunet.uu.net Subject: Address - <ssbell!kent> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 90 13:44:24 PDT From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, Please delete the mailbox ssbell!kent from the "post-ietf" list. I will add his new address "kent@sparky.IMD.Sterling.COM" directly to the ietf list. Thanks. Ann************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 8]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX CAnother problem comes up when a sublist happens to be located in anotherprotocol world such as BITNET or UUCP and that mail is forwarded througha mail relay. Experience shows that proper implementation of the listownership concept is even less likely.SIGNET is a host in the UUCP world receiving mail forwarded throughthe mail relay THINK.COM.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C.1. Error Report To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu Date: Fri, 05 Oct 90 23:45:26 -0400 From: uucp@Think.COM Subject: Warning From uucp We have been unable to contact machine 'signet' since you queued your job. mail signet!ietf-interest (Date 10/04) Attempts will continue for a few more days. Sincerely, early-bird!uucp~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C.2. Message Sent to Postmaster To: postmaster@think.com Subject: unable to contact machine 'signet' Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 09:42:54 PDT From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, We have a mailbox on the ietf list that gets relayed through your host THINK.COM. We will have to delete this mailbox if a connection cannot be corrected. Thanks, Ann************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 9]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX DSometimes, the addresses reported in error can't be found on the IETFlist. In this example, "GATORCORP" is not on the IETF list. Inchecking the received lines there is a host called VITALINK.COM. Wehave an exploder on our list at VITALINK called "ietf-interest@vitalink.com". The program DIG shows that VITALINK.COM MXs toUUNET.UU.NET. Since VITALINK is not directly on the Internet the EXPNand VRFY features of SMTP don't apply, the sublist on VITALINK can't bechecked. However, there are enough clues to make an educated guess thatthe mailboxes on the host GATORCORP are on the exploder sublist atVITALINK. In this situation a message was sent to the Postmaster ofVITALINK.COM to ask him to delete the invalid addresses from hissublist.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D.1. Error Report Return-Path: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id <AA16502>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:51 PST Posted-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800 Received: from UUNET.UU.NET by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA27149>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 14:34:34 -0800 Received: from vitam6.UUCP by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with UUCP id AA12926; Wed, 7 Nov 90 17:34:28 -0500 Received: by vitam6.ENG.Vitalink.COM (5.61/1.35) id AC03235; Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 13:54:08 -0800 From: vitam6!MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.UU.NET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp, melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp...Host unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 10]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991D.2. Message Sent to Postmaster To: postmaster@vitalink.com Cc: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: andrew_greenfield.safari@gatorcorp, melinda_le_baron.safari@gatorcorp... Host unknown Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 15:30:24 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> Hi, We have an exploder mailbox on the IETF list called "ietf-interest@vitalink.com". I'm not sure, but I think the following addresses may be on that list. Please look into this "host unknown" problem. If these addresses need to be deleted, please do so. Thanks, Ann************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 11]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX EEvery host on the Internet that processes mail is required to have a"postmaster" mailbox to receive error reports and trouble inquiries.In this case, the "postmaster" mailbox was not recognized.E.1. Message Sent to IETF-Request To: (ietf-request@venera.isi.edu) From: Caralyn Brown (CBROWN@ENR) Date: 10 Jan 91 8:24 AM Subject: please remove me from this list Please remove me from this list. I'm changing companies and I'd like to keep the mailbox from getting out of hand. If it's not too much trouble, could you just send me a confirmation that I was deleted? Thanks. caralyn~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~E.2. Message Sent to Postmaster To: postmaster@list.prime.com Cc: CBROWN@enr.prime.com, ietf-request@venera.isi.edu Subject: Please delete from "ietf@list.prime.com" - Carolyn Brown Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 09:50:15 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, Please delete Carolyn from your sublist. We do not have her address listed individually on the main IETF list. Thanks, Ann~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 12]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991E.3. Error Report From: postmaster-request@List.Prime.COM (List Service version 1.0.x463) Subject: returned mail Message-Type: Return To: <westine@ISI.EDU> Your mail addressed to "postmaster" could not be processed: There is no mailing list named "postmaster" at this site. For help, send to help@List.Prime.COM; to receive an index of available lists, send to index@List.Prime.COM; to reach a List Administrator, send to admin@List.Prime.COM.************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 13]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 APPENDIX F - Examples of Error MessagesF.1. Delayed Delivery Notices From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800 Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA08435>; Fri, 4 Jan 91 12:46:51 -0800 To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To:<laird@BBN.COM> <<< 550 (USER) Unknown user name in "laird@BBN.COM" 550 laird@BBN.COM... User unknown 451 avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error avri@CLEARPOINT.COM... reply: read error 421 dockmaster.ncsc.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL 421 va.nkw.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk 421 nsl.dec.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with jove.pa.dec.com 451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... timeout waiting for input 451 drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error drawson@HOBBES.TYMNET.COM... reply: read error 421 sccgate.scc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with sccgate.scc.com 421 a.isi.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by a.ISI.EDU 421 cs.ucl.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk 421 oasys.dt.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with oasys.dt.navy.mil 421 peocu1.navy.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with PEOCU1.NAVY.MIL 421 enh.nist.gov.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with enh.nist.gov 421 mickey.imsd.contel.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by MICKEY.IMSD.CONTEL.COM 421 uv4.eglin.af.mil.tcp..Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with uv6.eglin.af.mil 421 ima.isc.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with ima.ima.isc.com 421 huachuca-emh8.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection refused by HUACHUCA-EMH8.ARMY.MIL 421 vaxa.nerc-keyworth.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed outWestine & Postel [Page 14]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk 421 gdr.bath.ac.