Pirates Sign Marcell Ozuna
BySteve Adams | at
Feb. 16: Pittsburgh has officially announced the Ozuna deal. OutfielderJack Suwinski was designated for assignment to clear a 40-man roster spot for the new DH.
Feb. 9:The Pirates and sluggerMarcell Ozuna are reportedly in agreement on a one-year, $12MM contract, pending a physical. The CAA client will be paid a $10.5MM salary this year, plus a $1.5MM buyout on a $16MM mutual option for the 2027 season. A mutual option hasn’t been exercised by both parties since 2014, so that option effectively just kicks a portion of the guarantee down the road by a year.
Ozuna turned 35 in November. The 2025 season was a down showing by his standards, but he was still a better-than-average offensive performer overall down in Atlanta. He batted .232/.355/.400 with a career-high 15.9% walk rate, a 24.3% strikeout rate, 21 homers and 19 doubles in 592 plate appearances. That overall line was weighed down by a brutal stretch in the middle of a roller-coaster season. Ozuna raced out to a scorching start in April and May, was one of the league’s worst hitters in June, and then settled in as a slightly above-average hitter for the season’s final three months.
The downturn in production dovetailed with a hip injury through which Ozuna continued to play at less than 100%. It’s impossible to say for certain whether that, age, or a combination of both was the driving factor in last season’s dip in bat speed, but Statcast measured his bat speed at 75 mph in 2023 (86th percentile of MLB hitters), 74 mph in 2024 (81st percentile) and 72.9 mph in 2025 (64th percentile). Accordingly, his typically elite exit velocity and hard-hit rate both fell. Ozuna averaged 89.9 mph off the bat and logged a 44.4% hard-hit rate in 2025. Both are still decent marks, but they’re down considerably from the 92.2 mph and 53.3% marks he posted as recently as 2024.
While Ozuna ought to be an upgrade to Pittsburgh’s lineup overall, the fit isn’t exactly perfect. Beyond the fact that PNC Park is perhaps the worst environment in MLB for right-handed power, the Buccos’ roster is a bit cluttered with corner bats who could use some of the DH time that Ozuna will now command on an everyday basis.Spencer Horwitz and Ryan O’Hearn had been lined up to share time at first base and designated hitter, with O’Hearn perhaps seeing some time in left. Horwitz, after a slow start to his season in 2025, finished the year out on a blistering .314/.402/.539 tear in his final two-plus months of play. He’s locked into an everyday role. O’Hearn can play in the outfield corners, butBryan Reynolds has one of those two spots locked down.
Signing Ozuna, who has hasn’t played in the field at all in either of the past two seasons (and only logged 14 innings in 2023), likely pushes O’Hearn into an everyday role in the outfield. He has plenty of experience on the grass but rates as a sub-par defender there, whereas he’s an above-average defender at first base. Horwitz does have 604 professional innings in left field to his credit, so he could perhaps be on option in left as well, but all 604 of those frames have been in the minors — half of them back in 2019 and 2021. He’s played some second base, too, but that was a short experiment and the Pirates already acquiredBrandon Lowe to man that position.
Presumably, the primary alignment moving forward will have O’Hearn in left field, Lowe at second, Horwitz at first base and Ozuna at designated hitter. It’s not Pittsburgh’s ideal setup from a defensive standpoint, but the Pirates will make that sacrifice in the name of getting some quality bats into the middle of what has typically been one of MLB’s weakest lineups over the past decade-plus. Newcomers O’Hearn, Lowe and Ozuna will join holdovers like Reynolds, Horwitz andOneil Cruz, giving the Bucs a potentially strong top six in their order at the very least — and that’s before counting shortstopKonnor Griffin, who is the sport’s consensus No. 1 overall prospect and should debut in 2026.
Bringing Ozuna into the fold also seems to formally put an end toAndrew McCutchen’s second act in Pittsburgh. He could feasibly be a right-handed bench bat who takes some occasional corner outfield reps, but McCutchen played 120 games at designated hitter in 2025. Signing Ozuna clearly displaces him from that role, and it’s hard to see the two fitting together on the same roster. McCutchen recently met with Pirates owner Bob Nutting, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported last week — a meeting that came on the heels of the franchise icon voicing some frustration with the manner in which the team had handled offseason talks.
Adding Ozuna pushes the Pirates’ payroll to $102.25MM,per Ethan Hullihen, which will somewhat remarkably establish a new franchise-record for Opening Day payroll. It’s still a very modest total relative to the rest of the league, but the Bucs have spent more than $50MM in free agency overall and also taken on Lowe’s $11.5MM salary in a trade with the Rays. It’s possible there are additional moves to come. The Pirates have been in the market for third base upgrades as well. That market has been largely picked over, but there are still surely some creative options they can pursue on the trade market.
It’s not clear exactly how much more ownership is willing to boost the payroll, but the team’s reported four-year, $120-125MM offer toKyle Schwarber and the flurry of subsequent additions pretty clearly indicates that Nutting is willing to spend at levels he has not considered approaching in the past. The Bucs currently have a plus defender at the hot corner inJared Triolo, but he’s a well below-average hitter who’s capable of fielding multiple spots around the infield, so he could fit nicely in a utility/bench role if GM Ben Cherington can find a third base acquisition to his liking on the trade market.
Jon Heyman of The New York Post first reported Ozuna and the Pirates agreed to a $12MM deal.ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported the $10.5MM salary and $1.5MM buyout on a $16MM mutual option.
540 Comments
Ozuna from the Pirates
You stole my comment lol
This may double the payroll
Won’t be able to keep Paul anymore
They weren’t going to keep Skenes long term anyway. He will be traded before he leaves in FA. He, like Skubal will never extend and hi the market.
He’ll end up a Dodger or a Yankee. Same old same old.
I knew this would happen Ozuna or later.
If we’re lucky, Bob will marcell the team
You know Nutting is gonna happen, dude
It’s gonna be a fun season
NL Central will definitely be interesting outside St. Looey.
Hey! The Lou will interesting. Not much else.
Wow, go Pirates. I think Ozuna could still have some left in the tank.
Not that I’m a fan of the man personally, but baseball wise, and from an outside perspective, it seemed like his manager actively made it a point not to use him as the season went on. Like I know he was slumping, but his use just seemed odd to me, like his manager actively was tanking him further. Braves fans, any more info on how that situation played out?
Anyhoo, as a DH this makes sense for the Pirates. 12 million is more than I woulda expected, but still on paper this makes that team better.
Braves fan here. Ozuna’s hip was an issue last year…if he’s healthy the dude can mash. Burned his gloves three years ago so don’t get any ideas about playing him in the field. Disaster on the bases as well …pure hitter and good teammate since his off field disaster.
I do know about his hip, but after he seemingly said he said he was good to go his manager disagreed….
He had 592 plate appearances despite hitting well under .200 during June, July and August.
There was a stretch where he didn’t play when Drake Baldwin and Sean Murphy were just plain better options before the trade deadline when the Braves hoped to close the gap enough to be contenders. Other than that, he played a ton for a DH only who struggled quite a bit.
34 year old who had a injury on a losing team who is going to be a free agent. Makes sense to reduce workload.
Alarming thing is they didn’t sign him for 2026. Lil red flag.
@AI: Braves want to rotate players in the DH spot now instead of giving all the ab’s to one player. Acuna, Profar, Yaz, Baldwin, and Sean Murphy are all going to get DH ab’s. Probably most of them split between Baldwin and Murphy.
@NashvilleJeff So the Braves passed on a 900 or even 800 ops dh because they want to rotate some players? I don’t buy it. Think they think 2025 was as good as it gets for him. If not AA gots to go passing on 800 ops at this price.
@AI: Passed on him because he probably wouldn’t have gotten 250 ab’s w/the DH rotation plans Atlanta has in place now. Too much salary for a part time bat that can’t play a position.
Fair enough. Personally if I thought he could be a impact bat I don’t care about my rotation plans.
Profar is a bad defender so they will probably DH him quite a bit.
@Wade: He also had hernia surgery shortly after the season was over. Just talked about it over the weekend. Weiss made comments saying that Profar would be DH’ing more frequently than a lot of Braves fans thought he would.
Pirates fans will soon find out why us Braves fans loved Ozuna. He will impact other hitters and pitchers with his advice. A good pick up for the Pirates
He could have a better season than Eugenio Suarez who they missed out on.
Ozuna played more than he should have in the second half of last season. The time he lost was because both Sean Murphy and Drake Baldwin were better hitters. The injury certainly factored in, but they still gave Ozuna far more opportunities than he deserved.
Pirates taking in a wild card spot this year. I’m not a Pirate fan but I think they’re definitely headed in the right direction with some good players. Just my opinion.
Shhh I want people to still underestimate us
Dont worry about that, Pirates are likely to finish fourth in the division.
You’re right. How could I be so foolish.
Should say taking a wild card spot.
Only to get swept by the Doyers.
Was already worried about the Dodgers, now the freakin Doyers are standing in the way
The Doyers actually have a $500M salary total for 2025 and are paying a tax of $550M in order to insure that they buy the WS this year so that the Dodgers can be stopped at two.
I say that the Doyers are doing MLB a favor.
They are definitely doing their fans a favor.
Source – A fan
I heard Pirates pitching is a bit hit or miss.
The Pirates won 71 games last season. They are not making the playoffs.
You’re right. Teams don’t improve.
The Pirates aren’t winning 20 more games because of Ozuna lol.
The Reds got in the playoffs last year with 83 wins.
And we also got O’Hearn and Lowe who were both all stars last year and each had wRC+ over 110.
Oh, and we’re likely calling up the number 1 prospect in baseball.
So, it’s not unthinkable that we would win at least 85 games.
That’s right boob. They will win just 71 games a year for eternity. What is wrong with me?
Darren is a Dodger fan.
Nuff said.
Great signing. Think this means the Bart trade rumors will come to fruition.
Where can I find these Bart trade rumors
Chandler Rome–Astros beat reporter said they are interested in him (and had been talking about including him in the deal that sent Lowe to Pittsburgh).
Jason Mackey has said for weeks that he believes Bart will be traded.
Mlbtr should have posted them. Pirates articles seem to do well for them. Bart is a known name.
Not as well known as Bart Simpson.
how about alika williams?
I didn’t know he was a reporter now but not surprised. He also saying Bart would be traded?
I live and die for Bart trade rumors.
I thought Bart was in San Francisco?
That is BART!
Exactly
Dang. I was hoping the sox could get him.
Incoming hate post from Andrew McCutchen in 3…2…1…
This is funny. Might also be real.
Obviously the team got tired of waiting on him to sign.
He wanted to sign but they didn’t want him, clearly.
They could have treated McCutchen with more class.
Once they decided to compete they really needed to tell him that he wasn’t going to fit so he could retire, sign elsewhere or take a front office job.
If that decision was made months ago and it was communicated to Cutch right away then most of this comes down to bad timing. The year they want to step up coming just as he was planning his goodbye tour is bigger than him, and I gotta say most players don’t get to casually claim a bench role for a retirement tour. Many beloved guys ended up playing out the string in another uniform, including Harmon Killabrew, Willie Mays and Dwight Evans. It’s a gift to get that chance, not an entitlement.
Well stated, and if Pirates leadership can foul something up, they always do
I agree with your last line. It’s a performance business
Similar to what happened with the Reds and Joey Votto. The team is trying to compete and wants to build what it considers the best roster it can assemble, which means moving on from its aging star. The player is a super competitive professional who isn’t ready to hang it up, and refuses to accept the team’s offers to celebrate him into retirement.
You and I will
Never know what discussions were had between Cutch and the team. Cutch just didn’t want to retire yet. It doesn’t mean the team handled it poorly. It could mean that they held open the possibility he could return if things didn’t go their way in player acquisitions.
Except in Votto’s case, he actually did technically get to retire (and spend his whole Major League career) with the Reds, since nobody else gave him a Major League deal and he didn’t make it back to the Majors with the minor league deal he was able to accept.
@crise: Add Hank Aaron and Dale Murphy to your list of “beloved guys” who “ended up playing out the string in another uniform” to that list.
Meant to include John Smoltz, Javy Lopez, and Greg Maddux to that list of Braves who also didn’t end up in a Braves uniform at the end of their careers. Every franchise has a list like this.
Bite your tongue, Jeff. Maddox was a Cub! Braves were the mistress
Andrew Jones too.
