SpeakerIwouldIhadgonetoIndianaUniversitytostudymusicwiththethoughtinthebackofmyheadofmaybetakinganactingclassbecauseI’vebeenintheschoolplaymysenioryearandratherenjoyedit.AndthisiswhatIdid.AndwhileIwasstudyingmusicforthefirsttwoyearsofmycollegecareeratIndiana,Iwasalsosortofhangingoutwithalotofactorsandtryingoutforplaysandgettinglittlepartsandworkinguptobiggerparts.Andafteracoupleofyears,Ithought,youknow,theseareboth24houradaykindofdisciplineandI’dbetterchooseone.SoIchosetheeasieroneactingandactuallywasn’teasyatthetime.Itseemedactuallymoreimpossible.ItwasjustthatIcouldIcouldseemyfutureasaasaconcertpianistandcomposer,whichiswhatIwasinterestedindoingandconducting.Anditwasaverybleakfuturewithmediocritywrittenalloverit.AndwhereasIcouldn’tseetheendofthetunnelwithacting,itwasthisenormousdarkvoidintowhichIwasineluctablydrawn.Meanwhile,onceIhadmadethiskindofvocationaldecisiontopursuetheartofthedrama,theVietnamWarwasragingandmydraftboardwouldn’tletmeswitchtoaproperactingschool.SoIhadtofinishoutmymyfouryearsatIndiana,afterwhichthelotterywasimposedandthecutoffnumberthefirstyearwas195andIwas196.Andthat’showcomeIgottogotodramaschool.Inonepiece.IcametoNewYork,auditionedmuchtomysurprise,gotinandrealizedlaterIgotinbecausetherewasaslotopenforthatfrommytype,ifyouwill.Itwasalmostbecauseitwasthefirstgraduatingclass.AndbecauseJohnHouseman,Iputalotofspecialcareintothechoiceoftheactorsinthefirstgroup.Andasyouapproachedthefourthyearofthetrainingprogram,itbecomesmuchmoreorientedtowardsperformanceandfullscaleproductionswithsetsandcostumesandthelike.Whereasthefirsttwoyearsofprettymuchworkinginthestudiowithnosetsorpropsor,youknow,justworkingonrawacting.SoitturnsouttheyneededmytypeandIdidanallrightaudition,apparently,andIgotinandIgotinasanadvancedstudent,whichmeansyoujoinedthethirdyearofthefouryearprogram.SoIjoinedthegroupone.Anditwasverystrange.Thereweretherewerethreeofus,MaryJo,Negro,DavidStiersandI.Andyoujustsortofaddedintothisalreadyvolatilemix.Therearealotoffunnylookslikewhoareyou?
SpeakerWhichpartsofmineareyougoingtobetakingawaynowthatyou’rehereandthingslikethat,allingood,good,goodnaturedfunwithlooksthatcouldkill.
SpeakerButanyway,sothat’showthat’showIgotin.IauditionedIhadauditionedactuallytwoweeksbeforefortheTKGauditions,whichwerethetheatrecommunicationsgroup,whichisvariousuniversitiesanddrumprogramswouldsendfourorfivehandpickedstudentstogototheseauditionsatwhichalltheregionalrepertorycompanieswouldcomeandlookfornewtalent.AndIwentuptoChicagoforthatandwasbounced.Ididn’tgetpastthefirstcut.Andironically,thewomanwhocutme,RosemaryTischler,whoIendedupworkingwithdownatthePublicTheater,isasanassociateproducer.IlovedremindingherthatshehadcutmeandmademethinkIcan’tact.Imightaswellgiveup.Butinaway,thefactthatIhadfailedsothrillinglyattheTKGauditionskindofloosenedmeupformyJuilliardaudition.Idecided,well,I.Yes,youknow,thefactthatIwasgettinggoodpartsincollege,Iwasjustafluke,Ireallycan’tact,soImightaswelljustgototheauditionanywayandjusthavefun.AndsoIwasabitlooserandIalsochosedifferentmaterial.
SpeakerAndIguessthat’showIgotin.
SpeakerYouwantedtheshortanswer,didn’tyou?Gotcha.No,notatall.Ineverdid.
SpeakerTheauditionprocess,ofcourse,issoit’ssoscaryformostpeople.Everytimesomeonetellsmetheygotinandtheytoldmetheydidn’tthinktheyweregoingtogetitandtheydidn’tcarebecauseiftheyreallycared.
SpeakerYeah,no,that’soneoftheironiesorparadoxesofactingisyouhavetocareandnotcare.
SpeakerIsupposethesameinanyperformingdiscipline.Ifyoucaretoomuch,thenyouyouyouknow,it’sveryworkedandoverwrought.Andthere’sthisotherthinghappeningwhichissaying,howamIdoing,dude,youlikeme?CanIgetintoyourschool?Andyouseethatwhetheryou’reauditioningorinperformances,ithastobeithastobeacertainkindof.Insoucianceornonchalanceaboutthewholething,aswellasthisincrediblefocusandconcentrationandsheerwillandcommitment,butIhadthiskindofIdecidedtherewasnoIdidn’thaveaprayer.SoitkindofIhadabitoffun,Ithink.
SpeakerWhatdidyouknow,Imean,thisprogramwassonew,Imean,aprograminNewYorkhereallthewaytotheend,itexistedonlyfortwoyears.
SpeakerYeah.Whatwasthelure?Imean,howaretheyevengettingthewordouttoschool?IsJuilliardexists?Imean,wasitthehasbeenreputation?Imean,whatwhatwhatwas.
SpeakerNo,IamIthinkmysisterhadsentmesomethingshe’dcutoutofNewsweekmagazineorTimeorsomething,alittlearticleaboutthisnewschoolandsayingthisiswhereyoushouldgoifyoureallywanttolearntoact.AndthentherewasabitofbuzzaroundthedramadepartmentatIndianaaboutit.Youknow,littlebrochureswerestartingtoleak.AndIthinkanditjustseemedlikewithMichelleSantoniandJohnHousemanandthewholeideabehindtheschoolofwantingtotrainAmericanactorsintheclassicsaswellascontemporary,buttoincludeinamajorwaytheclassicaltraining,asSandyhaddoneinininFranceandthenthroughhisproductionsinEnglandwithOlivierandGielgudandthelike,andthenhavingfoundedtheNationalTheatreSchoolinCanada.SohisreputationandJohnHouseman’s,Ithinkwereprettycompellingluresforanyyoungactor.
SpeakerYouknow,somebodyactuallydiedatseventy71tooneyearafteryouwouldhavebeenthere.Butdidyoucrosspathswithhimyourself?
SpeakerIgotthereintimeforhismemorial.Therewastherewasamemorialserviceandalotofhisoldstudents.Spokeanditwasaveryinterestingandandmovingmemorial,andinfact,IrememberoneofthethingsthatIforgettheactor,buthesaidsomethingaboutbecausetherewerealotofalotofthedramastudentstheresayingthatwhathelearnedindramaschool,understandinghewasnothecouldn’treallysortofassimilateitallforyearstocome.AndIfoundthatthattruthtobeborneoutininmyexperienceaswell.Youyoudon’tgraduatefromtheJuilliardDramaSchoolasafinishedactor.Andinaway,yougraduateknowinghowmuchthereistoknow,whichIguessanygoodeducationteachesone.Butbutyoualsothenhavetospendyearsunlearningbadhabitsthatyougotintoindramaschool,acertainlifelessonsmorelikelifeworking,lessonsthatyoucanonlylearnfromdoingitprofessionally.AlthoughIhaveoftenthoughtthatgettingupinfrontofanactingclassanddoingasceneismuchharderthananopeningnightonBroadway.Withallofthefirststringcriticsthere,thereisnoonemorecriticalorhypercriticalorsevereintheirdamnationofyouthanyourfellowactingstudentsinanactingclass.Youarelayingitontheline.AndifyouwereeithergoingtotellthetruthorbedamnedforlyingandIremembertherewasawonderfulrefrainbecauseonceImean,allthroughdramaschool,ififtwoactorsgotintoaquarrelaboutsomething,aboutthenatureofanything,thelastrefrainandthefinalsortofcoupdegrace,thelastturnoftheknifeandthealreadyopenwoundwasandthat’swhat’swrongwithyouracting,too.
SpeakerYouknow,it’slikeyearthisyearthatandit’swhat’swrongwithyouracting.Andthatwasthemostunkindcutofallofyou.
SpeakerImpugnmywork.But,yeah,thosethoseactingclasseswhotheywerehard.AndIstilldon’tthinkanyoneatJuilliardknows.ButIwentthroughthetwoofmytwoyearstherewithouteverdoinganemotionalrecall.No,anemotionalrecalliswheretheteachersays,OK,whoeverisreadycangetupanddoanemotionalrecallwhereyouhadtogetupandrelivethroughthetellingsomedeeplytraumaticorotherwisedramaticincidentinyourlifethatsortofreducedyoutogelatinouswhatevereithertremendousrageorgreatusuallywasabreakdownkindofthing.AndI’dsortoflikepeoplewouldraisetheirhandsandI’dgivethemmaybenextweekI’lldoitnextyear.Ineverhadtodoit,butIhavehadtodoitsubsequently.AndIalwaysfeltitwaslikeIsnuckthroughwithouthavingdonemyemotionalbreakdown.AndIfoundmyselfin,youknow,afewmoviesetsorpreparingtodocertainthingsandtime.IgottodoitnowonmyownbecauseI’mgoingtohavetoactuallydothatdumbactingexercisebecauseI’mhavingalittleproblemhere.Butit’sonethingtodoanemotionalrecallinyourownlivingroomandsomethingelsetodoinfrontofyourfellowactors.