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with nsfnet-relay.ac.uk 421 ccint1.rsre.mod.uk.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with ccint1.rsre.mod.uk 550 m_ellison@TOOK.LKG.DEC.COM... Host unknown 421 hqafsc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with HQAFSC-VAX.AF.MIL 421 nic.nordu.net.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with nic.nordu.net 421 aedc-vax.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with AEDC-VAX.AF.MIL 421 letterkenn-emh1.army.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with LETTERKENN-EMH1.ARMY.MIL 421 dumle.kommhuset.se.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with sunic.sunet.se 421 cis.uab.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with cisa.CIS.UAB.EDU 421 server.af.mil.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with server.af.mil 421 issun3.stc.nl.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with issun3.stc.nl 421 cs.uiuc.edu.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with uiucdcsm-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu -------------************************************************************************F.2. Failed Mail Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 5:00:40 EST From: BBN Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@BBN.COM> Sender: mmdf@BBN.COM Subject: Failed mail (msg.aa09055) To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU After 12 days (276 hours), your message could not be fully delivered. It failed to be received by the following address(es): mfidelma@cc5.bbn.com (host: cc5.bbn.com) (queue: smtp) Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 15]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.3. Waiting Mail To: RELAY Mail System (MMDF) <mmdf@RELAY.CS.NET> Cc: owner-ietf <@RELAY.CS.NET:owner-ietf@VENERA.ISI.EDU> Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: Waiting mail (msg.aa00720) In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 02 Oct 90 07:45:14 -0400. <9010021201.AA06288@venera.isi.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:11:03 PDT From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> > After 5 days (105 hours), your message has not yet been > fully delivered. Attempts to deliver the message will continue > for 2 more days. No further action is required by you. > > Delivery attempts are still pending for the following address(es): > > @zix.gmd.dbp.de:weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de > (host: zix.gmd.dbp.de)(queue: dfn) > > Problems usually are due to service interruptions at the receiving > machine. Less often, they are caused by the communication system.************************************************************************F.4. What Started Out as a Sublist with No Active Users a. Error Report Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 22:13:12 +0200 From: MAILER-DAEMON@inria.inria.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: owner-ietf ----- Transcript of session follows ----- While talking to mailhost.Gipsi.FR: >>> RCPT To:<ietf@GIPSI.FR> <<< 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown ----------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 16]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 b. Message Sent to Postmaster TO: Postmaster@gisi.gipsi.fr Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Date: Tue, 11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, I have received numerous error messages like this for over a week. There appears to be a mailbox on your exploder that is invalid, please delete it. Thanks, --Ann~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ c. Reply From Postmaster From: edmonde@ubu.gipsi.fr (Edmonde Duteurtre) To: westine In-Reply-To: Ann Westine's message of Tue, 11 Sep 90 09:56:20 PDT <9009111656.AA19730@venera.isi.edu> Subject: 550 <ietf@GIPSI.FR>... User unknown Hello On our site, the bind@gipsi.fr, snmp@gipsi.fr, ietf@gipsi.fr and the nameddroppers@gipsi.fr mailed only one person: prindevi@gipsi.fr but this person has leaved our company, and you should cancel this addresses. I think we get enough informations through the news. I think you should cancel us (ietf@Gipsi.FR) on the mailing list ietf.************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 17]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.5. Sublists without local ownership In this error message there was not much to go on except the words IETF and the name of the host from where the mailer-daemon sent the error. Using that clue the mailing list was searched for that host name (SATURN). It was a sublist. It appears that there is something internally wrong with the sublist and this error should have gone to the postmaster or owner of the IETF@SATURN.ACC.COM list instead of the IETF owner. A message was sent to the postmaster. No reply was received, but the condition was fixed.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ a. Error Report Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 14:42:57 EDT From: MAILER-DAEMON%saturn.ACC.COM@salt.acc.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 13 To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- /p/news/ietf/21770: Permission denied554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf"... unknown mailer error 13~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b. Message Sent to Postmaster To: Postmaster@saturn.acc.com cc: ietf-request Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Subject: 554 "| /usr/local/news -s ietf" ... unknown mailer error 13 In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 03 Oct 90 14:42:57 -0400. <9010031842.AA01601@saturn.acc.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 90 10:53:02 PDT From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, Please fix the problem with the following mailbox "ietf@SATURN.ACC.COM". Thanks, Ann************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 18]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.6. Repetitive Error Every Couple of Months from Same Host a. Message Dated August 90 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 90 09:21:26 -0700 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object (permanent failure) 554 <netrix::gillin>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <erlang::chiu> (sent) <netrix::gillin> (bounced) <erlang::rama> (sent)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b. Message Dated October 90 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>. Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <erlang::chiu> (bounced) <netrix::gillin> (sent) <erlang::rama> (sent)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 19]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 c. Message Dated December 90 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 21:40:47 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object (permanent failure) 554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ d. Message Dated December 90 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 90 23:01:21 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object (permanent failure) 554 <gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <mogul@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent) mogul@acetes (sent) <gillin%netrix.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (bounced) <chiu%erlang.dec@DECWRL.DEC.COM> (sent)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 20]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 e. Message Dated January 91 Date: Sun, 6 Jan 91 17:05:53 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "bigfut", during mail delivery to <BIGFUT::CALLON>. Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is:(can't decypher error code) 550 <Callon@BIGFUT.