Meckert they gave him a job when nobody else would and paid him millions of dollars for limited production. Even though he wanted to be a pirate and they obliged him was there really a market for him outside of Pittsburgh? Probably not. He could do them a favor and acknowledge that his career is over.
if anyone is looking for a franchise that lacks class look no further than the Pirates
I wonder if McCutchen was their fallback position in case they could not sign anyone who could offer more at DH.
Skeptical spot on. They told Cutch what their plan was. Told everyone.
Suarez Ozuna both appear to me and I would guess most people and probably everyone in baseball to be the superior player. Cherington basically said we love Cutch but winning is more important than feelings and we can’t sign Cutch with better options still in play. That’s how I took it. Seemed clear to me.
If they believe Cutch can play outfield (lack of playing time there makes me wonder) he could be back. Cherington mentioned another outfielder on his wish list.
There is absolutely no need to sign Cutch now.
He has always been the last resort this year.
If they had any class they would have told him that up front which Nutting may have done.
The writing was on the wall anyway.They are actually trying to win this year.
If he had value he would have signed a contract with another team.
Good for the Pirates.If Ozuna is healthy he may have one more good year in him.
I am surprised that they had to pay him what they are paying him but they may have learned a lesson with Suarez.
If he loved being in Pitt so much why did he sign with Philly then Milwaukee before returning once Pitt was the only team offering?
Good get for the Bucs. Nice offensive player to add to this ball club. Would not be surprised if he hits 30 HRs this next season.
Agree. Or he could be injury plague and finished. But it’s a gamble the pirates need to take.
He hits more than 82% of his balls to cf and lf. PNC is a “graveyard” for HR’S In those directions. Factor in Ozuna’s reduced bat speed leads me to believe your HR numbers for him may be high.
maybe because at the time theyweren’t interested in signing him
Get a third baseman and maybe sign Michael Kopech for late relief or closer and thats a great off season!!
Go Bucs
Wouldn’t you really rather have an established closer than a mop up guy?
Failure. Now gotta wish for Pirates to suck hard. Signing a wife beater over the other options is so sad and a sign they really are a loser organization.
If he went to the Angels might be a problem. Pirates it’s fine.
Typical comment from the blackpink troll. Changing his name to Never Remember and paying the TR fee hasn’t improved his nasty disposition. Just gave him cover to keep trolling. Still mutes everybody because he can’t deal w/the laughter and ridicule. Really funny to see the fools “liking” his troll drivel.
I never remembered why Never Remember muted me.
I must have disagreed with him once.
Thank you Nashville Jeff as I now feel better that I am not so special to him.
@Mendoza: He’s also a Cards fan. He has a special hatred for Cubs, Bucs, Reds, and Brewer fans. Pretty sure he’s got close to 100% of us here on his mute list.
I have to say I don’t know the gent and haven’t been victimized. Yet. It’s ok. I have AI doing that work instead
He’s had many screen names OT. He’s been “blackpink in the area,” Joel, and more. He used to get banned on a weekly basis before he acquired the TR badge.
Ohhhhh Blackpink. Ok
Hasn’t muted me. Weird.
Give him time AI. He’ll get around to you too.
Was he the Trade Acuna guy?
@kynyrd: Pretty sure he wasn’t. Very different styles of trolling. Trade Acuna actually came off as a Braves fan when he wasn’t trashing Acuna. Blackpink hates everything and everybody. Trade Acuna didn’t trash other people on the site—-just Acuna and Albies. Trade didn’t post much in the off season. Never Remember has something nasty to say on most articles year round. Before the poster known as “Trade Acuna,” he posted as NoMadBumNoNLCS.
The deep underbelly of MLBTR rears it’s ugly head!
How many DH’s are the Pirates going to be able to use each game?
9. Problem is, 8 still have to play in the field.
Just 1. For some reason fans think these guys can’t play the field which isn’t true.
I was just joking.
I know. Was replying to don or in general.
Is Reynolds Lowe oh earn going to win a gold glove I don’t see it. Might not be even average. Who cares. They are here to hit. Below 700 ops ok the defense is a problem. Other wise not a problem. DH is for late 30s fat slow. These guys are headed there but 1 more year they should be fine.
Actually,the way that it is now only Davis and Triolo and Horowitz are good fielders so you are not too far off.
AIGM
“Who cares. They are here to hit. Below 700 ops ok the defense is a problem. Other wise not a problem”
Such a poor way to look at it.
Every team cares about defense. Defense is always part of the equation.
A player who is plus 30 on offense and -10 on defense is equal to a player who is +20 on offense and 0 on defense. It’s not that teams “don’t care”. It’s that they don’t just see things in inaccurate binary farci fashion – “This is/isn’t a problem”.
The better a player hits, the worse their defense can be to still be a productive player. And, of course, vise versa.
You didn’t really disagree with him. He just set a static threshold at 700 OPS.
fpb
“He just set a static threshold at 700 OPS.”
A meaningless number. Literally, because OPS doesn’t make sense if you understand 6th grade math.
And also there’s nothing magic about a .700 OPS
Juan,if you read between the lines here,basically what Al seems to be implying is that since the Pirates were clearly the worst hitting team in baseball last year they are over emphasizing improving it this year to the point of not caring much about defense.
In other words they have to walk before they can run.
Pirate fans were tired of losing too many one run games when they had the pitching staff with the most shutouts in MLB.
ML
” of not caring much about defense.”
That’s a dumb idea. Defense matters. You should care about it relative to how much it matters. And it matters exactly as much as offense, and pitching. One run = one run.
“In other words they have to walk before they can run.”
Those are different words. I have no idea how they are relevant here
“Pirate fans were tired of losing too many one run games when they had the pitching staff with the most shutouts in MLB.”
If they add one run on offense and subtract one run on defense (per game) they will lose the same number of games by one run (if you ignore things like sequencing). A run is a run
Juan got issues. I said same exact thing just shorter with more emotion and in terms anyone can understand. Francis gets all bent on 700 ops. Just a easy simple example not trying to put on analytics clinic for a large portion senior audience still using batting average and era. Lighten up Juan try to have a lil fun.
AIGM
“try to have a lil fun.”
So much fun to post on MLBTR 🎉
You oversimplified to the point of meaninglessness
Every single person got it except you Juan.
Let’s dum it down some more. Put Ohtani in rf. His defense wouldn’t matter. It wouldn’t be so bad he would be a negative player. Put Ozuna out there unless he finds his previous hitting numbers it’s going to matter. 750 ops might not cut hit with him. But if he is a 900 ops somehow it doesn’t matter. Obviously you would play him at dh but in a world with no dh….
I am convinced that Juan is a computer bot who cannot think outside the statistics box because the computer would have to deal with humans.
He does not see the overall picture because he is a robot.
He rarely presents ideas but just criticizes the words and ideas of other posters.
Darn this artificial intelligence!
AIGM
“Every single person got it except you Juan.”
I got it. That’s not the problem
I just think we can discuss baseball at a 5th grade level instead of a pre-school one
“Let’s dum it down some more”
You’re going the wrong way
“His defense wouldn’t matter.”.
His defense would matter. Just like for every other player
ML
“He does not see the overall picture because he is a robot.”
You have it backwards
It’s AIGM who isn’t speaking to the overall picture.
What he is saying is that the hitting is more important than defense and especially on a team that was the worst in hitting last year.
The defense for the greatest hitters relatively speaking is not something that needs to enter into the equation.
For instance,I just read a stat on Soto about his bad defense but it did not stop the Mets from giving him a $765M contract.
AIGM is not saying that defense is unimportant which I think that that is the way that you are taking it.
In my first incarnations on this wonderful site, I never used the mute button. But my friend TheMan3 taught me life is too short
As such….Juan who?
ML
“What he is saying is that the hitting is more important than defense”
It’s not, though. One defensive run saved = one run scored
“The defense for the greatest hitters relatively speaking is not something that needs to enter into the equation.”
Of course it does. What are you talking about?
“For instance,I just read a stat on Soto about his bad defense but it did not stop the Mets from giving him a $765M contract.”
He would have gotten more if he played defense like Ozzie Smith
“AIGM is not saying that defense is unimportant ”
You seem to be
Any pirates fans concerned about Schwarber defense? It matter at all or they just want his bat?
You want gold glove Hayes at 3b or poor defense Suarez at 3b?
If KG wins ROY and contends for mvp do you care if he makes 30 errors?
Obviously it matters. He could have been even more valuable won a gold glove. But it doesn’t really matter.
You had Harper in rf so Hoskins could play 1b so schwarber could dh. Or Schwarber in left. You are just getting bats into a lineup.
Would a outfield of Schwarber Ohtani Soto not be the best outfield in baseball? Dang right I don’t give a it about defense. It’s not a primary concern.
Juan- I get it.
You just want to be contrary.
I don’t mute anybody but when you do not see and understand other viewpoints you acquire a reputation on this site and eventually become moot.
By the way,from a previous discourse,FIP supposedly says that the only things that a pitcher controls are home runs,strikeouts,and walks.
If pitchers had that much control don’t you think that they would choose to strike everyone out?
Then home runs and walks would become moot and no games would end because no one would get on base!Eventually no one would attend the games because it would be like the movie Groundhog Day.
But I digress.
The reason I say that is because your precious statistics regarding WAR seem to rate defense at much less value than hitting.I could be wrong,but it seems to me that in my cursory knowledge that that is the case.
And if you are correct why are the best hitters making by far more money than the best defensive players?
Please feel free to comment on my limited knowledge about that WAR statement.
I think that they just want his bat as he is a designated hitter.
He does bring fans into the stands.
But it is not because he is cute or runs fast or they want to keep him off the field because he is a horrible defensive player.
He must not be too bad on defense now though because he had a much better defense rating than your buddy Nick Castellanos.
But Ozzie Smith would be making $50M a year now if he was still playing during his peak years.
I was a pretty good shortstop too so I would be making at least $15 M a year even though I hit near the Line named after me.
Ozzie Smith never had a line named after him.
ML
“Please feel free to comment on my limited knowledge about that WAR statement.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about
“The reason I say that is because your precious statistics regarding WAR seem to rate defense at much less value than hitting.I could be wrong,”
You’re wrong
WAR rates one defensive run equal to one offensive run.
AIGM
“You want gold glove Hayes at 3b or poor defense Suarez at 3b?”
FanGraphs DC projections have them roughly even
Thus, I think their value is roughly even
This, it would depend on the specific makeup of my team.
The more ground balls my team gave up the more valuable to the team Hates is.
Defense matters
“If KG wins ROY and contends for mvp do you care if he makes 30 errors?”
You’ve put the cart before the horse.
If JT wins ROY and contends for MVP do you care if he has a 75 wRC+?
Defense matters as much as offense. One run on defense = one run on offense.
“Dang right I don’t give a it about defense. It’s not a primary concern.”
Do you understand that there is a difference between something not being the primary concern and not caring about it?
ML
“I think that they just want his bat as he is a designated hitter”.
What’s ML but for intelligence?
If he was an outstanding defender, they would not have wanted him as a DH and they would have paid him more.
Because defense matters
I never mute anyone because I would not be able to see what they write.
The strongest emotions are not love nor hate but indifference.
I generally get to the point that I just ignore them as there are plenty of knuckleheads on this site.
If the Pirates are actually decent next year what I am going to miss most though is not responding to the trolls with Paul and Buuba protecting the integrity of the Pittsburgh Pirates team.
We were not known as Ghostbusters but called ourselves Troll Busters.
I see that my friend, Tired had the right idea
@Mendoza I love Juan. I am here for one reason my entertainment. And Juan entertains me. I’m twisted I guess. And I am entertaining him. He’s knows I’m trolling him. This ain’t our 1st rodeo.They literally hold up signs with a D and a fence chanting defense. Everyone knows what it is and it’s importance. I dunno if it’s that important though. I still take a good offensive player over a good defensive one any day of the week.
That response was to AI and you are not even smart enough to know that.
You pick and choose what comments to respond to.
Or is just a reaction by a bot?
He did not answer the question about why offensive players make way more than defensive players.
He is not playing your game.He is serious.
One of the reasons I do this is to see if someone else has better ideas than me.
Juan is stuck in quicksand and does not know it.
I do not think that he is a bad guy but he is a one trick pony.
He is stuck on the fact that one defensive run saved is equal to one run batted in but does not understand that many more runs are batted in than are saved.
He does not see the forest for the trees and cannot acknowledge the others poster’s point,but just mumbles minutia in response to whatever words he wants to react to since his are not responses.
Paul and Washed have it right but I will not mute this guy ,but even worse,I have become bored with him.