SpeakerWe’lltalkalittlebitaboutthat,thatthewholegroupidea,because,youknow,Idon’tknowifyouneedto.Otherdramaschool.
SpeakerThat’scertainlybeentrue.Juilliardfromdayonethatyoustayinthisgroup,thisgroupphilosophy.
SpeakerWe’reallImean,it’slikethey’reallsortoflikenakedinfrontofeachotherbythethirdyear,whichisnow.AndI’mfollowingit’slike,God,they’veseeneverythingaboutImean,they’rewaybeyondtheiractingandinto,youknow,halfofthemhavebeeninandoutoffights,inandoutoflove,inandoutof.Imean.Yeah,howdoesImeanandyoucameintoagroupthatwasprobablyquiteyousay,nothappytoseenothavingtohavetheirpartsstolen.ButImean,talkaboutthatkindofcamaraderieandwhyisitsetuplikethat?
SpeakerWhatisIthinkIdon’tthinkit’snecessarilyparticulartoJuilliard.Ithinkanyschoolwhenyoustartfreshman,yoursophomoreyear,etc,yousortoftendtostaywiththesame,yourcontemporarygroup.
SpeakerOh,no,that’snottrue.No,whenyouwouldknowexactlywhenIwouldspendasecondyear.Precisely.Yeah,theydo.Well,theythat’sit’snotthepolicy,butwe’vedoneit.
SpeakerIrememberwhenIwasthere,evenwehadtofilloutsome,youknow,spearcarriers.Therewassomesmallpartswithmembersoftheclassbelowusthere.Ourtwoclassesforpeoplethere.Yeah.Yeah.Justsomeonetoswellasseen.Theideaofensemblewassomethingthatwasstressed.ButIhavetosay,Ineverfeltitinanyway,perhapsbecauseImissedthatfirsttwoyears.AndfromwhatIgathered,havingjoinedthethirdyear,thepeople.Oh,youmissed,youknow,thestrippingawaypartwhereapparentlypartofthetheplanthatMichelleSantonihadhad.Institutedwasthatthefirstyearyoukindofteardowneverythingortearawayeverythingoryoukindofgettotherawactingsource,whateverthatis,andinsodoing,it’sprettybrutal.SoImissthefactthatbrutalisation,apparently,whereyou’rereallyImean,thefirstthefirstthingyoudothereisthetestandyou’reaskedtoplayKingLearortheydivideupthepartofHamlet.Youknow,you’llplaythefirstact.Youdothesecondactplayingrolesthatyou’renowherepreparedornear,readytoplayandjusttosortofcutyourteethonitandseesortofwhatwhatthereistolearn.AndWilliam,whenIwasthere,therewasthereisthisyouareinfrontofajury.Youarebeingassessedandcriticizedand.Ialmostsaidnurturedinawayyouare,butit’sit’snotalwaysit’snotyou’renotbeingcoddled.Andthisideaofensemble,yes,wewereanensembleandinfact,itwasoneofthemostamazingensemblesthatcouldonanopeningnightwhenyouthoughtthisisgoingtobethedisasterinthehistoryoftheatre,we’renotreadyorweneverevenrehearsethatthing.Andweweregoingtodoitandweneverhadafullrunthroughorsomethingbecauseofallthe,youknow,millionsofreasons,millionsofproblemsthatarisesomehow.Thatensemble,thatthingthatwehadtogether,wecouldpulloff.Itwasitwasmagic.IrememberJohnHousemansaying,Idon’tknowhowyoualldoit,butonopeningnight,yougetinfrontofanaudienceanditjustwejustgelled.Wejustconnected.Wemadeitorandletithappen.Andthereisakindofconfidenceandassurancethatcomesfromtheknowledgeyouhavewiththeoftheseotherpeoplewhoweretherenakedand,youknow,doingthatfrighteningthingwithyou.Now,thesamethingcanbeachievedinawithunderagooddirector,withanyproductionyouasenseofensemble.It’shandpickingthepeoplewhoaregoingtobeinthesameworldwhohavethesame.
SpeakerFeelingabouttheplaywhoarelikemindedaboutit,justdescribeyoujustdidajuniorimitationofthehusband.Tellmealittlebit.Imean,he’she’scarryingagreatmystique.
SpeakerImean,asyouknow,ofcourse,manypeopletalkaboutthePaperchaseroleofacting,huh?Yeah.
SpeakerOscarforthat.It’sjustwhatthey’relike.Andthathehimselfsayshesortofusedhisownselfasamodeltodescribealittlebit.Imean,youknewwhatyouknewandwhatthatwhathiswhathisplacewaswithallthestudentswithyourgroup?
SpeakerWell,mygroupwasanunusualgroup,andIkindofgatheredthatassoonasIarrived.AnditwasanditprovedtobethecaseasIsawsubsequentgroupsgoingthroughthetrainingandgraduating,etcetera.Itwasaitwasaverytalentedgroup.Itwasaverywhile.Therewasanensemble,thereweresomeveryhealthyegos.Therewerepeoplewhoknewwhattheywantedandworkedhardtogetitandwerecompetitive,notinawaythatwouldbedestructivetotheotheractors,but,youknow,kindoftestedyourmettlewastested.Ifyoucouldsortofholdyourownwithcertainpeoplebecausetheywereouttheywereouttherefor,youknow,theywereaseriousentity.Therewasanexpression,amonsterdetat,youknow,thesemonstersofthetheaterwhoarewonderfulbecausetheyaresogood,butthey’renotthey’renotshyaboutit,youknowwhatImean?Andwehadwehadourshareofthose.Butintermsofhouse,whenhewashewashewastheguywhopickedthesepeopleandheratherrelishedthat.Someofthemwereveryoutspoken.Coupleofthememberswerefamousfor.Oh,yeah,youcouldhearhiminJohn’sofficescreaming,John,screamingathim.Andthey’rescreamingrightback.Andlotsoffoullanguageandveryexciting.And,youknow,Iremembersortofafamousstory,atleastamongus,whenHousemancalledusallintohisofficeandthereweren’tthatmanychairs.Weallwouldjustsortofsitathisfeet.He’dsitbehindhisdeskandhewouldneverlook,makeeyecontact,sortoflookoffoutthewindow.Andseveralactorshadbeencuttinganactingclass.WehadasortofvisitingactingteacherwhowasintowndoingaplayonBroadwaywhowillremainnameless.Andsomepeoplejustthought,well,he’sgotnothingtoteachmeandIcan’tbebotheredorwhatever.AndI’manactor.Whenthisthisteachersaid,wherewereyouwherewereyoulastWednesday?Idon’tknow.IguessIhadsomethingtodo.AndI’msittingtherethinking,oh,myGod,howcanyoutalk?Youcan’ttalktotheteacherlikethat.Ican’tbelieveit.Iwasrathermoredutifulinmyinmystudies.Isavedmylife.Sortoflackofreverenceforthis,fortheactualperformance.ButwewewereallcalledinandandHowsamsaid,right,Iunderstand.Youknow,thisisayou’veseveralyou’vebeenmissingandthereturns,oneofthegreatestactors.Andnowthiskindofshabbybehaviourwillnotbetolerated.
SpeakerIwillifoneofyoumissesonemoreoftheseclasses,Iwillsimplycancelyourentireclass.AndyouwillstartwithGrouptwoisthefirstgraduatingclass,andthatwillbethat.That’sallyougetout.Andthatwassortofhistone.