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknown************************************************************************F.7. Host Unknown or Sublist The address "lucb-ml@OPUS" is not an Internet style domain name. The exploder ietf@CS.McGILL.CA has this address on its sublist, and CSA.McGILL.CA does not recognize this host. (This error should have gone to the sublist owner at CS.MCGILL.CA). Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 19:45:14 -0400 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@oliver.cs.mcgill.ca> Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 "Luc Boulianne" <lucb-ml@opus>... Host unknown************************************************************************F.8. "HOST UNKNOWN" and the Host Really Is Known Usually a "host unknown" report is not acted on unless it is repeated over a period of several days. In many cases the hosts really do exist, but they're just down for a couple of days, or there are network problems reaching it (or it's name serrver). Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 08:45:56 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: owner-los-nettos@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 nrc.com.tcp... 550 Host unknown 550 IHM@NRC.COM... Host unknownWestine & Postel [Page 21]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WHATHOST CHECK westine 28% whathost nrc.com Host: nrc.com ==> 129.216.200.51 westine 82% whathost 129.216.200.51 Host: aztec.NRC.COM ==> 129.216.200.51************************************************************************F.9. Host Unknown and MXed to Another Host. DNS says AMES will forward mail for ADAPT, but mailer at AMES says ADAPT is unknown. Should ask postmaster at AMES to fix either mailer or DNS data. Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:39:35 PST From: unet!Mailer-Daemon@ames.arc.nasa.gov Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- bad system name: ADAPT uux failed ( 68 ) 550 george@ADAPT.NET.COM... Host unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ westine 86% dig adapt.net.com any ; <<>> DiG <<>> adapt.net.com any ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 0, Addit: 2 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; adapt.net.com, type = ANY, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: adapt.net.com IN MX 10 ames.arc.nasa.gov ; 84029 adapt.net.com IN MX 20 tymix.tymnet.com ; 84029 ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS: ames.arc.nasa.gov IN A 128.102.18.3 ; 158777 tymix.tymnet.com IN A 131.146.2.1 ; 86400************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 22]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.10. User Unknown Most "User Unknown" error messages listed individually on the main list get deleted. Those on a sublist, require a message to the postmaster or list maintainer. They are asked to delete the invalid user mailbox from their local list.************************************************************************F.10.1. Add User but Address Fails This is a case where the recipient was checking to see if his mailbox was already on the list and if not to readd him. He was readded to the list. A "user unknown" error message was received on the confirming message that was sent notifying recipient that he had been added.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ a. Message Sent to User And Postmaster To: postmaster@janus.enet.decl.com, postmaster@decwrl.dec.com Cc: westine, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com Subject: RE: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 10:15:40 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Stewart and Postmaster, I readded your name to the IETF list but there seems to be problems with connections to DECnet hosts right now. I have seen lots of errors like this lately. Postmaster, please check into this. JANUS is not the only host with an error, there are other hosts like this in trouble. For example. From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>. Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answerWestine & Postel [Page 23]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <erlang::chiu> (bounced) <netrix::gillin> (sent) <erlang::rama> (sent) ------- Thank you, Ann To: "Stewart Bryant, RE02-G/H2, DTN: 830 4682" <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: dist list In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 06 Nov 90 03:02:09 0800. <9011061056.AA11777@decpa.pa.dec.com> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 13:54:23 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> Hi Stewart, > Please will you check that I have not been deleted > from this distribution list. > > My email address is > bryant@janus.enet.dec.com I readded you to the list. Thanks, Ann ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 06 Nov 90 17:25:15 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Returned mail: User unknown ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "janus", during mail delivery to <JANUS::BRYANT>. Remote error code is 0x7e81d2, message is: %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport NM (can't decypher error code) 550 <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>... User unknown ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> (bounced)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 24]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991b. Message From Postmaster Return-path: vixie@wrl.dec.com Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 PST To: westine@ISI.EDU cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> From: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com> Anne, This was a transient. Please let me know if any other .enet.dec.com nodes are still unreachable. Paul~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~c. Another Message to Postmaster To: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com> cc: postmaster@janus.enet.dec.com, postmaster@wrl.dec.com, bryant@janus.enet.dec.com Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Subject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com> In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Nov 90 16:24:37 -0800. <9011080024.AA28353@volition.pa.dec.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 11:23:39 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Paul, There are a few other error message that I received last week and they seem to reoccur every couple of months. Here is an example. What does this error mean? Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 05:02:53 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>. Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknownWestine & Postel [Page 25]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <erlang::chiu> (bounced) <netrix::gillin> (sent) <erlang::rama> (sent) <netrix::gillin> (sent) <erlang::rama> (sent) ----------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d. Message From PostmasterDate: Thu, 08 Nov 90 17:10:02 PSTTo: westine@ISI.EDUSubject: Re: <bryant@janus.enet.dec.com>From: Paul A Vixie <vixie@wrl.dec.com>Anne,This error: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>. Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ...means that the person on ERLANG:: has forwarded their mail to asystem that ERLANG does not know about. Decnet mail is not store-and-forward, so decwrl (as smtp-to-decnet gateway) sees the end-systemerror. Trying to be helpful, it sends it back to you.My advice is to delete any addresses you have trouble with, if they arein the .enet.dec.com subdomain.paul************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 26]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.10.2. No Such User Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:05 CDT From: PMDF Mail Server <Postmaster@crcvms.unl.edu> Subject: Undeliverable mail To: westine@ISI.EDU The message could not be delivered to: Addressee: gale Reason: %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user GALE at node CRCVMS************************************************************************F.11. No Transcript Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:21:03 -0700 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure To: owner-ietf To: owner-ietf To: westine -------------- <text deleted>************************************************************************F.12. Looping - Too Many Hops Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:59 PDT From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@jessica.stanford.edu> Subject: Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail To:<@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu, @jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu,@jessica.stanford.edu, @jessica.stanford.edu:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 sendall: too many hops (17 max) Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09128; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:36 PDT Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu (5.59/25-eef) id AA17687; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:31 PDT Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU (5.59/inc-1.0)id AA09124; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:28 PDT Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.eduWestine & Postel [Page 27]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 (5.59/25-eef) id AA17674; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:22 PDT Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09120; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:19 PDT Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu (5.59/25-eef) id AA17658; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:13 PDT Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09116; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:11 PDT Received: from Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu (5.59/25-eef) id AA17645; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:05 PDT Received: from Jessica.Stanford.EDU by Ahwahnee.Stanford.EDU (5.59/inc-1.0) id AA09112; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:08:03 PDT Received: from VENERA.ISI.EDU by jessica.stanford.edu (5.59/25-eef) id AA17625; Wed, 7 Nov 90 18:07:50 PDT Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA29996>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:49 -0800 Received-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800 Received: from NRI.RESTON.VA.US by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA29992>; Wed, 7 Nov 90 15:45:45 -0800 Received: from nri by NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US id aa13139;7 Nov 90 18:26 To: Frank Kastenholz <kasten%europa.interlan.com@relay.cs.net> Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu Subject: Re: IETF mailing list Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 18:26:53 -0500 From: vcerf@NRI.Reston.VA.US************************************************************************F.13. No Postmaster a. Error Message Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 18:40:58 EST From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster... User unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 28]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 b. Checking Hostname and Address westine 37% dig osi3.ncsl.nist.gov any ;; QUESTIONS: ;; osi3.ncsl.nist.gov, type = ANY, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.48.108 ; 86400 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov IN A 129.6.51.1 ; 86400~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ c. Checking For Users westine 49% mconnect OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV connecting to host OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV (0x6c300681), port 0x1900 connection open 220 osi3.ncsl.nist.gov sendmail 4.0/NIST(rbj/dougm) ready at Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:58:49 EST expn ietf 250-Dale Walters <walters> 250-Richard Colella <colella@emu.ncsl.nist.gov> 250 Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ d. Checking For Administrators westine 44% whois osi3.ncsl.nist.gov National Bureau of Standards (ICST-OSI3) Hostname: OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV Nicknames: OSI3.ICST.NBS.GOV,ICST-OSI3.ARPA Address: 129.6.48.108 System: SUN-3/160 running UNIX Coordinator: Montgomery, Douglas C. (DCM5) dougm@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV (301) 975-3630 Record last updated on 17-May-89.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 29]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 e. Message Sent to Coordinator From westine@venera.isi.edu Thu Nov 8 13:58:40 1990 Posted-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST To: dougm@osi.ncsl.nist.gov Cc: westine@venera.isi.edu Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster... User unknown Reply-To: westine@venera.isi.edu Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 10:59:30 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Doug, If the Postmaster is "unknown" please delete him from your exploder list "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov". I have been receiving error messages like this one for several days now. If I don't hear from you, I will have to delete the above mailbox. Ann > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down > 550 Postmaster... User unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ f. Message From Coordinator Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:34:02 EST From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov> Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Sub-Organization: National Computer Systems Laboratory To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: RE: 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster... User unknown Cc: staff@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov I think I have found out what is wrong. For some reason (we can discuss this below) your exploder is sending IETF mail to our exploder (ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov) through the machine osi.ncsl.nist.gov. Now due to a recent subnet reconfiguration and subsequent lack of update to our DNS servers, the DNS was returning an incorrect address for osi3. Thus IETF mail would be sent to OSI, which would try to forward it to OSI3 (using the wrong address). OSI would think that OSI3 was down and dump the message, trying to send a notice to Postmaster. OSI doesn't have an aliase for Postmaster and thus the second error message that you saw.Westine & Postel [Page 30]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 These two problems have been fixed on OSI. Now the question is what address you have in your distribution list that would cause this mail to go through OSI in the first place. I guess you might have something like "ietf%osi3@osi.ncsl.nist.gov." The other interesting point about your list is that we receive IETF mail to our exploder directly from venera. Thus I suspect that there are two entries for OSI3 on your distribution list. One that gets relayed through OSI and one that points directly to OSI3. If this is the case please deleted everything except the "ietf@osi3.ncsl.nist.gov." address. If this is not the case or if there are other problems let me know.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ g. My Reply Back Here are all the addresses I have on the IETF list under NIST.GOV. ietf@OSI3.NCSL.NIST.GOV, mills@OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV I'll deleted "mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov". Here are two others at NIST hunt@ENH.NIST.GOV, sting@CAM.NIST.GOV By the way, on the following message, it looks like the Mailer-Daemon message went from OSI.ncsl.nist.gov to enh.nist.gov to venera.isi.edu. --AnnWestine & Postel [Page 31]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 Return-Path: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov Received-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id <AA19131>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:11 PST Posted-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST Received: from enh.nist.gov by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA03448>; Thu, 8 Nov 90 12:44:01 -0800 Received: from OSI.NCSL.NIST.GOV by ENH.NIST.GOV; Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:43 EDT Received: by osi.ncsl.nist.