As in another post,I said hasta la vista Juan.
Have a good time on MLBTR.
ML
“He did not answer the question about why offensive players make way more than defensive players.”
I reject the premise. There are not offensive players and defensive players. Most players are a mix of both offense and defense.
“many more runs are batted in than are saved.”
Sort of
There is more variance in the offensive capabilities of players than the defensive ones. It’s not that offense is more important. Teams pay for runs above replacement. There are more offensive runs above replacement than defensive ones.
“I have become bored with him.”
I suspect you’re bored of me for the same reason you’d be bored of a discussion on, say, the uptake rates of g-protein coupled receptors.
AIGM
“I still take a good offensive player over a good defensive one any day of the week.”
No, you don’t
You’re not taking, say, Christian Yelich (109 projected wRC+) over Patrick Bailey (82), or Dillon Dingler (98), or Austin Wells (97)
At least I hope not.
And why aren’t you? Because Yelich, despite being the better offensive player, doesn’t provide nearly the defensive value those other players do.
I said good offensive player not above average. I’ll take the catcher because signing Tauchman is cheaper that Caratini. The team I follow wasn’t in the catcher market so I have no idea what catchers were available. Remember Caratina and JTR.
Dingler and Bailey aren’t close value for me. Wells I’ll take over Bailey. Would take Yelich over Bailey if forced to in world where there was no other corner outfielders. But not the other catchers. Corner outfielder is just so easy to find. Dingler is so more valuable than Yelich Bailey.
AIGM
“I said good offensive player not above average”
Good is a very nebulous term. But you get the point
You wouldn’t put Yelich behind the plate over Bailey because, even though he’s a better hitter, he doesn’t provide the same defensive value that Bailey does
What you do not understand is that every player except DHs are a mix but some are much much more known as offensive players than defensive players and those players are deemed much more valuable by the people who pay ML players very high salaries.
Yes,there is much more variance in offensive capabilities than defensive and that is a reason why the best hitters are paid much more money than the best defensive players.
G protein does not interest me but analyzing supercritical flow rates in open channels and how accurate the Hazen Williams equation for closed conduit flow is in projecting head loss does still fascinate me but probably not you.
ML
“What you do not understand is that every player except DHs are a mix but some are much much more known as offensive players than defensive players”
I understand it. I reject it as a massive oversimplification that confuses the issue rather than enlightens it.
“Yes,there is much more variance in offensive capabilities than defensive and that is a reason why the best hitters are paid much more money than the best defensive players.”
Right. That’s what I said. If you keep agreeing with me, you’ll be better off.
I used to watch the Ed Sullivan show when I was a kid and they had a guy named Al Kelly who was a double talker.
You would follow along as to what he was saying but then you realized that he did not say anything but went in circles.
I apologize for calling you a bot Juan.
You are really Al Kelly.
I like Al Bundy
And Kelly. And Ted.
Bad Bundy I guess wasn’t entertaining for many. Fitting though as I heard the same about the super bowl game itself.
I understand that you can’t keep up, ML.
I’ve explained it as clearly as I can.
I don’t typically get along with most old people. This doesn’t seem to be an exception
I get along with everyone. Loved by all.
You forgot Peg Bundy
The heart of the show
Kelly was my favorite.
Juan- Old people don’t typically like you either Juan.
ML
I wouldn’t expect them too
Yep. Mine, too
The reason WAR weighs offense more heavily is probably because it is a guaranteed opportunity every player gets. If you play an entire game you get 4 shots to hit. In the field you might not get a ball hit in your direction all day. Some positions get more action so they are weighted more heavily for defense.
WBWR
“WAR weighs offense more heavily”
Why do people think WAR weighs offense more heavily?
An offensive run = a defensive run
I guess a more accurate term would have been: “The reason WAR is perceived to weigh offense more heavily”.
You are right I think it values runs equally on either side. I was just trying to keep my reply simple.
Wade-Do you really think that runs saved can be evaluated nearly as equally well as runs produced?
I do not and did not say that.
“Saved runs” would be pretty hard to quantify. How many runs does a leadoff pop out save?
Much easier to quantify runs lost to bad fielding.
Is Ozuna really worth slapping the franchise icon of the 2000’s across the face? Not to mention the current players who have seen what they did to Tellez and now Cutch. As an outsider, this is just a bad look.
Business is business.
Does anyone know off hand who Reynolds has listed as teams that he would not agree to be traded to? Im a Pirates fan, but the only way I see the Isaac Paredes trade working, is to flip Reynolds and his contract straight up for Paredes.
I know that the Yankees are one team on his no trade list
I seen the list. It’s out there somewhere. Most large market teams high taxes.
Don’t know what your thinking is on getting rid of Reynolds. He’s a better player than Paredes so by swapping them the Pirates get worse. Save some $ and long term commitment sure. I think Nutting likes Reynolds. Shut down a trade of him. Gave him a 100 grand. He’s a star in Pittsburgh. Players like him. Heard him called a leader. Don’t think he is going anywhere.
i dont think cutch would argue he is more valuable than marcell, even if it hurts him to admit it. it may be an unceremonious exit but i (and perhaps the bucs) would only seriously consider cutch at around 2.5 million, and he’d very likely see that as the insult however reasonable it may be
Cutch has to face the facts.
Is he really a team player if he does not?
Hopefully he has the class to accept the fact that if Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle had to retire he does too.
If Ozuna over Cutch means winning more games than absolutely. Most fans I seen aren’t that into Cutch anymore. If they win attendance should go up a lot. Think it’s going up already just from a exciting off season. Winning is the only thing that matters to fans. Making $ is only thing that matters to Nutting. Cutch other than his bobble head night and final game as a Pirate isn’t making Nutting more $. Ozuna could. Could hit 30 hrs. Hrs are exciting. Will create more wins. Wins means more $. Cutch much less likely to hit 30s. Would shock me if he did. Ozuna I can see it or at least 20s.
Players don’t care about Rowdy at all or even Cutch. Players are like Nutting. Like me. Like most people. They care about $. Many on here like to live in thjs wonderful fantasy that players want to play with Skenes or win or whatever. They are coming to Pittsburgh because thats who offered them the most $. They aren’t worried about Rowdy or Cutch they are looking out for #1.
Agreed, but you can’t put Tellez in the argument. Watching him admire long fly balls and jogging it down the line shouldn’t have endeared him so as to make such a decision unconscionable.
@Oldtimer…I put Tellez in the argument because the way the Pirates handled it was extremely poor, and in my opinion, pretty classless. I know I put that I was an outsider in my original comment, but I meant that more as a “I’m not privy to the conversations going on between players and the front office” because I am a diehard Pirates fan. Have been for my 43 years of existence. So maybe conversations were had between all parties that I don’t know about that could very quickly change my opinion, but all I can go off of is what’s reported. So…back to the original point on Tellez, they never should’ve allowed him to get so close to the bonus, then cut him. Period. If they knew they were going to cut him, why wait until he has 4 at bats left? I understand that “business is business” but that’s just a terrible way to do business. Truth be told, I feel like they did Tellez far dirtier than Cutch. Maybe Cherington and Nutting didn’t come right out and tell Cutch he was the 5th fallback option to Schwarber, but they did basically make it known that they were looking elsewhere. And as another commenter stated above, the farewell tour is an opportunistic gift, not a privilege.
No argument there. Agreed
kzw-I agree with you that the timing was poor with Rowdy.
The Pirates are not smart enough to be politic about it.
That is one reason though that I question the need for bonuses for most players other than those with recent injury histories.
Should have dfa him so he could had option to be claimed or signed by another team. Pirates were well out of it by then.
Should have dfa Heaney before giving him any bonus.
Washed-Tellez had the class to admit that he did not deserve a bonus.
kzw
“Is Ozuna really worth slapping the franchise icon of the 2000’s across the face?”
FGDC projection
Ozuna 117 wRC+, 1.4/525
Cutch 96, 0.1/385
I don’t know what the Pirates did that you consider a slap across the face, but Ozuna is markedly better at this point
It’s not about the projections. It’s about the failure to communicate. We all know that, statistically speaking, Ozuna is better that McCutchen at this point in their careers. Hell, I think Andrew knows it too, whether he wants to admit it or not. That said, McCutchen still wanted to be a Pirate (and still had a belief that he could/should be) to the point that he took to social media to air out his feelings. I said it somewhere else throughout this comment section that I’m not aware of the conversations that were had behind closed doors, but from everything that has happened thus far, Cherington should’ve made it clear to Andrew that he wasn’t coming back and they didn’t really appear to do that. It feels like they just kept stringing him along, signed a player marginally better, while still failing to give McCutchen some form of closure. I don’t think that that’s how you treat the guy who, was not only one of the best players in baseball, but led the team from being a laughingstock to relevance. Maybe you feel differently that I do, and that’s ok. I simply feel like Andrew has earned a level of respect (only from the Pirates, not every MLB team) that is greater than 99% of the other players that have walked through the PNC Park clubhouse doors.
kzw
“I’m not aware of the conversations that were had behind closed doors”
Correct
I’m well aware I’m correct. And it’s also safe to assume that judging by his actions and the things that McCutchen has said, he was never told that they weren’t ever intending on resigning him. He deserved at least that much.
kzw
“he was never told that they weren’t ever intending on resigning him”
You don’t know that they were never intending to re-sign him
I wouldn’t argue with Juan.
In this case he is correct.
We only know what has publicly gone on.
When a team is almost starting Spring Training and has not signed you it should give you a clue.
Nutting paid him $5M a year for various reasons but that 8s showing someone a lot of respect.
Has McCutchen showed that same respect in griping about this situation even complaining about the Pirates at the end of last year?
When someone uses the word “feel” they are thinking with their heart.
Sports are run by people thinking with their brains.
Don’t cry for Curch.
Even HOF players have to retire some time.
And most do not gripe when it happens.
We can simply disagree on this. You and Mr. Hands are coming at me telling me I’m wrong because I have formed an opinion on reports I’ve read from MLB Insiders and the actions of both McCutchen and Cherington. I’m sure neither of you have never done some reading, listened to reports and formed an opinion without having 100%, undeniable facts in front of you. And I find it ironic that you tell me, in this same comment chain that the Pirates weren’t smart enough to be political when it came to Tellez, yet the same front office, just one year later, is now smart enough to be political with the way they’ve handled McCutchen.
kzw
“telling me I’m wrong”
No. I’m not
This is what I said
“You don’t know that they were never intending to re-sign him”
Much different player in a much different situation.
The Pirates would be as sensitive as they can with Cutch.
My guess is that they did not look ahead with Tellez,and it caught Cherington by surprise at the last minute.
The Cutch situation is something that they knew about at the end of last year.
As several posters have pointed out Cutch was probably the last resort but that is not something that you tell an active player.
Cutch clearly wants special treatment and that is on him.
You aren’t allowed to guess that’s what happened with Tellez because Cherington didn’t come out and publicly say it. All that’s publicly known is that he was dfa’d needing 4 at bats for a $200,000 bonus. You also can’t say that McCutchen wants special treatment because he’s never specifically come out and said he does. You can say as many times as you want that he’s acting that way, but if he doesn’t come out and say it, you can’t assume it. Do you see how annoying that is? And we do agree that the Pirates knew about the McCutchen situation at the end of last year. And the Pirates had all fall and winter to prepare for it. And according to reports, front office members have admitted they messed it up. That isn’t a feeling. That isn’t an assumption. It’s reported. I’m not saying, and I never said that they should sign him to give him his farewell tour. All I have said is that McCutchen deserved to be told that the team was going to go in a different direction this season, because they knew he wasn’t contemplating retirement. That isn’t special treatment in my eyes. That is a sign of respect. That is treating a man, like a man. If Cutch then decides to leave that conversation and take to social media and act like a child, then at that point it’s on him. If you don’t agree with that, then that’s fine.
kzw
All I’m saying is that you don’t know what they told him, or didn’t tell him
Thus, you don’t know that they did this: “Is Ozuna really worth slapping the franchise icon of the 2000’s across the face?”
I agree that they should have communicated their intentions.
Maybe the intentions were to be open to him coming back, but also explore other options.
You’re correct. And I admitted as much before you even joined the conversation. So all I have to go on is the actions of a franchise who has made PR mistakes in the past, the actions of a guy who was the face of the franchise during the only seasons of relevance in the past 30+ years, an MVP, was beloved by most fans and thinks enough of the city of Pittsburgh to name his child Steel and the reports coming out on the matter where Pirate front office personnel has specifically said that the team screwed up. But I’m apparently not allowed to have an opinion because the facts aren’t laid out in front of me.
kzw
“I’m apparently not allowed to have an opinion because the facts aren’t laid out in front of me.”