SpeakerThat’sallyougetoutand.That’sthewayhekindofdealtwithusandnoandandIrememberyes,butbudgetnooutouttherewasthisgreatauthoritativewell,likeProfessorKingsfield,Ithinkthatwashisnameinthepaper.Hehadthisincrediblebearingandmagisterialqualitywiththebowtiesandthevests.AndhewasverysomethingveryEuropeanandelegantandhighlyculturedandjustsortofthewayhelooked.Andwhenyou’dcomewhenhewalkeddownthehallwaytositinonaclass.Hecouldinstillatleastinme,notineveryone,becausealotofpeoplelovesortofyellingrightbackathim.Hecouldinstillgreatfearandrespect.Washesortofifthewordbetrustworthy,though,Imean,whenyouweredoingintermsofgettingintherewithwiththisvulnerability,thatisthattheseyoungactorsthatIseenow,ifyouweresittingthere,Imean,couldyoucouldyoutrusthimorwashe.Oh,yeah.Oh,trusthim.Inwhatway,youmean.No,Imeanjusttrusthisjudgmenttime.You’resureit’sthemostviolent.It’slikeasecondadolescence.It’sgoingthroughadramaschool.Youcan’ttrustanyoneifyou’resmart.Butofcourseyou’renot.Youyouare.Youhavethisnewsetofparentsinawaywhoarewhoaretryingtomoldyouandguideyouandcriticizeyouandleanonyouandmakesureyou’redoingdoingitright.Atthesametime,youareforgingyouridentityasanactor,asanartist,asaasahumanbeing.Andassuch,it’ssortoflikeadolescentkidswithparents.There’stherecanbeasortofdynamictensionwhereyourespectthem,butyouhatethemandyourebelagainstthem,butyoualsoaccedetotheirdemandsthing.Thinkabouthousemenmean.WhenIarrivedthere,hewasscary.BythetimeIfinishedfouryearsintheactingcompany,whichwasthecompanyheformedwhenwegraduatedtwoyearslaterafterIarrived,itwasn’tMr.Houseman,itwasJohn.AndIgottoknowhimandwegottobefriends.Andwealsowouldn’tImean,whenwewereabouttograduate,wehadthislittleminiseasonandJohninvitedalotofthesortoftheatricalluminarieswhowerehisfriendsandcolleaguestocomeandseetheseason.Weputonlikefourorfiveplaysinrepertory.AndhealsoinvitedTheNewYorkTimes,whoMelGussowwrotethisincrediblereviewforthefortheentireseason.AndHousemancalledusall.AndIsaid,youknow,Iit’sthelastthingintheworldIneedatage70or72orwhateverhewasatthetimeistostartanotherrepertorycompany.ButIcan’tletyouallgo.Ican’tletyouallgooutthere.AndsoIwanttoformyouintoacompany.Andwethought,oh,wow,withthekindofoh,Imean,wecan’twe’reallstucktogethermore.Butwehehewasquiteinfiring.HesaidwehadthissenseofmissionthathehadkindofinculcatedinustogooutthereandsortofsavetheAmericantheatreandtobringtheatretoAmericaandespeciallyclassicaltheater.Andwewerehishisguineapigs.HehadraisedusandtaughtusandoverseenourImean,hecreatedthesemonstersinaway.Andhewantedhedidn’twanttonotbeabletopractice.Whathepreachedandsowasborntheactingcompany,which.Atthetime,andIthinktothisdayisstillunlikeanyanythinginAmerica,especiallyifyou’vecomerightoutofJuilliardaswehadnowtheytakestudentsoractorsfromfromotherschoolstofilloutthecompany.Butit’sessentiallythecoreis,IthinkJuilliardgraduates.WewereallJuilliardgraduatesandwegottogooutandpracticewhatsooftenhappensnowwithactorstocompletetheirtrainingwhereveritis.ThentheygotoNewYorkandstartdoingcommercialsorworkinginsoapoperas,ortheygodirectlytoL.A.andgettypecastinsomesituationcomedyormoviesorwhatever.Buttheyneverreallygettopracticethecraftthattheyspentfouryearstrainingfor.ButherewaswhereasinEnglandor,youknow,youwouldgoyouwouldfinishdramaschoolandgoofftotheBirminghamraporgogodoyourdueafewyearsofrap.That’swhereyoureallycutyourteethandstartapplyingallthestuffyoulearnedinschool.Inapracticalway.Weweregiventhisopportunityandwewerethrilledandwehandedourequitycards.Wedidn’tgoout,havetogooutandpoundthepavement,findagents,findjobsthatwerereallyawasteoftime.Theyweren’treallygoingtokeepchallengingourtalentsorstretchingusinanyway.Sowegottodothat.AndIdidthatforfouryearsafterafterJuliaandJohnwas.Theforcebehindit,theinspirationbehindit,thegalvanizer,the.Keptitallonanevenkeelandkeptraisingthefundstokeepitalive.Idon’tthinktodaythatmanyofthecitizensandmaybeit’smoney,um,I’malonethetwoyearsthatI’vebeenthere,heardofanybodygoingintotheactingcompanyastwo?Oh,no.Oh,Iwastoldrecentlythattheyweresortofmoreandmore.Iheardthataboutthreeorfourdid.Yeah,butbutnotinthelastcoupleofyears.Thelastcoupleofyears.Theyhaven’tmorethanitwouldbegreat.Imean,Ithink,youknow,itjustitcouldIthinkit’sprobablymorethaneightmoney.Everybody’ssotappedandthentheyhavefourmore.Imean,Idon’tknow,itjustormaybethey’rebeingso,sopressuredtotakeit.AndIrememberwell,afewyearsago,IrememberMichaelKahnaskingmetocomeandtalktothekidsatschoolbecause.IguessbecauseIwasvisiblyafilmactorwhoalsocontinuedtodothetheaterandtheclassicsinparticularbecausehewaslamentingthethethefactthatsomanyofthemweretrainingforfouryearsandthengoingtoL.A.anddoing,well,craporevenit’snotcrap.Justsortof.Ifyougorightfromdramaschool,there’sathere’sathere’sachancethatyoucanbejustimmediatelytypecastandyouasanactor,allowyourselftobetypecastinawayandyoustopifyou’renotcareful.Typecastingisjustoneexampleofhowyoucanstopgrowing.Imean,youcanplaythesameroleandforever,mindyou,andandhaveagreatartisticcareer.It’snotjustaboutcasting.It’sjustaboutworkingwiththebestpeopleonthebestmaterialthat’sgoingtochallengeyouandgoingtokeepyougrowing,expanding,gettingbetter.Youknowwhat?IfIwanttotalkalittlebitfor,youknow,Isortofactuallyknowthatpeople,whenI’mputtingthefilmtogether,won’tknowthekindofmakeupofthisclassicaltrained,theactualtheactualclasses.Andandtosomedegree,whatwhatlaterpeoplewillcriticizeatJuilliardstudentperformingstrongly.Yeah,well,butormayberightly,maybebecauseyou’vehadthatyouhavetobreakthem.Yeah.LauraLinneydescribeditasyouhavethemandthenyouhavethechoicetousethemifyou.Yeah.Yeah.Thatwasanicewayofputtingit.ButwhatistheImeanwhatiswhatgoesintothevoid.Imean,whatarethewhataretheyandwheredidtheycomeupwiththeImeanwith.WellIthinkoneoftheoverridingtenetsofthephilosophyofSantoniandHousemenandJuilliardingeneral,asitwasthenandstillis,isthatyougreatactorsaremadefromplayingthegreatroles,thesameinthemusicschool.Youdon’tifyoupracticetheBachandRachmaninoffandtheBeethovenandtheandthebighardchallengingpieces,whateveryourinstrumentis,whateveryourdisciplineis,thosegreatmasterworksarewhatchallengeyouandwhatmakeyougood.Ifyoudomediocrematerial,ifyoumastermediocrity.OK,sowhat.Sotheideaofofoftheclassicaltraining,playingthegreatparts,playingthegreatworksof,ofdramaticliterature.Withinwhichyou’realsoworkinginawidevarietyofstyles,whetherit’scomedy,tragedy,restoration,ElizabethanJacobean,GreektragedyorcomedyorcontemporaryTennesseeWilliams,DavidMamet,EugeneO’Neill,whathaveyou,thattheideaofbeingacompleteactorbecauseyouhavestudiedsuchawiderangewiththenotionthatthereissuchathingcalledstyle,thatyoudon’tactEugeneO’NeillthesamewayyouactShakespeareor.MolièreorTennesseewinsthatthateachdramatistandeachparticularplayalsodemandsasenseofstyleandunderstandingofstyle.Andthat’swhyIsaidSundanesebooktheater,arediscoveryofstylewassortofrequiredreadingforallofus,thenotionoflearningtodistinguishbetweenShakespeareanactingandasortofcontemporaryfilmactingorsoapoperaactingorChekhovChekhovinactingthat.They’redifferentandalotofactorsneveraretaughtthedifferencenowwiththatthesamewayamusicianisgoingtolearntotoreallyplayBach,well,youhavetounderstandtheBaroque.Thedifferencebetweenbaroqueandromantic,say,music.Nowandthetheshortcomingsofthattrainingisthatifyoumisusetheinformationyoulearn,whetherit’sinmusic,danceordrama,andyoudon’tsynthesiseyourselfasanartistwithwhatyouhavelearnedandwiththezeitgeistandwhoyouareandwhatthehumanconditionis,atanygivenmoment,youcanyoucanmisuseitmightilybybybeingtoostrict.Others,youcanlearntobeirreverentwithShakespeare,forexample,onceyou’velearnedwhattruereverenceis,ifyouknow,ifyou’vestudiedthehistoryofofthestyleofShakespeareanactingthesameway,ifyou’reapainterandyouunderstandthehistoryofpaintingastilllife,youcanyoucanseewhereyoufitintothatwhatlinkinthechainyouareinthatinthatartform.Soalotofpeople,Ithink,graduatefromJuilliard,whetherit’smusic,danceordrama,whocanplaythenotesperfectly,whocandancethestepsperfectly,whocanspeakthespeechbeautifullyandmovebeautifullyandactbeautifully.Butnoneofthemareartistsyetuntiltheylearnhowto.Gobeyondpuretechnique,becauseschoolcansortoffosterthisideaoftechnique,technique,technique,I’vegotto,youknow,becauseyou’retheretohoneyourtechnique,becausetherearenoclassesinsoulfulness.Youknow,there’snoclassin.Whatinlife,inaway,you’reprotected.Oneofthegreatthingsthatanactingschooloramusicschoolordanceschoolprovidesisaprotectedplacewhereyoucanpracticeandsometeachersaregoingtosaysomethingthat’sgoingtoputyouoffonthewrongtrackandthatmaytakeyearstoundoorwillopenupadoor.Thatwillalsotakeyearstotoreally.Understandandcometosomekindoffruition,butIrememberwhenwefirstgraduatedfromJuilliard,there’soh,therewasareputation,oh,youallcantalksowellandyoucanmovesowell.But,youknow,butyoureallyhavenoheart.Andwedidn’tlikethat.Andovertheyearsthatthathas.Diminished,Ithink,becauseinAmerica,therewasthisgreatActor’sStudiotradition,actorsstudio,inthebroadestsense,averynaturalisticsortofpersonality,acting,that’sitatitsworstwhereandsomesomeofAmerica’sgreatestactorscomefromthat.Veryunschooled,inaway.IfyouwenttotheActorsStudio,thatthatwassortofyoustudiedyourself,yoursoul,yourhistory,youremotionalmakeup.AndfromwhatIunderstandit,andI’msureI’mnotdoingitnearlytojustice,it’sdogetagaintalkingaboutitatitsworst.Alotofmisguidedactorsfromthatdisciplinewouldyouknow,firstofall,youcouldn’thearthempastthefirstrowintermsofjustbasicstagetechnique.Also,theywouldgetlost.