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB14654; Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:39:54 EST From: Mailer-Daemon@osi.ncsl.nist.gov Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU Message-Id: <9011082039.AB14654@osi.ncsl.nist.gov> X-Envelope-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 421 osi3: Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows -----~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ h. Another Problem .Forward From: Doug Montgomery <dougm@warthog.ncsl.nist.gov> Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: 421 osi3:Host osi3 is down 550 Postmaster.. User unknown Deleting the mills@osi.ncsl.nist.gov entry should fix your problems. Mills has a .forward to osi3, thus explaining why IETF mail was going ---> OSI ---> OSI3. I checked OSI's sendmail.cf and it is relaying through enh. This, though has nothing to do with the previous problem. I flushed the queue of IETF mail on OSI waiting to go to OSI3. I don't think you should see anymore bounced messages. Sorry that our local problems were causing you grief .... let me know if it happens again.************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 32]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.14. File Over Allocation Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with ames.arc.nasa.gov Posted-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 90 10:35:49 -0700 To: owner-ietf ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> QUIT <<< 421 sage.acc.com SMTP Service not available: insufficient disk space. 451 bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error bboard.ietf@SAGE.ACC.COM... reply: read error************************************************************************F.15. File Deleted Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 14:21:57 EDT From: Daemon <daemon@ccj.bbn.com> Subject: Undeliverable mail To: westine Mail could not be delivered to the following address(es): /usr/databases/bugs/vaxmail@ccj.bbn.com: No such file or directory************************************************************************F.16. Strange Postmaster a. Message Forwarded to IETF-Request Forwarded: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:09 PST Forwarded: westine Forwarded: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org Forwarded: galvin@TIS.COM Return-Path: galvin@TIS.COM Received-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id <AA03679>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:07 PST Posted-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500 Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA26292>; Sun, 17 Feb 91 17:48:01 -0800 Received: from TIS.COM by TIS.COM (4.1/SUN-5.64DB)Westine & Postel [Page 33]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 id AA04098; Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:13 EST Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM> To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: Failed Mail to IETF Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500 From: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM> ------- Forwarded Message Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org> From: galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM> To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28 Subject: Can't Find MailCenter! <text deleted>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b. Problem Reported to MITRE To: postmaster@mbunix.mitre.org Cc: westine, galvin@TIS.COM Subject: RE: Can't Find MailCenter! Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Date: Thu, 21 Feb 91 14:31:01 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi, We're getting this problem again. Please fix. Thank you. Ann ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sun, 17 Feb 91 20:48:12 -0500 From: James M Galvin <galvin@TIS.COM> To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: Failed Mail to IETF ------- Forwarded Message Message-ID: <9102160528.AA27189@mbunix.mitre.org> From: galvin@tis.com <galvin@TIS.COM> To: Bill_Anderson.G113_MAIL@qmgate.mitre.org Date: 15 Feb 91 21:28:28 Subject: Can't Find MailCenter!Westine & Postel [Page 34]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 GatorMail-Q Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/ Received: by qmgate; 15 Feb 91 21:28:25 Received: by mbunix.mitre.org (5.57/4.7) id AA25128; Fri, 15 Feb 91 21:26:46 EST Received: by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA17839>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:12 -0800 Posted-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500 Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800 Received: from TIS.COM by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA17833>; Fri, 15 Feb 91 08:45:09 -0800 Message-Id: <9102151645.AA26445@TIS.COM> Reply-To: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com> To: Megan Davies <mdavies@nri.reston.va.us> Cc: ietf@venera.isi.edu Subject: Re: 1st PRELIMINARY AGENDA/ST. LOUIS In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 14 Feb 91 17:44:13 EST. <9102141744.aa15663@NRI.NRI.Reston.VA.US> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 11:45:16 -0500 From: James M Galvin <galvin@tis.com> <text deleted>************************************************************************F.17. Message Too Large Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 17:50:10 MDT From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable To: <westine@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Message is too large; 50000 bytes max 554 olear@niwot.scd.ucar.edu... Service unavailable************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 35]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.18. Vacation Messages a. Case 1 Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 15:28:30 PDT From: David Wasley <dlw@violet.berkeley.edu> Subject: I am away from e-mail This_Message_Brought_To_You_By: the vacation program Apparently-To: owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu I am away from e-mail until October 13. If your message requires immediate attention, please contact one of the people below: Network problems: Austin Shelton <austins@violet.Berkeley.EDU> Network information: Bill Wells <netinfo@violet.Berkeley.EDU> Network installation: Jim Allison <jca@violet.Berkeley.EDU> If you're really desparate, leave me voice-mail at (415) 642-3478. Thanks for your patience! David Wasley, U C Berkeley~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b. Case 2 Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 18:17:12 EST From: MAILER-DAEMON@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1 To: <mmm-people-request@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- sh: vacation: not found554 "|vacation farber"... unknown mailer error 1************************************************************************F.19. LocaL Configuration Errors Date: Tue, 14 Aug 90 00:36:51 -0400 From: MAILER-DAEMON@nyu.edu Subject: Returned mail: Local configuration error To: <owner-ietf> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 <russell@NYU.EDU>,<ittai@NYU.EDU>... Local configuration error************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 36]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.20. Service Unavailable Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 13:00:39 EDT From: Mailer-Daemon@omni.eng.clemson.edu Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable To: <owner-ietf> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Connected to eng.clemson.edu: >>> HELO omni <<< 553 omni host name configuration error 554 <gkrishn@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU>... Service unavailable ----- Unsent message follows -----************************************************************************F.21. "Bad File Number" To: <owner-ietf> From: The UTCS Post Office <postmaster@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> Subject: Delivery problems with your mail Your message has been received by the University of Toronto Computing Services Postal System. A copy of it has been returned to you because of difficulties encountered while attempting to deliver your mail. The following errors occurred while attempting delivery: <smtp madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca oattes@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca 1609>: 128.100.102.10: 550 <nsr@madhaus.utcs.utoronto.ca>... User unknown: Bad file number************************************************************************F.22. Cannot Append Date: Sat, 11 Aug 90 14:51:57 PDT From: MAILER-DAEMON@uunet.uu.net (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable To: uunet!venera.isi.edu!owner-ietf@uunet.UU.NET ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail: /var/spool/mail/cslater: cannot append Mail saved in dead.letter 554 cslater... Service unavailable************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 37]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.23. Error Creating Network Link "erlang::chang... Host unknown" Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 12:34:20 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred To: <@decpa.pa.dec.com:owner-ietf@venera.isi.edu> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::CHIU>. Remote error code is 0x7e803a, message is: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node CHIU -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown 554 <erlang::chiu>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) mail11: connect: Connect failed, Node unreachable (temporary failure) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <erlang::chiu> (bounced) <netrix::gillin> (queued, will retry) <erlang::rama> (sent) ----- Unsent message follows -----************************************************************************F.24. Not a Typewriter Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 19:36:47 -0700 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: owner-ietf ----- Transcript of session follows ----- get_status: Not a typewriter (mail11 operating system error) 451 <gray@netrix.enet.dec.com>... Operating system error mail11: connect: Connect failed, Unrecognized object (permanent failure) 554 <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM>... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server)Westine & Postel [Page 38]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <gray@netrix.enet.dec.com> (bounced) <bansal@NETRIX.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced) ----- Unsent message follows -----************************************************************************F.25. "MTA Congestion" Date: Tue, 7 Aug 90 22:37:48 -0700 To: ietf-request From: DFN Gateway <postmaster%zix.gmd.dbp.de@RELAY.CS.NET> Subject: DFN Mail Network -- failed mail Mail Failure Diagnostics: Message Recipients: weidenhammer@vax.hmi.dbp.de: MTA congestion************************************************************************F.26. Local Forwarding Not Working To: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU Subject: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> Hi, Would you mind checking into this error message before I delete this person from our list. I think it may be an internal forwarding problem at MIT. If not let me know if there is a new address or if I should delete this one. --Ann ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 12:34:01 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: owner-dartnet@ISI.EDU Subject: Returned mail: User unknownWestine & Postel [Page 39]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To:<dukach@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU> <<< 550 /u/dukach/.forward: line 0: tabasco.lcs.mit.edu... User unknown 550 dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- To: westine@ISI.EDU Cc: postmaster@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: dukach@PTT.LCS.MIT.EDU... User unknown In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 01 Nov 90 13:20:53 -0800. <9011012120.AA19211@venera.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 17:16:44 -0500 From: jrd@ALLSPICE.LCS.MIT.EDU Ann, Please don't delete Semyon. I'll get him to fix his configuration. Thanks, Chuck************************************************************************F.27. No Such File or Directory Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 17:57:08 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@quake.stanford.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2 To: <westine@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- <<< RCPT To:<phil@quake.stanford.edu> <<< RCPT To:<rick@quake.stanford.edu> <<< DATA mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/phil -: No such file or directory mail: Creating /usr/spool/mail/rick -: No such file or directory Mail saved in dead.letter 554 <phil@quake.stanford.edu>,<rick@quake.stanford.edu>... unknown mailer error************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 40]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.28. User Account Terminated Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 18:21:23 EDT From: MAILER-DAEMON@theory.TN.CORNELL.EDU Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: <westine@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Connected to DEVVAX.TN.CORNELL.EDU: >>> RCPT To:<alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu> <<< 550 <alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu>... User unknown 550 alison@devvax.tn.cornell.edu... User unknown************************************************************************F.29. Machine Terminated Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 19:33:26 EDT From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@edn-vax.dca.mil> Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown To: <westine@ISI.EDU> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 edn-unix.dca.mil.tcp... 550 Host unknown 550 jsl@edn-unix.dca.mil... Host unknown ----- Unsent message follows -----************************************************************************F.30. Couldn't Make Final Delivery. a. Case 1 Date: 29 Aug 90 13:17:34 EST From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@ecf.ncsl.nist.gov> Subject: Mail Delivery Problem To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf> ----Reason for mail failure follows---- Sending mail to recipient(s) Nakassis : Couldn't make final delivery. %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening USER2:[000000]NAKASSIS.DIR as output~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 41]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 b. Case 2 Date: 8 Oct 90 20:24:32 EDT From: "SMTP MAILER" <postmaster@imo-uvax.dca.mil> Subject: Mail Delivery Problem To: "owner-ietf" <owner-ietf@ISI.EDU> ----Reason for mail failure follows---- Sending mail to recipient(s) morrisd : Couldn't make final delivery. %MRGATE-E-MRFROMVMS, Error transferring message to Message Router************************************************************************F.31. Unknown ".ARPA" Hosts Without Updated Hostname WHATHOST and DIG show nothing for DCA-EMS.ARPA. There is no referral to the new hostname. "WHOIS" DCA-EMS came up with the new hostname. From: MAILER-DAEMON@ISI.EDU (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Host Name Lookup Failure Posted-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:59:34 -0800 To: owner-internet-research-group@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Coviello@DCA-EMS.ARPA,Elliott@DCA-EMS.ARPA, Hingorani@DCA-EMS.ARPA... Host unknown westine 45% whathost dca-ems.arpa Unknown Host: dca-ems.arpa, errno 0, h_errno 1 : Unknown host~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 42]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 westine 44% whois dca-ems Defense Communications Agency (DCA) (DCA-EMS) Office Automation Division Code H610 Washington, DC 20305-2000 Hostname: DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL Address: 26.1.0.76 System: BBN-C/70 running UNIX Host Administrator: Wilkinson, Avis D. (ADW) AWilkins@DDN-CONUS.DDN.MIL (703) 848-4867 DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL users send E-Mail to AWilkins@DCA-EMS.DCA.MIL Record last updated on 10-Sep-90.