You’re also allowed to NOT have an opinion when the facts aren’t laid out in front of you. That’s actually the reasonable position.
Well…you go ahead and continue to take that “reasonable position” 100% of the time like you have every day of your life. You must not vote because you have to form an opinion without facts. You just have to trust the words and previous actions of the candidates.
As I said before,and others have,the reason that they did not tell him for sure is because they did not know how it would play out.
My guess is that Cutch would have been signed if Ozuna had not been.
I think that Cutch wanted to be signed by at least a month ago.That is reasonable.At that point what you are saying is that they should have told him “no”.It makes sense that they did not want to do that because he was still an option.
It is one of those situations that are difficult.I think that the Pirates were hoping that it would resolve on its own which may have been not the best way but they were caught between a rock and a hard place.
I don’t disagree with a thing you just said, except the part where they should have told him “no”. I don’t think the Pirates ever wanted to straight up tell him no because he was always the last resort. But that’s where my problem is. I don’t think McCutchen was ever told he was. He sure doesn’t act like a guy who was anyways. And it’s not like this is normal behavior for him. He’s always been stand up and classy. And you’re also right that he kind of spoke poorly about the team after last season. So did Skenes. Nobody is saying anything about that. Both pretty well said “I want to win and what this team is doing isn’t cutting it.” Although McCutchen did make it clear without saying it that he’d leave. I can’t say that’s an “empty threat” because I don’t know, but it’s possible. Either way, I have no problems with that. That’s a leader being a leader. I simply feel the Pirates should’ve laid out a plan for McCutchen from the get go. “Look Andrew, we have a team that needs to go for it. We have to get younger and get more power. Two things that aren’t on your side. We have several targets that are ahead of you in the pecking order so you may not get a call until February.” Easier said than done? Sure. But that’s Cheringtons job. Is that special treatment, like you’ve said, in your eyes? If so, then that’s fine. He’s earned it. But to me, that’s respecting the guy who was the foundation and rock of this franchise during the best times any young fans have ever seen. At the end of the day, you and I are both Pirate fans who want to see nothing more than the team win. And I feel the way this was handled was just a mountain of a PR mistake that can (not will) prevent that from happening. Other players are paying attention. If that’s how their best player in 30 years gets treated, and they don’t win, why in the world would I want to be a part of that?
Like others have said,it would not be the first time that the Pirates flunked PR 101.
What you said that the Pirates should have said is absolutely correct.
If they did not then that is on them.
I’m one of the others that have been saying it. Which is why this bothers me so much. And it’s why I’ve taken such a strong stance on McCutchens side. I can’t remember if it’s you or Mr. Hands that’s been saying that it’s time for McCutchen to hang up his spikes but I couldn’t agree more. Truth be told, I thought he was going to be a waste of a roster spot last season. He sort of proved me wrong, but it wasn’t hard to be a stand out on the Pirates when it came to swinging a bat last season.
once again, sports teams throwing basic morals out the window in a flailing attempt to gain relevance they will never have.
So does this force O’Hearn to the outfield? If so I’d move Reynolds back to left and play O’Hearn in right in that ballpark, or maybe they still plan on trading Paredes. I would say they could package Horwitz for Paredes now but Houston wouldn’t really have a spot for Horwitz
O’Hearn isn’t the option in left that the article suggests. He’s barely played there and isn’t desirable anywhere in the OF. He CAN play out there, but shouldn’t.
Doesn’t force anything. If you can hit you will play. They will find playing time. I hope that things play out the way fans think. That everyone is healthy and doesn’t get tired and doesn’t slump and can play every single game. Make Kelly work a bit. Doubt it will work out that way.
@Dan…No, Horwitz needs to stay. Give him time to settle in at first and I think he’s going to turn into a poor man’s Joey Votto. The guy can flat out swing it. Let O’Hearn play RF, keep Horwitz at first and let Triolo play 3rd. His glove plays, regardless of his bat and for once in a decade, the Pirates can actually afford to have a glove first 3rd baseman.
Horwitz better more valuable than Paredes. They would hopefully just keep him and let Triolo Gonzales play 3b. Or get Paredes without getting rid of Horwitz. Or getting someone else for 3b.
Wow, the Pirates are spending $$, good for them I wish that the Mets would’ve signed him to DH
Pirates under Nutting have always spent $ when needed.
I guess you’ll have to explain “when needed” to me one of these days. I was reading your reply and just blew my drink down my nose
Every year it made sense to spend more than normal to fill needs they spent. Doesn’t get any clearer than that.
I didn’t think it was possible for you to become an apologist for Nutting. Yes, your explanation is as clear as mud
The Pirates have been a downtrodden franchise because the owner refused to spend. Maybe your caught up in the optimism of the moment but be serious. No one I know of ever thought the Pirates should spend like the Dodgers or Mets, but you’re saying guys like VanMeter are reflective of the owner spending what he needed to spent?
That marginal to acceptable free agents don’t want to come here is reflective of just the opposite: that ownership will not spend on players. That this franchise sank so low in the years after Hurdle is all on the owner. It’s fortunes are emblematic of that refusal
Washed-The way that I look at it Nutting will not spend any money for free agents unless they will make a real difference in allowing his team to compete for a playoff spot.
He gives market values to his own players for extensions.
They were one of the first teams to try to lock in young players into extending their control years.
Since it took Cherington six years to develop a potential contending team he did not spend before now.
To some it makes sense but unfortunately it can doom the team to awful years also.
Most years no amount of spending a small market has ever done could have made them winners. When your team is that bad it’s better to be 90 100 loss bad than a 500 team.
Can you imagine how depressing this team would be and be going forward without being bad enough to be able to draft Bubba TJ Skenes KG SH? Think about that. I’m grateful Nutting didn’t spend to get 78 79 80 81 wins.
You would also still have the same gm who made the Archer trade. You can’t have free agent spending while paying 2 entire management staffs. So you are keeping Huntington who did well but seemed obvious he lost it and needed to go unless you are a big Newman Kramer Craig fan. Meadows Glasnow Baz were good enough but he gave them away. Like seeing players do incredibly better when they go elsewhere?
Pretty clear. I pirates fan would see that Huntington needed to go and Nutting couldn’t buy free agents while paying previous management and with the farm system so awful even if they could spend $ they wouldn’t been able to win unless every single free agent did amazing and every single player stayed healthy. And as a baseball fan you should realize you can’t build a team from just free agency and if the Pirates had the farm system to make the needed trades well you wouldn’t needed to fire Huntington.
There’s pirates fans and there’s fans of complaining about the Pirates.
Now 2025 they should have spent being they were contending up until August in 2024 and the farm system was getting into place to support it. Unfortunately there was no free agents or trades available. Remember pirates fans wish list Conforto Kepler Santander Profar. All stinkers. Those stinkers then would mean no Ohearn Lowe Ozuna now.
Maybe pirates fans should start trusting Cherington just a bit? He’s not perfect but he didn’t sign those awful free agents fans wanted. Fans wanted to give Santana 13 million. We can’t trade the amazing Ortiz away! Horwitz over Santana looks like the better move to me. Why waste $ when you can get minimum wage Horwitz? Oh yeah just so Nutting can spend!!!!! Who cares about actually winning we want Nutting to spend. And you don’t want Nutting to spend because that would mean you can’t complain about you guessed it him not spending!
doom the team to awful years also.
Those years were needed. Like I said above but worth saying again again again forever. You had no choice but to be bad if you ever wanted to win. You need those high draft picks. Being in the middle is the worst place to be. You either have to contend or be awful. If you can’t win 90 games you need to be certain you won’t win 80.
Thank the whoever you thank that the pirates didn’t spend last year. No Lowe Ohearn because we still got Santander the power bat needed in the lineup! And 2024 2023 2022 2021 because I like Bubba TJ Skenes KG SH. They spent in 2018 though. Why aren’t we celebrating Nutting taking on that multiple years Archer contract?
Correction
Santana was asking for $8 million. Instead they signed Tellez for $2.5 million
No correction needed
Santana got 12m. Put 13m because he loved Cleveland but maybe 12m would have done it or maybe would taken 14 15. They got Horowitz instead. Cleveland traded Naylor. Traded for Horowitz. Traded Horowitz to Pittsburgh. Signed Santana.
I do not go along with that concept entirely because the difference between the best team and the worst is just the first draft choice.
It means something in basketball with just five players playing at a time or football for the best quarterback but baseball is different.
The Process of tanking does not work nearly as well in baseball.
That being said it did not matter too much as the Pirates were fairly bad especially when Cherington traded away his best players and in the end got next to nothing in return.
No true fan wants a 100 loss team.
The only good thing about being the worst team used to be getting the first choice in a good prospect year.
MLB got on to that though and the Pirates just really really really lucked out in getting Skenes.
They got Bubba because Cherington was smart enough at drafting Davis to be able to afford Bubba.
The others were around number six picks that the knucklehead GM’s passed on and Cherington was smart enough to draft.
Otherwise I agree with your extensive post.
Maybe fans should trust Cherington just a bit?
Really?
He has done well this off season.
But he has not developed any hitters at the ML level.Nutting has had to buy them
His trades have been much less than mediocre.
His owner had to fire his inadequate manager.
For all we know he is the one who dictated to that manager what lineup to use everyday,lineups that were revolving doors.
He has not had close to a winning season in six years.
I have some land in Florida that I want to sell.
Do you trust me that it is good land?
The difference between just 1 draft spot is Skenes Crews. TJ Green. Having KG or not having him. Angels could should have taken him. That 1 pick could have changed the franchise for decades. Maybe Crews becomes a mvp. Maybe KG is a bust. I think that 1 spot will be huge though for both. And it’s not just 1 spot. But it’s better to pick between 1 and 10 vs 11 and 18. 1 to 5 better than 6 to 10. 1 better than 2.
Type in tankathon. Plenty of fans root for their team to lose. Imo the biggest fans. They root for the pain because they know it will lead to pleasure. So hard-core they know it is what’s best for team. In their mindset at least. Maybe washedup rooting to play hard fundamental baseball is what matters is best for team.
Cherington didn’t draft Crews or sign Hoskins like many fans wanted. So yeah those fans should trust him I would say.
C’mon you know that Skenes was a no brainer.
I was for Hoskins but not for the rediculous contract that the Brewers paid.
You have a good point about the 1 or 2 places being important during some years.That is a strength of Cherington’s so he probably still would have got the best prospect,but you do not realize how draining it is to have a really bad team,especially for three years in a row.
Many many fans in fact it seemed the vast majority wanted Crews over Skenes. “We need bats” “There’s no outfielder prospects” “Pitchers get hurt all the time” “Need hr power” All the ranking sites had Crews #1 except pipeline who changed it just before the draft my guess because they felt Pittsburgh was taking him #1 and wanted to be on right side of history.
Cherington wouldn’t got the best prospect. Team drafting #1 is taking Skenes. Angels should have taken Griffin. Anyone would have taken TJ there so if 1 pick behind it’s Green and he was had to take. But winning 5 more games isn’t usually just 1 spot but multiple spots. Some years it won’t matter. Not picking high it doesn’t matter as much. Like not being able to draft Priester Gonzales Craig Newman Tucker isn’t a big deal. But in 2021 22 23 24 25 it mattered. Incredible it did so many times and in a row. It saved the next decade for the Pirates. That’s how much it mattered. Missing TJ wouldn’t kill you but the best College pitcher I ever seen. Best high-school pitcher I ever seen. A 6 foot 4 5 tool beast who can play ss or cf. Not hindsight I trashed the Angels as soon as it happened. Made fun of baseball America and fangraphs for having Crews ahead of Skenes.
How many franchise players have the Pirates drafted since the 70s. Bonds Cutch Cole maybe probably Kendall. 25 or so years vs 5 years Bubba Skenes KG SH. We hope. Pedro could have been thought of fairly highly and didn’t pan out.
Anyone who saw Skenes pitch throughout the CWS would have said he was a no brainer. Hands down, generational talent. I know most fans likely don’t bother with college ball but it was apparent.
mlbtraderumors.com/2023/07/pirates-select-paul-ske…
“MLB Pipeline ranked Skenes as the top overall draft prospect of 2023, while Baseball America ranked him second (behind LSU teammate Dylan Crews) and Fangraphs, The Athletic’s Keith Law, and ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel all had Skenes third.”