SpeakerSoupthereintheir.
SpeakerOwnselflessthattheywerenotgoingtotheparttheywouldbringtheirpartsotothemthattheywouldreduceKingLeartothislittleguy.Youknow,it’sagreatstoryaboutStellaAdlerteaching.AnactorwasdoingHamletinherclassandhehad,youknow,kindofbroughtitdowntojustthekindofconversational,verynaturalisticplacethathewasveryconnectedtoit.Andshesaid,darling,I’mHamletisnotaguylikeyou.AndIlovethatstorybecauseit’ssoit’ssoindicativeofwhatisaproblemwithalotofAmericanactors.AndIseeitwithitwithBritishactorsaswell,doingShakespeare.Youcanbringitbringitdownsofar.Andbecauseofmoviesandtelevision,werecognizethatkindofhypernaturalism,behaviouralkindofacting,youknow,butithaslittletodowithwithpoeticdrama.Itdoesn’tworkwithShakespeareorRacineorMarloweorarestoration.However,it’sandoneofthevirtuesofJulia.Italsowasthethethearrayofdifferentdisciplinesthatweretaught.Youwouldhaveateacherthatwasactors,studiooriented,makingmakingyoubleedemotionally,making,wantingyoutogetintouchwithyoursoul.Buthewasoutweighedby10otherpeoplewhoaresaying,youknow,you’reyou’reyou’renotstandingyou’renotwearingthatcorsetcorrectly.You’renotusingthatfancorrectly.You’renotyourspeechisterrible.YoustillhaveIstillhearthatChicagoaccentorwhateveroncertaindiphthongs.Andyouhavetoworkonthisandyouhavetodothat.Andifyoualloweditto,itcouldboxyouintillyoubecamethissortoftechnicalactingrobotthatdideverythingperfectly.Somypoint,whichIkeepmakingoverandoveris.It’sevenwithShakespeare,youcan’tjustspeakitbeautifullyandeveryonecanunderstandeveryword,andit’sallbeautifullyphrasedandhollowandemptyandboringandvile.Thereisthatotherstuff.ButasIsay,sometimesittakesawhiletosynthesizeallofit.Somepeoplegetitinthemiddleoftheofdramaschool.Somepeoplegetitnotfouryearslater.Again,somuchofithastodowithifthey’regivenaplacetopracticeit,topractice.It’snotsomethingyoulearnforyears.Yougetyourdegree.It’sokay.I’vemasteredacting.Remindsmeofmyfiveyearolddaughterwho’stakingpianolessons,butshesaidshealsowantstotakeviolin.Butfirstshewantstolearnthepianoandthendotheviolin.Like,letmejustmasterthepiano.Like,I’lldothatbynextweekandthenI’llstarttheviolin.It’snaive.Like,youknow,thechangeIwaslookingfor.Ithinkthatwasmereportingfor15yearswithalittlebitofIwantedtotalkabout,youknow,youweresaying,youknow,you’reavoidingthedraft.Youknow,yougotinNewYork.Imean,talkaboutcomingtoNewYork.Imean,itwasitwasaratherhighlypoliticaltimeinNewYork.Imean,we’resortofpolicingthatthe60sinNewYork.Imean,wasthereIknowtheliedownthefamousplazaIwasintherefor.Iwasjustprobablythespringbeforeyouhadarrived.ButwasthereasensewasthereasortofapoliticalapoliticalbandorwaseveryoneImean,whatwasthat?Oh,yes.ToNewYorkinthe60s.Andthewhatwasthemoodlike?Well,I.IarrivedatJuilliardin1970and,um.Idon’trecalltremendouspoliticalzationamongstthestudents,theyhaddonetheirtheirsortofliedownproteststheyearbefore,asindeedIhadbackatcollege.Imean,thewarwasstillragingandwehadall,Ithinkatthatpointbecomefairlyentrenchedinwhatourposturewasvisavisthewarandthegovernmentandtheauthorityfiguresandlifeingeneral.AndIdon’tIdon’trememberalotofhey,guys,let’stakeabreakfromrehearsalandgo.There’sagreatprotestgoingon.Youknow,wewere.Irememberbeinginthiswonderfulroomlikebubbleofprotectivenesswhereourlittleacademeofofartare.WewereIwastheretoactandtolearnactinginaconservatory,youknow,highlyspecializedandnoothercourses.Ihadtotakenoneofthisliberalartsstuff.No,itwasacting,acting,acting.AndIloveditbecauseIhadbeensortoftrudgingthroughcollegefrustratedbyalltheseclassesIhadtogotothatIreallydidn’tthinkwasnecessary.IremembergoingIhadafivehourgeologycourse,whichIwenttoaboutthreeclassesofandmissedthemidtermexam.AndIwentforthefinal.ButIneededthisfivehoursofcreditin,youknow,physicalsciencestograduate.Iwenttotheguyandhesaid,Now,youneverwenttothelabs.Youonlycametoacoupleoflectures.Youmissedthemidterm.Whathaveyoubeendoing?AndIsaid,whichistrue.IwasplayingPrometheusinPrometheus,boundattheuniversitytheater.AndIsaidIwastiedtoIraq.IwasIwaschainedtoIraq,youknow,butthat’saboutallIknowaboutgeology.Andhesaid,youdon’treallyyou’regoingtobeanactor.Yes.Isuggestyouprobablydon’tneedgeologyinyourlineofwork.IsaidIdon’tanticipatethat.No.Hesaid,well,wouldyoubehappyifIjustgaveyouaDandletyouskipthefinal.Oh,I.D,yes.Andthat’showI.Igottograduatewithoutknowingathingaboutgeology,becauseI’mfascinatedbygeologynowandI’mlearningonmyown.Butmypointbeingcompletelylost,yourpointbeingthatitwas.Ohyes.Yes.Thatincollege.Yes.Thatthosecourseswereadistraction.However,Ihastentototopointouttoanyyoungactorsthataneducationoutsideoftheconservatoryisveryimportant,thatifyouonlyknowhowtoact,youwon’thaveanythingtoactifyouifyou’restupidanduneducated.SoIrecommendaliberalartseducationorwhathaveyou.Butthere’ssomanydifferentapproachestoJuilliard.Stillhasthatmixwheresomepeoplearecomingin.They’reseventeenpeoplearecomingin,youknow,twentyone,25andtwentysix.Ithinkhavingjustweactuallyjustfilledtheholethroughthewholeauditionprocess.Ohreally.NeverintheroomsintheauditionwithMichael.Andandyouknow,IfeelthatIthinkheworriesabouttakingpeopleattwentyfivenowbecauseofthecareeroutsideyouforthemtowalkoutofthebusinessatthirty.Yeah,it’shard.Soalotof,youknow,halftheclassofpeoplewhograduatefromhighschool.Hmm.Andyouknow.Yeah.Wehadafewofthose.Yeah.I’dsaywehadfour,Irememberfourorfiveofthoseandthenanotherhandfulofkidswhohadayearortwoofcollegeandandsomeofusoldtimerswho’ddonethewholefouryears.Um,wesortofinintheprocessoftalkingaboutiswesortofthesortofthecoregroupgroupoftheseclassesoflikemovementtoboysbecausewe’redoingallthesethingshappeninthemovement.Theboys,thecombat,theImean,whatImean,I’mwonderingwhat.Beendrawnto,well,IcanIremembershowingup,theysaid,well,here’swhereyougotobuyyourleotardandtightsforyourmovementclassleotardandtights.Imean,Ihadgonetothecollegeandactedinplaysandtakensomeactingclasses,butIneverhadtoputonleotardandtights.What’sthisgoingtobe?Well,IfoundoutrealsoonhowcompletelyinhibitedIwasphysically,notonlyinmovementclass,butinmaskclass.OK,we’regoingtotakeamask,oneofthemwithamaskclasswhereyouputonthesemasks.Andonceyou’rebehindthemask,thenyouuseyourbodyandtheneventuallyyourvoicewithoutbenefitofyourface.Buttocreatephysicallyandorallyacharacterthat’scharactermasksyou.Alsoaneutralmask,whichisjustlearningtohear,feel,respondwithyourentirebody,notjust,youknow,thephoneringsandyou,oh,dothat.That’sonekindofacting.Whenyouhavethemaskonandyoudon’thaveyouhavetoit’ssomewhere.It’snotmime,butitisasortofmyunderstandingofit.It’sait’sbyinhibitingtheface.Youdisinhibitthebodyandyou’reallowedtoexpresswhatyou’refeelingmorephysically.You’reencouragedto.Andthosewerethoseopenedupaphysicalityinme,whichbeforewasmerelyathletic.Iwaslikesortofjumpingaround.ButIactuallystartedtobecomeexpressive,Ithink,withmywholebeingwithwiththoseclasses.AndAnaSokolova,whowasadiscipleofMarthaGrahamandthenwentoffonherownandalsotaughtattheActorsStudio,shetaughtBrando,amongotherpeople,herclasswasamazing.Sheifshesawyoudoingapushup,shegoes,whatthehellisthat?Idon’twanttoeverseeamovementwithoutanemotionattachedtoit.Soitstartedwithusreachingonhertiptoesandreachingforthesky.Andshe’dwalkaroundandpullyourhair.Andifyouweren’treachingwitheveryfiberofyourbeingandthenwouldgetusdoingnotmoderndance,butsortofclosetothatmovingbutalwayswithemotionandshowandteachingusthatcertainmovementscouldalmostinduceanemotionandhowtheemotionallifeandthephysicallifeareinextricablyintertwined.Andshewasverymuchfromtheoldschool.Irememberheronedaysayingifitdoesn’thurt,itain’tart.Imean,youputtingyourbodythroughtheseverystrenuousmotions,alwayswiththeintentofbeingconnectedemotionallytothem.Thatclasswasjustgreat.AndthenEdithSkinnerteachingaspeech,whichsheshewastomelikeImean,oneoftheoneofthelasttrulyeccentricpeople.Iwasn’tthere,butIwastoldthattheyearbeforeshelookedout,whenbeforeJuilliardhadmovedtoLincolnCenter,lookedoutthewindowandyoucouldseetheriverandshehadbeenteachingdiphthongsnow.Sonowwehaveenteredontothegreatriverofdiphthongs,sisboomba.ItwaslikethatcharacterthatMaggieSmithplayed,MissJeanBrodie.Youknow,mygirlsarethecremedelacreme.ShewassomeonesaidalQaedaandshe’s.No,no,it’sashortvowel.It’s.Andshetaughtyoutotoappreciateashortfallandatruediphthongandhowtorecoilfromanoftliedandoffglidebeinganoffglide,thatlittleattheendisanoffglide,whichyoudon’twanttodounlessyou’reanevangelicalpreacherwhodoesofferglideallthetime.Butitdoesn’tworkifyou’redoingChekhovorShakespearesoorasplashyteaorasibilantSoranintermediateA,youmust,ifyoumust,theasklist.Youhadtomemorizethislistof,Idon’tknow,30or40wordsthatwereintermediateA’slikeaskandcommandanddance.AndI’veforgottensomeofthem.Butshesaidthetasklistismoneyinyourpockets,becauseifyouthenwenttoaShakespeareauditionandsaid.Youknow,askordanceorcommand,yousoundedlikeyouwerefromtheMidwestorSouthernCaliforniaorwhatever,shewouldbeatanyregionalismoutofyourspeech,wewouldsay.ButifIwenthomeatChristmasbreakandmyfriendssaidthatIsoundedphonyandshesaid,changeyourfriendsbecauseshewasdeterminedtomakeclassicalactorsofus.AndthatspeechtrainingisawayofneutralisingyousothatyoucanbeRichardthethird,youcanbeakingofEnglandwithoutdoinganEnglishaccent.Itwasn’tlearninganEnglishaccent.ItwastolearnAmericanstagedictionnowandagainifyoujustdidthatandbutbutlostwhoyouwere.Alotofpeople,iftheycan’ttalkthewaytheytalk,theylosethemselves.Theyarenolongerthey’rejusttheyjustsoundfake.Ontheotherhand,ifyouwanttodo.Classicalacting,ifyouwanttodoadialect,ifyou’regoingtoinanywaychangethewayyoutalk.Shewastheladytoteachyou,aswasher,whoshehandedthemantlethentoTimMamak,whowasoneofherprizedstudentswhothentookoverthedepartmentwhenshepassedon.DidyoualsoworkwithMonique?Yes.Yeah.Whatareyourwhatareyourmotive?Ofcourse,hasbeenthere’sliquoriceriseandstillthere.Mmhmm.Dailypounding.Irememberdoingthat.TheBritishflagwithyoureyesjusttowarmupyoureyesandthenyourneckandthenallthatmimework.Youknow,mimeisfrowneduponthesedays,Ithink,becauseofthestreetmimesyndromeinourcountry,whichislamentable,I’msure,althoughIdon’tknowwhy,butthatwasagreatanothergreatkindofphysicalexertion,puttingyouintouchwithyourphysicalityandwiththephysicalworld.Imean,whatdoesitmeantowalkagainstthewind?That’sanimportantquestionforanyactortoaskhimself.AndI’lltellyou,yougetonamoviesetandtheysayweneedyoutoit’sreallyawindyday.Butifweifweputthewindmachineupfull,we’regoingtogetabadsoundtrack.Socanyoukindofwalkasifit’swindyor.IrememberinthemovieTheIceStorm,weshotitinMayandIhadtosliponice,whichwasreallybasicallyhairgel,justsomeslimetheyputonthegroundthatwashighlyreflective,thatlookedlikeice.ButmytrainingcameinhandybecauseIknewIknewhowtosortofslipandslideonice.Thatwasn’treallythere.Alotofalotofwhatyoulearniscompletelyuselessandalotofitissurprisinglyuseful.Alotofthemaskworklearningtothemakerjustmakelearningtodomakeupandhowtochangeyourfaceto.Tosomethingelse,tothecharacter,myfirstjob,Imean,Ithought,oh,theyhiredmetoplaytheyoungleadingman,Iguesstheydon’ttheyhavetoomanycharacteractorsintheintheclass.Onthefirstofall,Iplayan80yearoldfatherinaJacobeanplaythreehoursofmakeup,youknow,meandamakeupartistlearningandjustforabouteightlines.Butitcameinhandy.AndImean,becausewhenIdomoviesnow,IworkwiththemakeupartistsandandweworktogetherandIkindoflearnyourfaceandyouwell,youknow,ifwedotheifwedothisthingwiththeeyebrowsandthisthingwithmynoseandthiswillcreatethisandwecandothatandandit’smoreofacollaborationbecause.I’veactuallystudieditandI’velearnedwithmaskshowtothenmoldor.MASHmyphysicalitywithafacethat’snolongermine,that’sbeenthroughmakeuporwhathaveyou,wigsandthelikedistortedintosomethingelse.Andthen,youknow,allthattraininghasactuallycomeinhandy.IactuallywenttoFranceandsomeherehaveIdon’tknow.Yeah,wedidourcharacters.Imean,he’svery,veryold.Iknow.Buthehadhiswholeboxsetofmasks.Anditwaswhatwassotouchingishewasveryold.Eveninthesettingupthelights,hetookalittlenap,alittlecatnapontheside.Andandyetwhenheputthethemaskoftheyoungmanonhim,hebecamelikealittleboy.Yeah.Anditwasveryitwasvery,verytouching.Andhehadavery,very,youknow,slimmemoryofthings.Butthen.Unbelievable.Notamomentallinhismuscles.Remember,he’sgot.Yeah,heactuallyreferredtothememoriesinyourmuscles,whichis.Sure.Butwhatwashewhatwashelike?Particularlytheteacherthatpeopletalkaboutwithgreatlove.Oh,he’sjustthere’ssomethingpoeticandlyricalandbeautifulaboutwhoIam.Imean,hejustloveditandlovedwhatwecreatedandlovedthewholeprocessandinspiredusandwewouldputonthesemasksthatweresortoflike,youknow,thosecommediadell’arte,asweretheseveryexaggeratedfeatures,oritwaskindofrotundandmorphictomorphicallkindsofstrangethings.Andthenyoulookedinthemirrorandtriedtofindthebodythere,theposturethatwentwiththatmask.Andthenyouthenyoutrytomoveandyoufindaway.Andhowwouldthispersonmove?Thenyouwouldjustmakeatone.Whatnoisewouldthispersonmake?Thenyoufoundtheirvoice.Thenyouwoulddiscoveryourinvent,Ishouldsay,theirwayofspeaking.Andyoudevelopacharacter,asitwere,fromtheoutsideincompletely.Butwhereyoumetthem,youcouldalsomakeitverypersonal.Themaskcouldbethesource.Themaskcouldthendisinhibityoubecauseyou’rewearingamask,whichiswhatyoudowheneveryouact.Youhavethemaskofthecharacter.Thisisn’tme.Thisissomeonewrotethis.I’mjustactingit,butactuallyliterallyputtingonamaskthatthatmetaphorforactingbecomesquitepalpableforayoungactorbecausethefreedomtobemorewhoyouarebecauseofthemask,togetintouchwiththingsthatarelittlesubpersonalitiesorlittleemotionsthatinyoureverydaylifeyoudon’tgivemuchventtoortimetothemaskisagreatwaytoexplorethat.Andthatwasagreatclassforforthat.Andweandforhystericallyfunny,wewouldinventtheseinsanecharactersandandthenactoutjustimprovisationsallofthesethings.Ifyouifyouwalkedinatanygivenpointandsawthisguy,youwhatthehellisthat.Whatawasteoftimetheyalladdedupto.Imean,alotofifyouwatchagreatconcertpianistdoinghisscalesandsomeofthesestrangeexercises,beautifulmusic,butitallitallservestoaddtowhenyouleastexpectit,techniqueissomethingthatyoushouldneversee.It’ssomethingthatislearnedtobeforgotten,tobediscardedbecauseit’sthere.It’syourit’syournet.Butthenyouhavetothen.Dothedothework,thisisitjustgivesyoutoolswhichwhenrequiredandwhenyoulearnhowtousethetools,youatleasthaveaccesstothemor.Well,thethingis,cominginthethirdyear,I’mnotreallyanexemplarofthetypicalJuilliardstudentbecauseIhadIwasmore.Formedasanactoror.Person,soIwasn’tquiteasvulnerable,Iwasn’tthereforthebeginning,Iwasn’tthererightoutof,youknow,eightyearsoldor19yearsold,I’dhadsome,youknow,fouryearsofcollegeandandalotofIdidalotofactingincollege.Imean,Iwasalwaysinsomething.SometimesIwasintwothingsatonce.Iwoulddothingsintheuniversitytheater.AndIwasalsopartofagroupthatformedourowncompanyoffcampusandinakindofcoffeehousedoingrathermoreradicaltheater,but.IthinkyouspoketoalittlebitIthinkIreadatranscriptofwhatprobablywaswhatyouwerereferringtoearlier,aguestlecturerbacktoJuilliard.Youtalkedalittlebitaboutgettingyourskin,youknow,toughandalittlebitbecause,youknow,thiscastingthisauditionwiththisviewofyourselfthatyouhavetosomehowletgo.Yes.Yes.AndwhenIwhenIgobacktoteachatJuilliard,Itrytoyoucan’tsortofskipthesesteps.Butinaway,especiallyinthethirdyear,that’sthesortofyearwherethesynthesisofallthekindoftechnicaltrainingthatyou’vehadbecomesmoreorientedtowardsfullproductions.Soyoudon’thavetheluxuryof,well,I’mjustinastudiowith,youknow,I’mmimingIdon’tevenhavepropsoror,youknow,nothingresemblingacostume.It’sjustmeandthetextonceyou’resurroundedbyallthatkindof.Stuffthereisthisimperativeof,oh,thisisawe’reputtingonashowhere,thisisathisistherealthingandI’veseenthathappeninhighlyprofessionalsituations.Whenyougofromtherehearsalhalltosuddenlyyou’reintechrehearsalsandyou’vegotthecostumesandthelightsandthesetsand.Itspushhascometoshoveandit’stimetotodeliver.It’snotaworkshopsituation,youknow,andwhile,ofcourse,you’reallowedtofail,itwouldbebetterifyoudidn’t.Thenotionofperformancebecomes,Ithink,moreparamountinthethirdyear,whereasprocessisperhapsstressedmoreinthefirsttwoyears.Soit’sfairlyagonizing,Ithink,totrytosynthesizeallthatstuffintoperformanceinthatthirdyear.Butagain,IsaybecauseIhadhadImean,Iwassortoflikeafinishingschoolforme.IlearnedIgotridofalotofbadhabitsthatIhadlearnedfromactingbeforeand.Justacquiredalotofnewtools.ButIwasIwasstillIwascompletelydestroyedbyoneortwo,Imean,IwasconvincedthatIshouldgiveupacting.Absolutely.Therewasonedirectorandactingteacherwhowasreallybrutal,whoIlearnedsomuchfrom.Hewasabrilliantteacher,butitwasitwasnoteasy.Hetaughtushowwhatwhatithadtocostyouifitdidn’tcostyouanythingtodothatscenecostyouemotionally,psychically,viscerallyyou.Imean,hehereallydemandedalot.Butratherthancoddlingandnurturing,hewouldsay,well,you’reincapableofrealangeroryouhavenosexualityoryourdesireandsoon.AndIwas,youknow,evenwhateverwhatIwas20,21,IwasstillimpressionableandIcan’tactagain.Thatwasinainaproductionthat,youknow,weweregoingtoperforminfrontofpeopleandsetsomecostumes.AndIwastheleadandIhadtodeliver.Andforhistaste,Iwasn’tdelivering.Sohebeatmeupprettybad.And,youknow,IgotanulcerandlostalotofweightandbutthenitupanotherproductioncamealongandI.Didwell,ifyouhavememoriesofaveryspecificmemoryofcertainproduction,certainmomentsthatyou’rethatyou’reevenharkingbacktonow.Andofcourse,youwereinalotoftheshowsthatthenwentoninschoolforscandal.Hewentontheroadtotheactingcompany.Meanthey’regreat,vivid.Yeah,well,theyare.Andwheneveranyofusoldalumsgettogether,thosethereweregreatstories.Imean,crazythingsthathappenonstageandfunnyfunnythings.AndImean,Irememberweweredoingthelowerdepthsandmostwewouldshare,whichnoonehadanindividualdressingroom.Weallsharedthisbigdressingroomandthatkindofcamaraderieslashincestuous.Destructive,competitivemadnesswouldwouldoftentakeveryamusingforms,butwekneweachothersowellthatwewouldimitateeachother.I’minthedressingroombeforebeforehisshow.Oh,yeah.Well,ofcourse,thenwhenyougiveusthatfamousspeechandyoudolikeasortofsendupcaricatureimitationofthisorthatactor,itwasImean,thingsthatareabsolutelyanathemainaprofessionalsetting.Butinthiskindofhotbedofofcompetitive,youknow,kindofpostadolescentactingschoolsilliness,wewouldpeopleI,ofcourse,wouldneverdoubtthat.ButIrememberpeoplewouldimitateeachotherordoterriblethingstoundermineit,totrytocrackuptheotheractorsonstage,notinacompetitiveway,inafunnyway.TherewasoneinschoolforscandaleverytimeJuddandbroughtoutthelittlenotethatIhadtosignwhenafterI’dauctionedoffmyfamilyportraitsandhewritesacheckandI’dlookatthechequeanditwas,oh,Ijustfor800pounds,whereasI’donlyauctionedoffforlike200.AndbutonthatbillwouldbeGodknowswhatsomethingIrememberoncethathe’dcutoutawoman’senormousbreastsfromsomegirliemagazineandwrote400pounds,400poundsoneachbreast.Differentpounds,obviously,thanthepoundsofweightisfor800pounds,orhewouldwritejusthorriblyscatologicalthings.Well,IrememberwhenweweredoingthehostageandtherewasaSamJoneshadthelineonMegaeraBloodsworthButlinandthedirectorsaidthatisgoingtobethebiggestlaughoftheevening.You’llsee.Thatisagreatline.You’redoingitbeautifully.That’sgoingtokillyou.Oh,that’sgreat.Well,itcametothefirstperformanceanditgotsortoftired.Itwasn’tgettingabiglaugh.Andastheraincontinued,itgotlessandless.AndwetoldthereasonIremember,wesaid,youknow,Sam,youcanhearapindropafterthatline.Hesaid,oh,comeon,it’snotthatbad.Youcan’thearapindrop.Actually,youcanandwillproveit.AnditwasJerryGutierrez,I’mafraidhebroughtapinonstage.Itwasdownsortofinfront,sayImaygetBloodsworth,BotulinandJerryPenn.Andweallheardit.AndSamwasjustgoneforlike20minutes.Hecouldn’tstoplaughing.Sowewoulddothosekindsofthingsthatwerefun.IthinkthatalsoandIdon’tknow,likesomeweirdplaceontheInternettalkedabouthowyouthinkthathassortofliketoencourage,youknow,wildness.And,yeah,peoplewouldrunthenakedrunnersofGod.Well,thenperhapseveryoneyouwereyouwerealittlebitmoreeagerlythantherestofyou.Well,yeah.AsIsaid,hehehehandpickedact.Helikedactors.ThisisamanwhohadworkedwithOrsonWelles.Helikedsortofwildlytalented,unpredictableloosecannonswho,whilegifted,wereunruly.Hedidn’tthinkthatwasabadthingnecessarily.AndhewouldImean,whenIrememberthefirsttimewheninthefourthyeartheLincolnCenterschoolprogramssentusouttodoScapa,ashortabbreviatedversionofMoliere’splayforhighschoolsaroundthecityandaroundLongIslandandinalltheboroughsinupstatealittlebit.AndIrememberourfirstovernightwaswewentouttoPatchogue,LongIsland,andwealljustkindofwasonlyhalftheclasstothat.Andtheotherhalftheclasswasdoingafunnyteleplay,butweweredoingSkyPan.Thereweresevenoreightofusandwe’dpileintothisstationwagonwiththesetsandcostumesuponalittlerackontheroof.AndwedroveoutandJerryGutierrezandIwereappointedmonitors.Weweredeemedtheleastkindofunpredictableandunruly,whichisironictomeanyway.Buttherewewere.Itwastwoo’clockinthemorning.Wepulledintothismotel.Itwassnowingratherheavily.Bythetimewearrived,therewasaboutsixinchesofsnowontheground.Therewasaknockonmydoor,twoa.m.andIwasinbedwithmythengirlfriendwhowasinthecompany.Iopenthedoorandthere’sthreenakedpeople,SamandJerryandCynthia.Andtheysaid,heythere,becauseaswepulledintothemotelandIshouldhavehearkenedtothismorningsaid,oh,look,there’sathere’sathere’sabarcalledtheCanineClub.Let’sgo.Allright.Socutto2:00inthemorning.Theycomeinandstartjumpingonthebedsaying,comeon,let’sgetnakedandgorunninginthesnow.AndI,Iremembersaying,getbackin.Butwehaveaninea.m.performance,OK?They’redrunkasskunksandcompletelynaked.Andthisisamotelthat’ssortofonthemaindragoftown.Isaywehaveashowatnight.WegotoyourroomsandIrememberclosingthedoor,gettingbackintobedandlittlething.AmIdidIdreamthat,like,pinchme?Imy.Aretheycrazy.Well,sowhenwehadtoreportwellwhatwas,whywasJedsohungover.Becausehehadtodoallthisacrobaticstuffandwejustkeptwaitingforhimtotosshisgutsoutonstage.Somehowhemanagednottodo.Butinanycase,wehadtogiveafullreporttoJohnHouseman.Well,helovedit.Hewasfuriousbecauseandheagaincalledusallinandsaid,youknow,yourealizewhataprestigiousandimportantthingthisLincolnCenter,thesetoursareandbringingthese,youknow,andyoucouldhaveblownitforthewholerestofthedramadepartmentinthefollowingyearsbythisinsane,ridiculous,immature,unprofessionalbehavior.Andyoucannotdoitagain.Butsecretly,hesaidtomeandJerrysaidhethoughtitwasjustgreat,hesaid,anditbeganatraditionthattheystartedcallingthemselvestheNakedRunnersforGodandwouldsortofproselytizeamongthecompanyandgetotherstorunwiththem.AnditbecameduringthefouryearsIspenttouringwiththeactingcompany,thereweremanynakedrunsforGod.AndonesummerwhenwewereupinSaratoga,whichwasoursummerhome,HousemanwasuptherestayingintheSkidmoredormitories,whichiswherewewerehoused.Andhesaid,youknow,I’dliketoseeoneofthesenakedrunsforGod.Andofcourse,sotheytherewasalittlereceptioninthedormafteroneofourperformances.Andsureenough,sixorsevenactorscamerunningthroughnakedandthenJohnwentuptohisroom.Andlaterthatnighttherewasaknockonhisdoorthere.Acoupleofnakedrunnersgothimtocomeout,takeoffhisrobe,youknow,becauseJohn,thismanhadbeenaround.Thiswassonothingtohim,inaway.Buttherehewas.Andallofhisseptuagenarianglorydroppedhisrobetotheforward.Alittlepirouettethere.Now,canIgobacktobed?Andwejustthoughtthatwassocool.Hewasjustsocooltotodothat.I’mnotsureiftheseanticsarestillI’mnotsureMichaelcan’tmakeitrunthrough.Thiswasyouknow,thisiswhenstreakingwaswasalltherage.Thiswasawhileago.Youhaveyou’vecontinuedsuchastrongrelationshipwiththeschool.Imean,goingback,youknow,whatisthatwhatisthatsortofwhathappenedinthattime?Thatorisitfortheschoolorisitforthearts,fortheeducation,forthemean?IntermsofthethegreatalumniofJuilliard,youremainvery,verystrongforthem.IthinkbecauseIstayedinNewYork,becauseI’vebeenaskedtocomebackandteachandspeakandI’vemademyselfavailabletodothatbecause.IsortofIthoughtsecretly,butIdolovetheideaofinfiltratingbecauseIrememberwhatitwaslikeandIwanttogointhereandtrytohelpthese,youknow,strugglingyoungactorsthroughthatverydifficultperiod.Andalso,Isortofwanttogetinafewideasaboutgettingintouchwiththemselvesandnotrelyingontechniqueandreallyencouragingencouragingthemtobreaksomeoftherulesastheylearnthem.DoyouknowwhatImean?Insteadofwaitingforyearsandyearstotobreaktherules,somuchofthemisguidancethathappensisthenotionthatthere’sarightwaytodoit.Andwhenyougetlockedinthatmindsetthat,oh,IamIdoingthisrightisjustthisistherightwaytodoChekov’sistherightwaytodoShakespearesistherightwaytodocomedy.Youcanobviouslygetterriblyoutoftouchwithanyoriginality,anyspark,anysoul,anyrelationtorecognisablehumanbehavior.SoIlovetokindofgoinand.TeachwhatIcanaboutfollowingtherulesandbreakingtherulesandthenjustsortofremindingthemthatthereareotherthings,doyouthinkthatwhennowadayswhenwhenstudentsleaveJuilliard,Imean,maybetheydon’ttheydon’thavetheluxuryofthefouryearsoftheactingcompany.Doyouthinkthattheyit’ssortofatwotierquestion.Imean,they’rewalkingoutintoaverydifferentworldthanyouwereissortofoneandandtwo,I’msortofthinking,aretheywalkingintoaworldwheretheysitdowninanauditionandsomeoneseesJuilliarddownthereandit’sagoodthingorabadthing?Youknow,Imean,IthinktherearesomanygraduatesfromJuilliardwhohavegoneontoverysuccessfulcareersthatare.Anythingbutclassical,butvery,verymainstream,verycommercial,whetherit’slongrunninghitTVseriesor,youknow,illustriousmoviecareersinsomecapitalizingonacertainpersonalitythingthattheworks,othersinindoingdiversekindsofthings.Idon’tthinkthere’sanystigmaattachedtoJuilliardanymoreasbeing,oh,thisisgoingtobesomeclassicallytrainedactorthewayitwaswhenIwasthere.IthinktheywhatwouldIsuspectthatwhatpeoplethinkwhentheywhentheyseethatontheresumeistheythink,oh,yeah,well,that’swhereBillHurtandRobinWilliamsandChrisReeveandKevinKlineandX,youknow,numberofdozensanddozensofotheractorsandactresseshavegonewhoseworkthey’veseenandwhoseworkedsmacksnotatallofanykindoftechnicaloverexpertise.Yeah,IthinktheonlytheonlyImean,IguesstheonlythingI’veeverheard,youknow,istheoilthattheyhavetosortofspendafewyearsafterwards.Andwhatyou’resayingisyou’retryingtoinfusethat.Now,someactors,someactorshavetospendafewyearsfindingtheirownvoiceinawayothersdon’t.Iwasalreadybeforetheygraduate.Ithinkit’sadifferentworldthatthey’regoingintointermsofwhat’shappeningintheater.Imean,you’venowdevelopedacareerthatthatyou’reveryluckytobeabletoyoucangobackandmaketheaterthingshappen.Andalotofpeoplewho,youknow,wantedtodotheaterhadgoneontoothersuccessesandthentheygobackintheworks.Ormaybeit’sthereforthembecausetheyknewaboutsomethingelse.Andsothey’llcomeseetheminthetheater.Andnotthatthatexperienceisthereforegreat.Butit’sisthisisthisisthistheaterworldthattheymightwanttogointoterriblydifficult.AndIthinkthatthere’s,well,somuchproductouttherenowbecauseofvideosandcable.Andit’ssomanyitseemstomeanyway,thatmorethingsarebeingproduced.Andthereandespeciallyintheyouthmarket,therearealotofactorswho,whenthey’re25orhavepasttheirprime,there’ssomanytelevisionandmovieshowsaboutteenagersorcollegekidsorjust20yearolds,youknowwhatImean?Thattherearealotofjobsoutthereforactors,foryoungactors,muchmoresothaninmyday,inmyday,thekindofactorsthatwelookeduptowiththeDustinHoffmanandGeneHackman’sandandalsotheoldschool,theoldLaurenceOlivier’sandJohnGielgudandaswellastheAlbertFinney’sandthePeterO’Tooleandthosekindsof,youknow,theoldclassicalschoolofBritishacting.AndtherewerethekindofrougherBritishangryyoungmen,actorswhousedtheirownregionaldialectsandwhatevertheydidandthingslikethatnow.ButbutintermsofAmericanactors,itwastheactorswhodidn’treallycometoprominenceuntiltheywereintheir30s.Butforme,Irememberthinking,well,I’mgoingto,youknow,keeppracticingandpracticing.Andmaybebysomewherebetween30and40,I’llhitmystrideasanactor.AndIwasquitecontenttoworkinthetheatrefortenyearsbeforeIeverdidamovie.Mindyou,IdidthinkthatIwouldneverdomovies,thatIwassortofstuckinthetheatrebecausethat’sallIdidforforthe10yearsafterIgotoutofJuilliard.Ithinktherewasmoreofasensethenofofthetheaterasavocation,asalifeinthetheaterwassomethingthatyouthatwasattractivemoviesweresomethingthatyoudidif,youknow,yousoldout.Wewerequiteidealistic.SoforustotogotheideaofmovingtoMinneapolisandbeingpartoftheGuthrieTheaterforafewdozenseasonswasawasaveryexemplarylifeinthetheater,notremunerativeintheleast,but.IthinkIthinkperhapsthatwasmoreattractive,Iwouldsuspectthatnow,althoughIdon’twanttolookatitthroughrosetorosyhuedglasses,IthinkwealsoImean,IknowIgrewupwatchingmovies.Ilovetheideaofbeingamovieactorsomeday,butIdidn’twanttodoyouknow.Crap,Iwantedtodogoodmovies.Sosomemoviescamealongthatwerenotworthdoingso.AndasIsaid,Iwashappyhappilyplyingmytradeinthetheaterandgottoplaysomeofthegreatclassicalroles,whichIwouldn’ttradeforanything.ButIthinktheremaybemoreandmoreactorsabletodothat.Now,thereseemstobeIseealotofsortoffilmandtelevisionactorstreadingtheboardsinNewYork,andtheyhavethiskindofcachetbecausethey’reknownbecauseoftheirhitseriesortheirratherillustriousfilmcareer,whathaveyou.Andbutinfact,we’retrainedastheateractorsandarecomingbacktoitandgettinggoodpartsbecausetheyhavethatsortofacclaim.There’salotofthere’snoonewaytodoit.Andit’sreallyhardformetotosayit’sdifferentnowforthem.It’sexceptthatthereweren’ttherejustweren’tthatmany.Youthorientedpartsavailablethen,astherearenow.TherewasnoBeverlyHillsIknowtoowell,no,Idon’tthinkinthosedaysyoucouldbethesonoftheDonnaReedShow.Thatwasabout.Yeah,youbeoneoftheoneofmyendofthesummerexperienceisirrelevantinourpostmodernworld.Isthatgoingtobeadinosaur?Youknow,isit.Butyou’reaskingthewrongguybecauseIthinkI’moneofthoseoldoldkindofclassicist.Imean,Ibelievethatwecan’tlosetouchwiththose.TheVerrity,theeternalveritiesthathavesurvivedmillennia,there’sareasonforthatand.Ofcourse,Iaskmyselfwhyit’sjustbecauseIhappentolove,youknow,classicaltheaterandandhavesometraininginit,sothat’swhyI’m,youknow,goingtochampion.It’sit’spersistence.Idon’tthinkso.Imean,IjustI’msurethat’sapartofit.You’vebeenHuckabee’sheadofthedad.Heareallylongtimeago,whichIsortofunderstoodthathesaidthat,youknow,thatitwasitwasaprocessanditwasastruggle.Theschoolislikeabridgetothestage.It’stheprocess.Andthatitwasahugestruggletobecomeanartist.Andfinally,whenhegottoGiuliani,hewasataplacewheretheyweren’tafraidtousethewordartist.Youknowthatforhim,thatwasthe.Hmm,thatthere’ssomethingImean,you’refightingamyth.Imean,whatisthewhatisthemythoftheconservatory,themythoftheivorytowerofJuilliard?Imean,whenyougooutintheworld,it’sterriblyImean,whatdoyouthinkthatyouhearversuswhattherealityis?AndnotjusttheJuilliardofallofthesekindofit’skindofthesehallowedhalls,sortofafeeling.Ithinkpeoplearesuspiciousofitfromignoranceandfromlackofaccesstoitthemselvesonice.IrememberwhenIwasinmusicschoolbeforeIcametoJuilliard,onewasloathetocallsomeoneamusicianunlesstheyreallyhadmusicianshipthatachievedacertaindegreeofmastery.Andifsomeonesaidshe’samusicianorhe’samusician,thatmeantsomething.WhenIthenwasintheConservatoryofJuilliardstudyingtobeanactor,IneversaidIwasanactor.IsaidIwasanaspiringactorfouryearslater,whentometocallyourselfanactor,youhaveto.AndperhapsbecauseIhadthissortofthismemoryofthisthisideaofmusicianshipandthatthattherewasaquantifiable,howeverambiguouslyquantifiable,measurementofmastery,oftenconfusinglymistakenforpuretechnique.Or,youknow,Icanspeakreallyquickly.Icanmakemyselfheardinthelastroworfeltinthelastrowor,youknow,IcanIcangetreallyloud,youknow,orIcanjumpfromheretotherewearingthiscostume,thosekindofbasicskillsthatyoucansay,oh,Ilearnedhowtodothis.Youknow,Ilearnedhowtojuggle.Icanjugglefourballs.IcanIcanIcandothisbitoftumblingorthatbitofpantomime,orIcandoanIrishaccentandtwoandaGermanandaFrenchandlittleItalianaccent.Ifit’sacomedy,Imean,there’sit’shardit’sveryarbitraryandsillywaystomeasureanactor’sskill.Andtheyhavereallynothingtodowithactingtherealtherealthingofactingthesame.Nordoessomeonewhocan.Oh,man.Theycanplaythat.DoyouhearIplaythatChopinetude.I’veneverhearditsofast.Yeah,that’s.Butsowhat.They’renotthatpersonisnotamusician.Apersonisnotevenmusicalbuthighlyskilled.YouseewhatI’msaying.SoperhapsbecauseIcamefromthatdiscipline,Ihaveanappreciationfortheideaof.Thewaythewaypaintersandsomewoulddisagree,buttheoldschoolofpainting,youstudiedtheMasters,youcopiedtheMasters,andthenyoufoundyourownvoicewithyourbrushthesamewayinmusicandindanceandinthetheaterandthetrainingIgottoJuilliardgavemeanappreciationforsortoftheartofacting,actingasanartform,notjustasitsoofteniswithgreatsuccessandpopularityinourcountry.Actingisjustthekindofpersonality.It’s,youknow,it’sacharmkindofthing.It’sjustaboutbeingyourself.AndImean,peoplecomeuptofriendsofminewhoaren’tintheprofessionsay,youknow,itlookssoeasy,IthinkandI’maprettyfunnyguyorI’mpretty,youknow,Ihavealotofrealsoul.IthinkIcoulddothat.Andthefactis,ifyou’retalkingaboutmovies,theycan,becausemovieactingisnotwhatIcallacting.Somemovieactingcanbeabsolutelythefinest,youknow,thegreatestrealizationoftheactor’sart.Butthecameracanlieandcheat,canfoolandcamouflagealotthatonstagecannotbehidden.Andsothatkindoftrainingforthestage,um,it’sitissortofamorelikeanoldschooldiscipline,likestudyingtheMasterslikeandandplayingasayingthegreatrolesofdramaticliteraturetogiveoneasenseof,dareIsay,artistryratherthan,hey,theyloveme.Youknow,I’vegotit’snotdeterminedbythecutofyourjawlineor,youknow,thesparklingblueeyesorthatgreatmanlybodyorthatcharming,funnypersonality.There’sactuallysome.Discipline,skill,knowledge,someoneoncetoldmeartwasunprecedentedknowledge,Idon’twantagreatdefinitionofart,unprecedentedknowledge.Inotherwords,itimpliesatleastmyinterpretation,akindoforiginalitythatonceyouhaveallthetoolsyoucanthenactuallypossiblywithalotofluckanddetermination,becomeanartist,butnotnecessarily.Andit’salifelongstruggle,youknow,totrytofindtheartinacting.Butit’sbetterthatthatnotionwas,Ithink,instilledatJuilliard,thatitcanbeanartyoucanyoucanattain.Artistry.Itain’teasy,though,buthavingmastereditmyself,Icouldsayit’sit’sawonderfuljourneyandlookingback,havingachievedcompletemasteryoftheartofacting,um,Ithinkit’sfun.And,youknow,ifyouplayyourcardsright,youcanmakealotofmoney.It’ssoeasy.Andit’s.Yeah,onceyoulearnhoweasyitis,justbeyourself,youknow,andhavefun.