************************************************************************F.32. Messages From an Internet Relay to Commercial Mail Systems a. Message Too Large Date: 13 Feb 91 04:15:22 EST From: Electronic Postmaster <POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM> To: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> Subject: Undeliverable message Re: ? EMDITB - Mail Delivery Failure. Message too large. >EPX [74360,3202] Internet Monthly Report Your message could not be delivered as addressed. --- Returned message ---~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 43]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 b. Invalid Parameters Date: 13 Feb 91 05:34 UT From: "X.400 Gateway" <MAILER-DAEMON@sprint.com> Subject: MHS NonDelivery Report To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU Report from domain /PRMD=/ADMD=telemail/C=us/: FAILED delivery to: 1 Recipient ORName:/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/ Translates to:/PN=tony.y.mazraani/DD.TS=SM55/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US /@sprint.com Reason: unable to transfer Diagnostic: invalid parameters~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ c. Looping From: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu Message-Type: Delivery Report Date: Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000 Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi... This report relates to your message: Why WAN multi... of Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000 Your message was not delivered to Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu for the following reason: Message looping detected (please contact local administrator) *** The following information is directed towards the local *** administrator and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by mta pilot.cs.wisc.edu * in /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/ * at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:35 +0000 * * Converted toRFC 822 at pilot.cs.wisc.edu * at Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:34:41 +0000 *Westine & Postel [Page 44]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/;<9012121704.AA08993@decpa.pa.dec] * Content-Identifier: Why WAN multi... * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:56 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:47 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:21:48 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:55 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:05:46 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 15:22:57 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=xnren/ADMD= /C=us/; * arrival Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000 action Relayed * Recipient-Info: Allan.Cargille@pilot.cs.wisc.edu, * /G=Allan/S=Cargille/OU=cs/O=uw-madison/PRMD=xnren/ADMD= * /C=us/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Loop-Detected (3); * last trace () Wed, 12 Dec 1990 11:04:50 +0000; ****** End of administration information************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 45]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.33. Incomplete DNS Data on Host Date: Fri, 14 Dec 90 19:37:51 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@shark.cs.fau.edu> To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 megasys.com (TCP)... 550 Host unknown 550 <pax@MEGASYS.COM>... Host unknown (Valid name but no data [address]) westine 27% dig megasys.com any ; <<>> DiG <<>> megasys.com any ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY , status: NOERROR, id: 6 ;; flags: qr rd ra Ques: 1, Ans: 2, Auth: 2, Addit: 3 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; megasys.com, type = ANY, class = IN ;; ANSWERS: megasys.com IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786 megasys.com IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786 ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS: MEGASYS.COM IN NS UUNET.UU.NET ; 172786 MEGASYS.COM IN NS seismo.CSS.GOV ; 172786 ;; ADDITIONAL RECORDS: UUNET.UU.NET IN A 192.48.96.2 ; 447968 UUNET.UU.NET IN A 137.39.1.2 ; 170920 seismo.CSS.GOV IN A 192.12.141.25 ; 172786************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 46]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.34. Sublist Problem From: fischer@math.ufl.edu Posted-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST Received: from gimme.math.ufl.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA15131>; Mon, 17 Dec 90 09:28:24 -0800 Received: by gimme.math.ufl.edu (4.1/4.03) id AA05948; Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 EST To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU Subject: here we go again: please release me, let me go... Fifth time now(?) I try this every couple of months now, figuring you may be hoplesslly backed up. Can you remove me from the ietf list? I may be there as either: fischer@math.ufl.edu or netadm@math.ufl.edu I would appreciate a confirmation message: I'm ready to use crontab for these mailings. Many Thanks, Randy Fischer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To: fischer@math.ufl.edu cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, postmaster@ISI.EDU Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Subject: Re: here we go again: please release me, let me go... In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 17 Dec 90 12:28:23 -0500. <9012171728.AA05948@gimme.math.ufl.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 90 10:15:36 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@venera.isi.edu> Hi Randy, I remember your request, and I also remember telling you that you are not on our list (at least individually). There is an exploder "netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU" maintained at UFL.EDU. You need to check with the postmaster to see if you are on their list. If this is not the case, here are the only other addresses I have from UFL.EDUWestine & Postel [Page 47]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 ceben@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU, esj@UFL.EDU, FCLA@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU, netadm@MATH.UFL.EDU, POKE@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU, There is another possibility, perhaps you have a pointer to a mailbox somewhere else? Regards, Ann~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Operator <root@math.ufl.edu> To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU, westine@ISI.EDU Subject: re: done at last: please release me, let me go... Many, many thanks for the reply: I did not, somehow, see your previous reply -- perhaps you forwarded it to someone at UFL.EDU instead of MATH.UFL.EDU? Or I missed it in the flow of mail I am trying to abate. No matter. At any rate "netadm@math.ufl.edu" is indeed a local exploder, aliased at the moment to myself and one of my assistants. It is local to the "math.ufl.edu" subdomain, and not to "ufl.edu" as your records indicate. I am the postmaster of the "math.ufl.edu", and you should be able to verify "math.ufl.edu" has an MX record pointing to "mathlab.math.ufl.edu". I am therefore mailing to you as root from that machine. Please remove "netadm@math.ufl.edu" from your list. I have quite enjoyed the discussions, but the volume been overwhelming. Thanks very much for your prompt reply, Appreciatively, -Randy Fischer <root@math.ufl.edu> <fischer@math.ufl.edu>************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 48]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.35. File Protection Problem From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642 09-Feb-1991 0904" <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com> To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU Subject: Request to add to IETF I seem to have suddenly dropped off the IETF distribution list. I have not received any IETF mail since 9-Jan-91. Could you please ensure that I am still in the distribution list. -Raj Jain~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642 09-Feb-1991 0904" <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com> cc: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU, ietf-request Reply-To: westine@isi.edu Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 09 Feb 91 06:07:15 -0800. <9102091407.AA06473@decpa.pa.dec.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 11:17:41 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@rwa.isi.edu> Hi Raj, I will readd you to the IETF list. However, if I receive more error messages like this, then I must take your name off the list again. I've sent messages to the postmaster at DEC but the problem isn't corrected. Your address isn't the only one, there's CALLON and a few others.Westine & Postel [Page 49]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 Maybe you can check into this. Here's the header from one of the many error messages I received. Regards, --Ann Date: Wed, 9 Jan 91 17:04:41 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "erlang", during mail delivery to <ERLANG::JAIN>. Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation (can't decypher error code) 550 <jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM>... User unknown ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <jain@ERLANG.DEC.COM> (bounced)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 17:54:20 EST From: "Raj Jain, LKG1-2/A19, DTN: 226-7642, 508-486-7642 12-Feb-1991 1751" <jain@erlang.enet.dec.com> To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: Request to add to IETF The error message that you sent is unfortunately my mistake and has nothing to do with DECWRL. One day I reset protection on all my files and directories and didn't realize that even the system did not have the privilege to write mail messages on my disk. I discovered it only after several people sent phone messages to me. Thanks for adding my name again. I will try to be careful. -Raj************************************************************************Westine & Postel [Page 50]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991F.36. User Unknown a. Request to be Readded to IETF List Date: Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 PST From: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548 11-Feb-1991 1301" <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com> To: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Subject: add me to the ietf list (again) Hi - Could I be added to the ietf distribution list (again). I must have been dropped from the list somehow. This happened to me before the last ietf - I had to get my name reregistered then, too. Thanks, Paul Ciarfella ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ b. Message to User Regarding Readd and Previous Problems To: "Paul Ciarfella DTN 227-3548 Outside 508 952-3548 11-Feb-1991 1301" <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com> Cc: ietf-request@ISI.EDU Reply-To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: add me to the ietf list (again) In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 11 Feb 91 10:03:54 -0800. <9102111803.AA11116@decpa.pa.dec.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 11:05:46 PST From: Ann Westine <westine@ISI.EDU> Hi Paul, Every couple of months I have lots of error messags from several individual mailboxes on ENET.DEC.COM. Here is a typical one. Since I cannot reach you I am forced to delete your mailbox. I have sent several messages to the postmaster at DEC but nothing has been corrected. Perhaps you can look into this. --AnnWestine & Postel [Page 51]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id <AA11360>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:19 PST Posted-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800 Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA08309>; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:53:17 -0800 Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA12106; Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 19:42:03 -0800 From: MAILER-DAEMON@decwrl.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <9012120342.AA12106@decpa.pa.dec.com> To: owner-ietf@ISI.EDU ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail11: input timeout reading remote object get_status: Connection timed out (temporary failure) mail11: Error from DECnet MAIL object on node "levers", during mail delivery to <LEVERS::CIARFELLA>. Remote error code is 0x7e81fa, message is: %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed -SYSTEM-W-DIRALLOC, allocation failure on directory file (can't decypher error code) 550 <ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM>... User unknown ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- <hayden@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (queued, will retry) <ciarfella@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (bounced) <anil@LEVERS.ENET.DEC.COM> (sent)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Westine & Postel [Page 52]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 1991 c. Response from User Regarding Problem Return-Path: ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (4.1/4.0.3-4) id <AA26215>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:25 PST Posted-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST Received: from decpa.pa.dec.com by venera.isi.edu (5.61/5.61+local) id <AA04585>; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:22 -0800 Received: by decpa.pa.dec.com; id AA14420; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:00 -0800 Received: from levers.enet; by decwrl.enet; Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST Date: Wed, 13 Feb 91 13:51:02 PST From: "I'll die for my country but I won't kill for Texaco 13-Feb-1991 1641" <ciarfella@levers.enet.dec.com> To: westine@ISI.EDU Subject: re: add me to the ietf list (again) Hi Ann, Could we try another address for me? The old address has been plagued by disk problems which might explain why the mail is not getting delivered. The new address to register is: ciarfella@quiver.enet.dec.com I will check into the problem on this end. Sorry about the tone of my first message but this has been a never-ending problem for over 8 months. Thank you, Paul C************************************************************************5. Security Considerations Security issues are not discussed in this memo.Westine & Postel [Page 53]
RFC 1211 Problems with Mailing Lists March 19916. Authors' Addresses Ann Westine USC - Information Sciences Institute 4676 Admiralty Way Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695 Phone: 213-822-1511 EMail: Westine@ISI.EDU Jon Postel USC - Information Sciences Institute 4676 Admiralty Way Marina del Rey, CA 90292-6695 Phone: 213-822-1511 EMail: Postel@ISI.EDUWestine & Postel [Page 54]
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