“Another pitcher that wont pan out. Shouldve went position player”
“Really thought the pick would be Crews. Pitcher health does not inspire such confidence…at least that was my logic.”
“Logic was that the pirates didn’t have confidence they would sign crews as rumor was he was asking for a lot so they took the best pitcher available”
This yourdreamgm person called it though.
“Crews is one of the best hitting prospects in a decade but has some flaws and flags. Langford isn’t far off, equal or better. But Skenes is one of the best pitch prospects in draft history according to most scouts. Got best player and likely cheaper.”
“Got best player and likely cheaper.”
Doesn’t get more clear and blunt than that eh? Places telling you Crews was better. Save your subscription fees.
Mlbtr has more hard-core folks. Twitter and fansites really wanted Crews.
“I wanted Skenes over Crews simply because the only way the Pirates get a pitcher with his potential is through the draft. The Bucs aren’t going to give out a 200+ million contract or trade a handful of top prospects for a top of the rotation starter. Can’t pass on chances to get a guy of Skenes’ potential in your system.”
“The Pirates took an extremely talented player, however I don’t feel they took the best player. Crews was the clear #1 to me. It’s very rare that you see a bat like his that projects to stick in CF. The Nationals got a gift.”
This yourdreamgm guy is good. Miss them on here.
“Pirates took the best player. You don’t see guys who sit at 98 and hit 100 or more often and late. 1 year track record is as good as it gets. What he did as a 2 way player was impressive. Slider is as elite as his fastball. Solid change up that has flashed good to great. Very athletic. Size.
You can find a Crews much easier than a Skenes. Riskier taking a pitcher but this is one of those few years you should.”
Miss them and the cornwhisperer
Cornwhisperer was one helluva guy Now he’s eating mashed peas and playing bingo at the North Hills Shady Rest
In seriousness, your feeling is that the kids the Pirates drafted out of high school is another Skenrs?
“I would have never passed on Crews.”
Oh no the cornwhisper was wanting Crews!
“I kind of looked at it as an everyday player who is also a big time hitter can give your team more than the 12-15 wins a stud pitcher can in a given season
Hence, I thought Crews was the better choice as the Pirates have little help on the horizon where outfield or power is concerned
But with the demise of Ortiz and Contreras, the timeline of Brubaker and Burrows actually pitching for the Pirates anytime soon, and the ups and downs of Oviedo, I couldn’t blame them as it would appear Skenes has the quicker route here. Hoping that he, Priester and Solometo are ready soon, too
Unless Keller can go on two days rest next season, of course”
Gonna be waiting on Priester a long time! Solometo will be ready well ready as he can be. Hasn’t reached his draft ceiling and frankly just have so many better pitchers. Solometo Harrington look better in systems that don’t have a Bubba Barco Hernandez and Jones Skene Ashcraft at mlb and used to have Oviedo Burrows. Can you believe your pirates would ever have so much pitching?
Wow! This Cornwhisperer guy?
Odds are there won’t be another Skenes for who knows 10 years 20 years I have no idea. Skubal just as good and a lefty but took him awhile to develop vs Skenes day 1. Odds are there won’t be another Skubal for years decades. Maybe hope for that next tier that is so good it’s a tier of it’s own Crochet. Likely see another of him sooner.
But if I had to bet on any prospect in baseball being the next Skenes I will take SH. Throws 100 in high school already. Knock on it is that it’s flat no shape. You know who had that some knock? You know who. As a pitching coach you unlike these idiot prospect ranking sites knows shape isn’t as important say when you can throw 100 mph. Change up can be a hard pitch to master that many many have failed to. His change up is elite. That’s a understatement. I never seen a hs kid that had a better one. Has feel for the breaking pitches. Super super athletic.
I only been into prospects less than 10 years. But best I ever seen. Seen heard older scouts say best they seen since a kid 20 30 years ago.
5 teams passed on him though. Then again 8 passed on KG. 20 some on Trout. What 30 on Judge.
Teams get scared of hs pitching. Want to see more. College more proven less risky. I disagree. As a mlb team you should be able to develop better than college. And more miles. These college coaches ain’t worried about pitch count. To me hs pitcher is a plus. Lower miles and less coaches got their hands on them.
It’s fun looking back. If KG SH Bubba bust I am going to be hearing it. But hey 1 is the best prospect in all of baseball and 2 others are 2 of the best pitching prospects all of baseball. I evaluate prospects. That’s it. What happens to them in mlb is out of my control! They should be fine though. I guess there is no such thing as can’t miss but if there is it’s these guys. KG has some swing and miss concern. It’s just his other tools are so loud it’s not going to matter. So he’s not a all time great but still a hall of famer. SH never thrown a professional pitch so a lot can happen with him. Let’s hope not though.
I’m actually stunned by the look back
I miss Tired Old Dude,the poster with three first names.
Give me a heads up if Ann Margret shows up.
I can be out there in five hours with the 70 Mph speed limits on the Pa turnpike.
I think that some fans should trust him because he did not sign Jesse Winker.
Hey now. Winker for me is like you and Hoskins. I wanted him until I seen the price tag. And dude had a 709 ops. Perfectly average. Where that rank on pirates? You’re dang right I wanted Winker! Not as much as Tauchman though. You could had like 3 Tauchman for the price of 1 Winker. 3 for price of 1 should have sounded good to Nutting
It’s pretty fun looking back. See what people thought at time. See all the old usernames. Many are still here. They just had so many bad takes they had to change their name. Not me. I knew I wanted Skenes But I freaking A+ destroyed that one. I went against all the Baseball expert sites. Would had to change my user name if Skenes stunk. Had to anyways because log in issue. Might have to change again because Jessie Winker didn’t win the mvp and Mike Tauchman didn’t win the hr crown.
I spent an hour before bed trying to remember if I actually felt Crews was a better pick than Skenes. What an incredible find. I’m dumbfounded. I don’t remember ever feeling that way and yet, there’s the proof
Uh, one note though….
I never changed names because of a bad take. I never claim to know everything and make mistakes. I just have had too many email accounts and passwords.
But wow. Talk about dirty laundry
Santana was asking $8 million to sign with the Bucs. Doesn’t matter what he accepted to sign with Cleveland
Why don’t you guys rent a room?
You’re right, my friend. I think I’ll back off for a while. Apologies
I never said you did washed. Your names are usually to memorable to get away with it.
It’s ok to been a Crews guy. Majority of people were. Including baseball America fangraphs law etc. Listen to them now and they all rave how they knew Skenes was going to be this good and special. If they knew they would have ranked him #1.
I think you are confusing 2024 and 2025. Why would Santana take 4 million less to live in a city he likes less. He wanted to come back to Pittsburgh in 2024 for 6m but they went Rowdy instead. Santana went to Minnesota had a great year 20 some hrs I believe won gold glove. Pittsburgh took rowdy over him. Had no interest for 6 so wouldn’t have any for 8 and neither would Santana when he could get 12.
Crews is in trouble though. Huge red flag in college was high ground ball rate and it’s 52 percent in MLB. Hard to be good doing that in modern baseball.
I’m trying to remember why I, as a pitching coach, would have flip flopped to that degree. I was amazed by Skenes throughout the CWS and yes, Crews had an incredible series, but to turn 189 degrees??? Odd.
Ever hear of Mandela effect? Probably isn’t that but it’s funny interesting.
Here’s my theory. So many people thought like you did Crews was better. You just seen him and Skenes. You liked both. Both impressed you. But you like Crews better. Then the Pirates drafted Skenes. You liked Skenes he was probably your 2 or 3 like most everyone else. Instead of bickering they didn’t take Crews you just accepted they got a great player still. Then he puts up those minor league stats. Does well in mlb. Crews does poorly and your mind just remembers always loving skenes and how could anyone think Crews was the better pick.
Now you got me thinking. I had Skenes tier 1 all alone the obvious #1 pick no other choice. But tier 2 I had Clark Jenkins Langford Crews. In that order but I wouldn’t criticize what any team picking 2 through 5 did as long as they took 1 of them. I believe they all did. Either way it was the most obvious top 5 a top 5 could be. But….
I remember clear as can be and even commented about that huge red flag his groundball rate. I no doubt had him in that tier 2 though. Those other guys didn’t have a red flag concern though. I should have never had Crews in tier 2. Should have been tier 3.
I don’t remember why I didn’t do. Maybe because it’s already pretty bold having Skenes #1. Now I am going to have everyone’s #1 not even in my tier 2? I think it was just dreaming. Well if they get him to hit ball in air more he will be just as good as the other guys. That’s it. But after seeing Hayes CSN Bae just pounding ground balls it’s easier said than done. Stupid mistake. At least I had him 5th and not 1st. But really I had him 2nd. I didn’t say lol nationals you just made a awful pick. I had no problem with it. 20 20 hindsight they say. Guy hits half his balls on the ground and I had him in same tier as a 5 tool cf. Really if I had to do it again tier 1 Skenes tier 2 Clark tier 3 Jenkins tier 4 Langford tier 5 Crews. Still gotta have him 5. If he ever hits ball in air more he’s contending for mvps.
But hey we made a clear statement. Notice you don’t see Juan or slider with cheese or Yankee fan there. They just run their mouths. Don’t put their neck out.
Your great asset to the site is knowledge of minor leaguers and draftees. No doubt about that. Sometimes some of your top guys don’t pan out but it’s rare you give props to just random guys.
But I don’t want to pat you on the back too much because it’ll swell your head even more
Crews had a phenomenal CWS, especially in the final couple of games. I’m taking it this turned my head where the anemic Pirates offense was concerned. And here, I thought I’d been in Camp Skenes all along
Strange for me to let go of a pitcher but perhaps Vanderbilt’s double duo of a couple years earlier —Leiter and Rocker—gave me pause as neither ever ascended the mountain of MLB
Inexplicable. Who knows?
I need to watch at least half of the college and minor league ball that you do
Appreciate it. I try not to get a big head. I’m confident snarky sarcastic as whole in real life but on here I really turn it up. I like being the heel a bit. I get bored or at least burnt out watching baseball. These minor league games don’t matter to me. But baseball America fangraphs mlb gms are so bad if I want quality information I gotta do it myself. And I don’t know how often you go to other teams articles but I grade pretty much every single trade. So I have to know what I am doing or I’d get hammered in the comments.
Secret though I don’t watch that much baseball. I don’t watch AAA much. Already seen those players every other level. I’ll watch SH start and when he is pulled 4th inning thats it I’m done. Or college I’ll watch Skenes first 2 innings go do something outside come back see if he is still in the game see how he finishes. Heck usually just watch it on rewind recorded. Skip right to parts I want to see. Will watch say if the Phillies 3rd best pitching prospect in baseball is playing the reds with 13th best pitching prospect I’ll watch that because I am scouting 2 premium players in one game. If no great pitchers are on the mound I won’t watch. I don’t know much about relievers because I don’t stick around to watch them. That’s were analytics come in play. For players I haven’t seen much. But many of them used to be starters so I seen them at some point. Mostly on a screen. I go to some games though. I’ll talk with some knowledgeable folks. Just a hobby. Usually doing work or another hobby while doing it.
Also good to know what the competition is up to. Brewers just traded well yesterday 3 utility players and got back a poor man’s Barco could be a #4 if not a good reliever and a Barco on steroids already a #3 if Milwaukee uses him correctly and some tinkering a #2. That’s how you do it though. Extend or trade. Every player is always available for a winning return. Money for nothing chick’s for free
Dream, I enjoy your insights as I do those of Mendoza and TheMan3. Don’t have to agree on everything and yes, I enjoy the sarcasm.
But you need to get another viewing of Mr Baseball. So many life lessons in it, besides the question, “Do you wanna see a naked picture of your wife?”
Japan I can’t go to Japan
I was bored watching it. I remember him being a Yankee. Had bad season. In Japan he came in locker room with shoes on and that got a response. Was he ever sitting in a sauna with his shirt off towel around waist with that sexy hairy chest exposed with a bunch of half naked Japanese men? That in the movie or just a fantasy of mine?
Yeah, many only look at him as the police commissioner in Blue Bloods but he was a favorite among women back then and there are a few beefcake shots, of course
I mean, who can forget this incredible script writing :
“Jack Elliot: Any of you guys speak Americano? Jack Elliot here bringing you the best in Major League thrills for the fellas, and free moustache rides for the ladies.
– Hiroko Uchiyama: I have seen “free moustache rides” offered on T-Shirts in America. Always by guys you would not want to ride with.”
How it didn’t win an Oscar is anyone’s guess.
Washed- Be careful with AI GM.
He works for the CIA and has access to artificial intelligence and also hundreds of people at his beck and call.
That is how he can dredge up posts from years ago when all of us were young and hearty.
We probably have even worse stuff out there in the cloud that he can uncover.
Ai has a bigger head than Barry Bonds.
Gotta keep you boys in line. What idiot thought Crews was better than Skenes! Ohhhhhh
Can you believe this tiredolddude dude actually complained about the KG pick!
“Another middle infielder and you call this A+. Ok.”
Glad this clown isn’t on the site any longer.
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/07/2024-mlb-draft-first-ro…
I want to thank you. I’ll be releasing a Greatest Hits album soon
I warned you before young man that AI is dragging you down.
Run while you still can.
Please don’t tell AI this but those A+’s were getting to everybody.
The only pitcher that I remember was this great this quickly was Dwight Gooden and he spent a year or two in the minor leagues.
Amen Paul.
Dream GM was solid. Wonder what happened eh? AI GM?
@mendoza. Fernando Valenzuela.. Like Gooden, made it to the majors at age 19.
I thought of Fernando too but I do not think that he has Skenes’ future or the future of Gooden of what might have been.
Fernando was very very good early and for a while but he did not have an era under 2.00 for his first two straight years nor really close to it.
Well, it closes the door on cutch coming back for good. It wasn’t a bad decision to not bring him back, and it’s an even better decision to upgrade DH. But in typical pirate fashion, they botched the move entirely
Didn’t botch it at all. Cutch doesn’t agree. You don’t agree. Nice chunk of others don’t agree. If they win no one will care anymore except the pirates fans that are just fans of complaining about the pirates.
they did botch it and even Cherington has admitted as much
I must have missed him admitting this. It happen today?
ever read other baseball related articles, Dream?
Example, they dfa’d Alika Williams a few weeks back, this site didn’t post it
No I am a company man and only read mlbtr. I do listen to podcasts though and never heard anything about it. Have no idea why Cherington would admit that. It’s news and a good topic so don’t know why podcasts wouldn’t talk about it.
Good for national media as well. Mlbtr should have picked it up. Pirates doing something bad is good click bait.
Yes but Alika got a non roster invite so you’re in luck, TheMan3. You may get to see him here in the future
he got dfa then no one picked him up because he blatantly stinks offensively
Philip-We do not know what they told Cutch behind closed doors.
No one of sane mind thinks that he could get any offer but a minor league deal from any other team.
He was not going to get $5M to come back.
There was a reason why they did not offer him a contract because he was the last resort.
If they told him up front that they were not going to tender him a contract he is the one who botched the move entirely.
He should have hedged his bet so that he could retire gracefully.
Pirates have got to do something because their rotation looks very good right now. Kick the tires on Ozuna as he was a beast in 2024,but last season seemed like the decline set in at 35 what is expected? if he hits more than 25+HR and bats .220 is that success
he was good until the injuries set in last year
If he’s significantly better than Cutch Tauchman or whoever else is left it’s a success.
It would also a success in that the naysayers cannot complain about Nutting actually trying to compete by paying this guy maybe more than he is worth.
But complainers have to complain.
They are complaining it took this long. They wanted him to spend $ on Hoskins Santander etc. Or when he was paying 2 presidents 2 gms 2 managers to magically pull more $ probably all the $ that he has just been pocketing that the other owners and players union just for some strange reason let him steal from the out of thin air and buy free agents as well. You know he makes just as much as all the other teams but he just pockets it all for himself right? Owners and players union just keep voting to have Nutting keep stealing their $.
I was never high on Hoskins. Saw too much of him to think he was worth what he wanted.
And I think again that you’re categorizing fans differently from the reality of things. It wasn’t that fans wanted huge signings but rather, it seemed like they aimed very low each year into the bargain basement
You can proclaim they had a master plan all along but that’s entirely doubtful. They found themselves in a difficult place. They adopted the TB blueprint you expounded upon here but none of their position players evolved. And they stuck with the idea too long hoping that by some miracle things would change and guys were on the cusp
They weren’t.
So you got dumpster signings to place-hold for a while.
I understand that not every team can develop young talent as TB did at the time. The fault lies in the draft—poor overall player pool as you point out—and even more in player development. They literally developed no one. In fact, players arrived here with such bad mechanics at the plate and with fundamentals in the field and with game knowledge that it was astounding. In guys like Cruz and Suwinski, just to name two, it still is
Their dealings in this period were mystifying.
Still were recently in peddling Bednar and Falter
To me, this paradigm shift came down to one thing: Skenes going public with wanting to build a winner here. Nothing more. It kicked them in the a$$ while giving them hope that perhaps—perhaps—it would win them some brownie points with him
I don’t believe Skenes had anything to do with it. Other than we have Skenes if we are going to win it’s now. But like I said anytime Nutting has needed to spend he always has. Just it’s only been a handful of years. Guy is shameless. It was just time to spend and he did. If attendance goes up over 2 million and there is baseball next year full season he will spend again and again until it’s time to reload hopefully or rebuild. If fans show up and the team looks like a contender still he will spend. Spend as much as Nutting can will spend.
The master plan was to not spend until we had a chance to win. Simple plan. Best plan I know of. I didn’t invent it but been praising it ever since I got into sports. If they hit on some trades or Gonzales or Davis was anything they might have spent more sooner. Would have been foolish though. I didn’t suggest Tauchman Grichuk Hays to impress or be cute. I did it because the free agent class stunk. Other years weren’t amazing but 2025 stunk.
I dunno. I would have traded Reynolds Bednar before anyone knew who Skenes KG were. Why does a losing team need a closer?
Speaking of which at first I was meh on Bednar trade and didn’t like Falter. Now I am more ok with Bednar trade and love Falter. Falter era is so fake. Lucky to get what they got for him. I just thought trade deadline lefty pitcher has to be valuable well not when it’s Falter. Cherington did well. I said when Bednar trade happened that Perez even though ranked much lower is the better prospect. I watched some video on him recently and agree even more so. Nice bat. No doubt catcher. Better than Davis. And Davis is perfectly average at worst but this kid can be a gold glove contender.
And Davis being better than average did not develop under Ben’s minor league system,he did it on his own.
Driveline training facility.
Want to roast Ben some more.
Gonzales if he is better built his own off-season hitting facility and worked out with Brewers SS.
Jones changed his fastball grip from recommendation of Harrington and gained 6 inches of movement.
KG had a arm bar when drafted. Fixed by his youth hitting coach, mark delrosa and Brian McCann.
Those are just ones I know of and that I can currently remember.
Hey I don’t care how they get better I’ll take it.
I read several different articles about how Skenes had pushed the brass with the Bucs to make the offense better including to Nutting
Someone on here posted during the summer they were going to spend $ months before Skenes said anything. And that someone is me. So they were already planning to go for it in 2026 before Skenes spoke up.
That tells me that the Pirates need better coaches.
And Cherington still does not realize it.
It also tells me that each of those players worked very hard on their own to get better.
Hudson Head should have gone to the same guy that Griffen went to.
And they should keep Harrington as the assistant pitching coach.
Lineup is much improved
This ends McCutchen’s career. It was a nice one. Welcome to the Hall Of Pretty Good, Cutch.
Boo I want to see him as a Angel or Rockie or White Sox or something.
You came on here after downvotes were downvoted.
Jay-He was comparing himself to Miggie,Molina,and Kershaw.
All first ballot HOFers.
Credit for the multiple moves to boost offense with short-term vets. Helping Skenes & Co. The NL wildcard is going to be very competitive-have to think massive spending NYM won’t inexplicably miss postseason as outlier again or NLC get 3 teams in. Milw/Cubs have to work a lot harder to finish ahead of Reds/Pirates.
Would still like to see a 3B added to round out this lineup
He’s washed up.
I am shocked that the Pirates would spend $12 M on an aging DH. I didn’t think Ozuna would get more than $5M.
It depends on how much you believe in ’25 where he played with a bad hip. He just turned 35 and still has the power. If he’s anything like ’23-’24 (where he finished 4th in MVP voting…as a DH…) then that’s a good signing. PIT needs these type of signings. I’d argue a team like DET could have used someone like him to upgrade the offense, but I’m unfamiliar with how they use the DH.
The Tigers have Carpenter moving between RF and DH. Jones and Keith cover when he is in the field and Perez covers the OF when Carpenter is DH.
I’m shocked too, but it’s become obvious the only way players will voluntarily come to Pittsburgh is if they are over paid
Cost what I expected
Caleb Durbin to the Red Sox from the Brewers. Paredes coming to the Pirates???
No, going to the Brewers.
Which LH OF do they trade the Astros?
They won’t trade Yelich (nor would the Astros want his contract).
They won’t let Churio or Frelick go.
Blake Perkins or Garret Mitchell are the only LH OF options they could give and neither are much of an upgrade over what the Pirates could give.
Agreed. Way to much of an overpay.
Doesn’t fill their fielding needs. Team has holes everywhere ! SP, 3rd base, corner of. And they better stop trading prospects theyll need to keep this window open !
DH don’t field
Have plenty of outfielders. What prospects have they been trading?
Which ones can they afford to trade ? MLB has Reynolds start left, right and dh lol. You do realize that’s the same guy 😆
They can’t afford to trade Reynolds OR Cruz, and neither had a good ‘25. But if the idea is to build a lineup, why trade from a position of some strength and make it a weakness? I mean, you’d bring in an iffy 3rd baseman and rely on a question mark in the OF? We’ve heard for years that they have OF prospects. They get here, do nothing and get on the train back to Indy never to be seen again
If the trade means something beyond a Bart and Harrington, or as Dream says, some prospect down the scale a bit, run from it and don’t walk
Easy there buckos, getting close to toeing that luxury tax.
I get that he is a franchise icon, but Cutch can’t just demand a spot on the team. If they don’t want him, maybe it’s time to retire. Also, I’d be a.little concerned about the big drop in slug that Ozuna had in 25 – from the 5’s to .400 – especially considering he’s 35.
Everyone is concerned why 1 year 12m. Pirates can’t afford guys who don’t have concerns.
I think Cutch can should still play. Just on a team desperate for dh or thinks he can still play outfield.
The question is would Cutch be too proud to play for $2.5M?
There are times when I don’t understand certain moves. I was eh on Yankees re-signing Goldschmidt to play 1st Base for $4M, Not sure why Ozuna at $10.5 + $1,5M is better–or even as good.
It isn’t. Just the cost to play in Pittsburgh.
Goldschmidt is 38 and has been declining for 3 straight years, while he’s only expected to be a short-side platoon player from now on
Ozuna is 35 and had one down year last year that was likely at least partially due to injury, who is expected to be in the lineup most days.
Lanidrac nailed it.
Their lineup now appears to be solid.
Not sure what they’re gonna do at 3rd though.
Looks like a wild card contender to me.
I must say that im surprised by this deal.
For the Pirates 12 mil is no joke. Even coming off a down year this is still a high upside pickup and i love it.
I agree this puts them in contention for a WC spot if the pitching is as good as expected
Solid in terms of chasing a wild card, sure
A lot of “if” factors with this kind of group. Cruz. Reynolds. Ozuna. “If” they can have productive seasons
Triolo is a solid defender. That’s fine. Maybe he can show some consistency with the bat
Most fascinating thing now is to see what Griffin does in spring, and what the Pirates do with him
The guys will be protected in the lineup at least
Agreed they still need a ton to go right and have suspect D outside of Triolo & Davis
But its the most optimistic lineup they’ve had since the early 90s with Bonds & Bonilla
Cruz Reynolds Ozuna always have productive seasons. More productive I dunno but 2025 was about weak as we seen from all of them so if father time doesn’t get them I don’t see any reason they can’t be better.
While its an overpay, they are probably going to have to overpay to get free agents to come there until they prove more of a commitment to try to win. I like the additional offense, but dislike the lineup fit. That said, there really isnt anyone on the roster that is of the level where we have to worry about blocking their at bats.
A RH power bat was exactly what they needed
They like most teams will have to over pay even if they win. Sure sometimes the $ is exactly the same or not a significant amount more. But majority of time someone is going to want you more and willing to pay more for your services.
If he’s healthy Ozuna provides the fear factor that was needed in the lineup. Cutch could not provide that. Can’t just throw lefties anymore, can’t just pitch around Reynolds and Cruz. As much as everyone loves Cutch, this makes the team better.
Well, it didn’t really need to be much to make a better team. It’s funny to me that they likely overspent for Ozuna while not doing enough to lure Suarez. Not that I was a big fan of Suarez but his power numbers from last year are one thing and where Ozuna is concerned, you can only pray that he’s healthy and can be some semblance of his old self
Agree about Cutch. But it’s too bad the front office bungled how to proceed with him. Unceremonious end to a great stay here.
Ozuna has same power potential with less strike outs and more walks. And cheaper. Washed up odds are higher I would say but reward is there. Ozuna had a down year. Had down years before. Worse than 2025. And he bounced back to put up mvp worthy numbers. He’ll be finished at some point. Likely next 5 years. But is 2026 the year? 12m is worth betting it isn’t.
I agree
He’s exactly what they needed.
Certainly makes for an interesting lineup
Now lets see if they go for a starting 3B or a backup to Triolo
If they go an land Paredes now, can we start calling them dangerous?
What do they have to offer though, Goku? If the Red Sox are “in” on Paredes, just how do the Pirates offer more? A backup catcher who reverted to form last year and a pitcher at AA? Hard to see that being a temptation to Houston
Some type of package involving Yorke, Sanford, Termarr, Gonzales, Suwinski, Harrington or Solometo. Maybe Barco.
I think the Bucs need to keep Bart for 1 more year while Flores develops. But if they think Flores is ready than Bart also on the table
Personally i think theyre prob leaning towards flipping Yorke or Gonzales for a backup 3B and start Triolo , but if Astros just want to get rid the contract then Paredes is possible
Reynolds straight up for Paredes!
Trading Termarr would be insane.He will hold down 2B for six years.
They’ve been saying this for years and hopefully, you’re right. But I think a lot of fans see him falling into this description that a great many Pirates middle infield prospects are concerned lately. Lots of hype and success on the farm but show little in the majors
Seems like Termarr’s trajectory has been slow
As for Reynolds, jeez, I’m not sure how you trade a guy who has accounted for a great deal of their offense in his time here for Paredes.
No, he’s not a center fielder but you know what you have with him. Beyond Reynolds, you have a lousy defender in Cruz and a lot of question marks
Couldn’t agree more OldTimer. Why trade one of the current 8 starters? Ok…you fill one hole to plug another. They trade Reynolds for Paredes, sure…3rd is done. Now there is a hole in left. Ok…now you play Mangum there. Better defensively than Reynolds sure, but hits like Triolo. Is Paredes that much better offensively than Reynolds to make the lateral move with Triolo and Mangum? I don’t think so.
Houston won’t be interested in Reynolds because of his contract. They want an OF who makes less than Paredes.
Termarr for Paredes straight up and Pirates dont blink an eye
I think Sanford TJ are too valuable. Think Cherington was the only gm stupid enough to give value for Yorke. But yeah anyone or two in that 11 to 30 range works or let another team have him. Not including Sanford Perez Valdez who are all in my top 10.
In your opinion, how has Termarr evolved? Does he look like an impact player at the MLB level to you?
Goku-Solemeto went to the Red Sox for Password.
Termarr is very young as they got him out of high school so let’s be patient with him.
Barco should be untouchable.
They can sign Jonah Heim and have two good catchers and not have to worry about their hitting.Bart could then be traded as the Astros need a backup catcher.
They need a backup shortstop so Gonzalez could be traded but only if they think that Connor comes up sooner rather than later.
Agree, my friend. It’s hard to fathom this being all the Astros would want for Paredes however. And I’d hope the Pirates don’t overpay with a promising arm
Impact depends on your definition. Better than Gonzales. He was never going to to be a SS. He was never going to be a good 2b. But he’s even worse at 2b than expected. When drafted he was thought to be a impact bat. Multiple all star. Now looks like above average bat maybe have a all star year or two. He can hit for average or power. Needs to pick a path I think instead of going for both. Bat can be loud still. Hands are still quick. Great discipline. He was thought of being Lowe but now looking more like Walker.
Gonzales Johnson aren’t so much failed prospects just the common thinking of oh wow 1st round pick. Top 10 pick. Weak drafts though. 2023 2024 2025 drafts they ain’t being taken in the top 10. Well you can’t count out the Angels and Nationals but they shouldn’t go in top 10.
But better than Gonzales or what fans hope Gonzales can be. I think Gonzales can be a bit better. Johnson just has a wide outcome still. I think floor is Gonzales ceiling low 800 ops. Likely 750 ops guy.
Thanks Dream.
Washed- If they trade Barco then you and I will force AI GM who is Ben’s best friend to confront Ben with us face to face and say WHY!
TJ is a tuff one. There’s a universe he’s a 30 hr guy. Just this universe I think it’s unlikely. I feel good about 15 though can see 20. Lots of walks. Strike outs not too terrible.
Fate has been with Pirates. Winning lottery in Skenes draft year. Angels taking a average 2b only instead of 5 tool stud KG. Teams not drafting the best hs pitching prospect I ever seen because he is a high school pitching prospect. And not to be over looked the Pirates being bad enough to draft 4th a d get TJ vs 5th and having to take Green. Both were automatic picks. Green total bust so far like mega bust.
I agree, Gonzalez could be better, if he chose pitches better
He often swings at the very pitch thrown to him
You’re getting me all warm and giggly with your posts today, Dream. I’m gonna go build a fire out back soon and sing Kumbaya. Not only are you pointing to a bright future for the Pirates thanks to the owner’s genius and GM’s visionary picks, you’re kind of asking fans to overlook what we’ve seen here for the last 5 or 6 years
Ok. I’m your Huckleberry
I like what the Pirates have done this off season. I’m uh, “excited” about the season ahead
But again, lumping fans into two categories, Pirates fans and Pirates complainers, is ridiculous. Most here are knowledgeable and long suffering. Few here ever expected big ticket signings. And I’ll say it again: I’m a fan who just wanted a team that hustled, played fundamentally sound, hated losing. .500 is fine.
But we’ve been treated to none of those qualities. Allowing subpar play, lack of hustle, poor fundamentals and general apathy are just as egregious as the inability to develop players where the GM is concerned.
And this owner has eyes in his head.
I think your types of fans is erroneous in that regard. You have true believers, analytics nerds and simply put, Pirates fans. I’d hope you’d have learned to appreciate the latter rather than castigating them
Guys was paying to entire management staffs. Now if he had the $ to do that and do a 100m plus payroll then the other owners and players union should take away revenue sharing or force him to spend it. Until then I will go with he didn’t have the $. And even if he did he didn’t have the farm system so spending that $ would be just as smart as burning it. But burning it would actually be smarter because it wouldn’t hurt your draft position. Basically Nutting spending $ in 2020 21 22 23 24 25 would have been stupid. 2025 because there was no one to spend the $ on.
Now 2023 he was active. Very active. Connor Joe. Choi. Hedges. Hill. Vasquez. Cutch. Filled his needs. Had best record in NL in April 18 and 8 or something. What happened? Contreras loses fastball. Brubaker tj. Vasquez tj or something. Cruz breaks ankle. Too soon. Farm system wasn’t in place to absorb all that. Even Choi got hurt missed most season. Tried in 2024 Taylor Rowdy grandpal. Yeah didn’t spend much $ and after 2023 who could blame him. Again wasn’t much to spend on. Hoskins yikes. Avoided titanic there.
No farm system. No free agents worthy of spending big $ on well other than Soto Ohtani etc. You just wanted Nutting to waste $. No. You didn’t want him to waste $ because you want to complain about him not wasting $. That’s what I thought. But now I got you. You want Nutting to spend 100 million every year and win 75 to 80 games every year maybe get to 81 or 82 or 83 once a decade. That’s fine. Sounds awful to me but to each their own. To Nutting did pretty much what I would have done so I’m thrilled. Next 5 to 10 years looks great and I am excited. And it wouldn’t have happened if Nutting spent $ on payroll.
You call me a apologist or Nutting fan boy. It’s the furthest thing from the truth. It’s just there is a blueprint for small market teams contending and the Pirates have followed it. It’s taking a while longer because Gonzales was never KG and Davis was never Skenes but it’s finally got traction.
And Cherington didn’t have great trade chips and missed on many of what he did do. It happens.
So you take issue with critiques. You don’t like the idea of questioning actions. And you generalize those who dare question into a category of “complainers”. People who complain for its own sake. Know-nothings. Whiny children. You give more credence to the analytics morons who never played the game past Little League
It gets old, Dream. I think your analysis of prospects and minor leaguers is outstanding.
Your views on big leaguers and transactions? About as good as any other fan here, nothing more. No amount of elitist bunk or revisionism where recent Pirates history is going to change anything. Please get over yourself
No I miss read you. I was taking you for one of the fans of complaining about the Pirates. I was wrong and apologize. I completely forgot you are happy with being around 500 every year. I talk to a lot of people. Just post whatever comes to mind. Quantity and speed are my priorities.
You want Nutting to spend 100m or more every single year. Try the best to win as many games every year. No rebuild no tanking. Do your best. I completely forgot you are the happy with 500 guy. My bad. I don’t remember everything. But you have seen the complainers who just complain about everything right? My bad for suggesting you are part of that group. Your bad too though for all the different user names. Although this one has some staying power.
You only on here? Twitter is full of fans of complaining. I heard the say spend Nutting win Nutting multiple times. Sell the team. Just about everything they complain about. Rowdy was awful. Didn’t deserve a bonus but it’s Nutting was too cheap to pay him. Too cheap for this. Taking Davis #1 was so Nutting could save $. Heck they said that about Skenes! Just an opinion but I see lots of fans of complaining. I saw it in 2013 14 15 as well and most of them went away until they started losing again. You aren’t one but they are out there.
I don’t want Nutting to spend anything just for the sake of spending. Why is this so difficult to understand?
I tell you that all I want is a team that’s fundamentally sound. Spend on managers and coaches from top down to accomplish that
I want a team that hustles and hates losing. See above
Add this into spending for good player development people.
Now you have the basics.
You BC has drafted pretty well. Too bad he didn’t have this blueprint in place.
If he had, I’d have wanted BC to spend on augmenting these incredibly gifted players arriving here
But they never arrived. No impact position player. Not Hayes. Not Jack. So spending came down to the bottom of the barrel in an effort to placate fans, like you have done with me via this posting. Fans…real fans…weren’t buying
And no amount of pierogi races, fireworks, a nice ballpark was gonna change anything.
You continue to misunderstand fans here and their viewpoints.
“I don’t want Nutting to spend anything just for the sake of spending. Why is this so difficult to understand?”
I understand that easy enough but when you say something like this right below here in quotations it makes me believe you just want spending to spend.
“No one I know of ever thought the Pirates should spend like the Dodgers or Mets, but you’re saying guys like VanMeter are reflective of the owner spending what he needed to spent?
That marginal to acceptable free agents don’t want to come here is reflective of just the opposite: that ownership will not spend on players. That this franchise sank so low in the years after Hurdle is all on the owner. It’s fortunes are emblematic of that refusal”
I would rather have van meter vs spending $ on players when it’s not possible to contend for a playoff spot. Spending any money to try to do better than van meter but not so well to win is spending money just to spend $ by my viewpoint. So the way I see it you want them to spend just to spend. I understand completely. You don’t understand. Hopefully you do now.
I didn’t want van meter. It was a trade. Took a prospect. I would rather they picked a fan out of the stands to play. I want as little resources spent as possible if they aren’t able to contend. Any spending when not contending is spending just to spend. If they could do better than van meter for same price great. But I don’t want to spend additional $ to get better than van meter unless it’s so much better it makes them a contender.
Oviedo got traded for Password
Pirates still have Solometo
My bad.I always got Samaniego and Solometo mixed up.
Old, Mendoza and myself are not satisfied with either sub .500 or.500 seasons
But in recent seasons we saw the writings on the walls due to mediocre signings, being competitive was just fantasy
Don’t include old. He posted dozens or hundreds of times he is satisfied with hustle fundamentals 500 ball. And that’s cool. I have higher standards but not the highest. I just want playoff contention every year. Wouldn’t go all in to win world series that leads to a massive rebuild. Can’t guarantee a championship so why bother. Put yourself in best position to win but don’t jeopardize your future. Many wanted to trade SH for Marte. That greatly risk a massive rebuild.
I just don’t think we can expect more here, that’s all. Skenes, Griffin are the icing on the cake. Maybe last year’s number 1, too
Maybe because of them we’ll get some excitement and playoffs
But I don’t even have an expectation of that
The worst things MOST Pirates fans abhor are lack of effort and fundamentals. The idea with being ok with losing. That was the Russell era. And the Shelton era.
I’m very hopeful things turn around this season
I rooted for losing. But I am not satisfied with 500. I want playoffs. We have different goals. Why we clash some. I clash with you and Mendoza the least though. You can detect my sarcasm and snark better than others. Anyways to reach my goal they had to lose and lose and lose again until the farm system was able to feed my goal. And now it is.
I am very excited and optimistic well as I can be about Pirates future. This is going to sound crazy and I am going to say something I don’t say often. I am glad Ben Cherington wasn’t fired and I was wrong to want to fire him. Not at the time. He was a absolute idiot for not firing Shelton. But back to that hindsight. No manager was making that team a winner. I didn’t know Cherington was extended for so long. We wouldn’t have these free agents signed if Nutting was paying for 2 management teams. Williams hired Cherington he’s even dumber. New president would want new gm who would want new assistants and vice and directors scouts analytics etc. Maybe Kelly stays if Nutting demands it. Would have won more games so lesser draft pick odds. I don’t know how many fans would hear and believe what I am saying but I am thankful Cherington is still the gm.
He had a pretty good off season too. Took some risk. 6 years of Burrows for a always injured 1 year rental Lowe a light hitting 4th outfielder and a reliever who doesn’t throw enough strikes to be useful. Not saying it will be that way but thats how it could play out. Had to take the risk though. Password might be Canario 2.0 Or could be good. That reliever cuts down on walks he becomes the closer.
Ohearn can hit. Impact bat. Lowe Impact bat. Mangum hit for contact. Has more power potential as well. Steal bases. Fantastic defense. If you like good outfield defense you are in for a treat. Might have to go back to van slike to find more entertaining. Ozuna could be Impact bat. KG Impact. No idea why spell check does that. Need impact impact impact. Fixed.
Playoffs? There’s a chance. Many other teams have as good a chance. Some better. Some bit less. Has to go pretty bad not to win 80. I am locked in at 74 and feeling really good about making $.
Pushing Horwitz to the outfield and leaving O’Hearn at 1B seems like the best use of resources. Will be fun to see if this Pirates groups can make something happen.
Horowitz has never played in the outfield, though he has played at 2nd base
He played OF in the minors though, and he’s athletic.
playing in the minors doesn’t translate well into playing in the majors
Each player is unique, so there’s no general rule that will apply to Horwitz here. He has professional OF experience and the Pirates would do well to allocate their resources by seeing if he can play quality defense out there this spring. What matters is how Horwitz specifically makes the transition, not what different players in different situations can or can not do.
Either or. O’Hearn probably better outfielder. O’Hearn will play 1b. Horwitz 2b. Ozuna probably won’t dh every game as well as the others playing every game. Horwitz may be a platoon. Rest days. Match ups. Injuries. It will all work out.
Where’s Lowe going to play if Horwitz is at 2B?
Yeah. I got a little confused there. Maybe he thinks O’Hearn can two places at once?
DH or bench or il
Lowe has a fairly often injury history so he will need rest and probably against lefthanders.
I think that that is when Gonzalez will get at bats at second base because Horowitz is not at his best against left handed pitchers.
They would probably move O’Hearn to first base unless Bart can be taught to play first base.
Having too many good players is a very good thing.
More rest during the hot summer days can help to control injuries too.
Nothing to get confused about unless you think Lowe is going to be Ironman and play every single day at 2b. I’m thinking best case he has to miss a few games in stretches, they give him days at dh unless you think Ozuna is going to hit like a mvp and able to maintain it without any days off. Few rest days.
Horowitz can play 2b ohearn 1b Mangum outfield.
Worst case Lowe to IL which has happened before. DL before that.
Don’t forget that Horowitz was one of the best hitters in the NL the last two months of the season.
He will not be platooning with anyone if he continues that hitting level.
I don’t think Horwitz should platoon. He’s a potential core hitter for them for years to come. Needs to play everyday if healthy. Molding him into a full time corner OF makes sense long term imho.
AI GM: Ozuna doesn’t have to hit like an MVP to warrant being in the lineup every day.
Yeah he does and even if he does he still won’t be in lineup everyday.
AIGM
No. He doesn’t
He just has to hit better than the other options. And none of them look like MVP’s
If a mid 30s Ozuna is in Kelly’s lineup everyday I will praise you both on this amazing prediction every chance I get. If not hopefully I remember to come back here this spring most likely and have a good laugh. Gotta give it to you. Bold prediction. If he wins the mvp he will do so without being in the lineup everyday. That’s my prediction. Not bold at all.
Makes Andujars $4M in SanDiego, that much better
Andujar was great last year for the Reds. Padres got a bargain.
A weak platoon who played in 2 hitter friendly parks and was lucky vs a full time dh isn’t too comparable.
I know you’ve always been down on him but when he came here, the team had no offense. He went down, tore it up on the farm and in his second call up did quite well. I mean, he did all you asked and then they sent him packing. Granted, they seem to have more of a hitting attack now and no idea if he’d have fit into this lineup but last season at least, he’d have been more than what they had
I was never down on him. I have no idea why they didn’t call him up. I would have. If they went him over Olivares Joe I would have been fine with it. Just he doesn’t compare to Ozuna. And if you wanted a outfielder there were better options this year. Can he play 3b I don’t know. If Cherington said he could and they signed him I would been fine with it. I just don’t cry over him. He wasn’t making a difference. Sure he was better than Olivares Cruz. If Cruz hit exactly like he did for Miami he would have been fine. Still wouldn’t have made a difference.
AI is Ben Cherington’s clone,and Ben did not like Andujar even though Shelton did.
Andujar would have been monumental improvement over the two clowns in 2024,and very helpful last year too.
Ozuna is much more of a power hitter when healthy.
That is what the Pirates need.
Not equating Andujar with Ozuna in any way.
I’m intrigued by what the Pirates have done this off season. I’m looking forward to how they progress and how Griffin fits into this
I’m just saying Andujar did fit what they needed and they let him walk, that’s all
I knew that you were not,and you and I always agreed on Andujar.
My point as you agree is that while Andujar may have been acceptable now the Pirates are wise in going for more of a power hitter.
When the music’s over, turn out the lights Cutch.
While we’d all have loved to have seen Cutch on a Pirates playoff team, the difference between him & Ozuna at the plate is huge
Ozuna can even play a little RF
Uhhh not to burst your bubble but I’d trust Bartolo Colon to roam the outfield instead!
Pirates RF is extremely modest to cover. We’ve seen Garret Jones & Henry Davis out there no problem
That said, Ozuna hasnt played OF in much, much longer than i initialky thought, so agreed its not much of an option outside of a game or 2
My initial sentiment was in comparison to 40 year old Cutch who def wasnt playing any OF
No problem? I must have seen a different Henry Davis out there. Maybe I just seen his worst games but looked like he had no feel for outfield. Don’t see Ozuna out there. Old slow paying him 12m doesn’t seem like he will see much or any time.
Ozuna is a DH pure and simple.
Henry’s arm was beautiful in right field,but in typical Cherington fashion,he did not develop Henry as a catcher,but instead threw him a glove and said “go play right field”.
Finally came close with my crystal ball five days ago, was just a little over on the M each year. Blind squirrel and his nuts I suppose…
“McCutcheon goes on Pirates coaching staff, he can coach em up and Ozuna and O’Hearn become better outfielders than they currently are.
Ozuna gets 1 yr 13.5M deal with mutual option for 2nd yr at 17.5M…let it be so!”
Other than none of this happening yet “McCutcheon goes on Pirates coaching staff, he can coach em up and Ozuna and O’Hearn become better outfielders than they currently are. You did pretty well!
I am so honored to have my own personal stalker…
Mr. Positive himself!
You are my sunshine my only sunshine!!!
Love hugs and kisses may our bromance never die
Stalker seems a bit dramatic. Guess I am stalking lots of people today in this article.
You can’t quit me!
You’re right. If you comment on a pirates transaction there’s a good chance you will get a reply from me. That crystal ball of yours is hot!!!!
Yup called the signing and mutual option on the second year. Freaky accurate I know…
Keep on a stalking and the unconstructive criticism up, it’s a good routine! Make’s comment boards and social media a wonderful place 😉
Good job.
Now when Cutch says you know what I am old and washed up it was foolish for me to want to keep playing baseball can I be a coach for you Mr Nutting? I will bow down to your greatness. Or Ozuna wins a gold glove or heck just gets nominated or more heck even gets me to say he’s not bad.
Until then you just predicted what anyone who knows a lil something about baseball could predict the contract. You didn’t nail it but came pretty dang close. I gave you credit for that. Nothing negative there. You have the negative problem. I poked a lil fun at you and you got all worked up. You predicted a slam dunk from half court and a layup and you are taking your victory lap on the layup. Lil soon so I poked a lil fun. Not a big deal is it? Relax a lil maybe? Now if the slam dunk from half court comes true you take that victory lap. I’ll sign the petition for mlbtr to write a article about your greatness. Until then part of your prediction came true, close enough for me at least. Well done.
You poke a little fun after in a previous conversation I write I will give you the last word and you write something like – you’re troubled, maybe you should talk to someone – so yeah you’re a stalker and generally provide quick unconstructive criticism. Keep up the routine, it really makes the comment boards a wonderful place. I again yield the final comment in this uplifting conversation to you.
Sucks to be an up and coming small market team, even when you have money to spend. You just end up bidding the price up for the good free agents, and buying the slightly moldy vegetables left on the rack after the big boys have eaten.
Maybe bid up Suarez but didn’t bid up the slightest Schwarber Naylor Valdez
Cherington is smart enough to not have gone further on Schwarber as that contract will be underwater year four.
I’m thinking that as of now they’re thinking Triolo at third and they’ll sacrifice the offense there because they’ve signed Ozuna. Who knows, maybe Triolo will surprise offensively.
Agreed. Given the depth of the lineup they just need triolo to focus on hitting singles late in the order
Im fine with an upgrade at 3B, but also ok with just adding depth there and rolling with Triolos run saving D
Triolo has also never been giving the chance at a starting job.
I think that he can be 260-270 hitter with 10-12 home runs a year.
Sort of what they had hoped for Hayes.
I actually think Triolo has more upside as a hitter than Hayes. You’re right in writing he hasn’t been given the shot. I tend to think the Pirates are done with roster construction now—a Paredes deal would surprise me—and think the question is now shortstop
Griffin? Or wait a few months?
Nick at short even though he doesn’t have the arm? Triolo at short? Then what happens at 3rd?
Spring training is gonna be interesting
Cherington might be on a roll,you never know!
I say two weeks in AA for Griffin then two months in AAA then assess whether he can help the Pirates.
If he gets ROY they lose one year of control.
On the other hand even though he is not a pitcher you do not want him being bored at AAA.
With all due respect to Derek Shelton who never really had the players,having reasonably good players will show what kind of manager Kelly is.
Mistakes now could potentially cause them to miss one of the wild cards
Triolo had a good August and September offensively: He’s not a typical power hitting 3rd baseman but he hits to all fields and has speed
O’Hearn isn’t a LFer. He’s been used as 1b/DH/RF for the last 3 years. and has barely touched LF. He has 12 MLB starts (and 12 chances) there in the last 6 years. The article dismisses Horwitz’s time in left, but Horwitz has more innings in LF than O’Hearn and most of O’Hearn’s were even FURTHER back in AA ball. Plus O’Hearn is 32, on a 2 year deal, and isn’t that much better offensively. You gotta give the younger guy who you have for 5 more years some kind of look out there….unless they want him elsewhere.
I really hope that neither O’Hearn or Horwitz are playing LF in PNC. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully they move Reynolds back to left this year.
I think that that is the best call.
Plus Reynolds’ arm does not play well in RF.
Agree completely…which is funny because, if I recall correctly, Shelton said Reynolds arm strength was one of the reasons for the move to right last season. He doesn’t have a poor arm by any means, more average, but doesn’t have that powerful RF arm.
I saw him throw home once on a fly ball to right field and it was a rainbow the likes of which I had never seen before.
I recall him as being a reasonably good left fielder.
Good for the Big Bear. Hope he mashes for the Bucs this year. Gonna miss him on the Bravos, but not for 12 mil.
I might actually have to be a Pirates fan this year. Nice little offseason they’ve had.
We only accept those that have stayed through the many many bad years.
@Mendoza Line 215
Okay, never mind. I’ll go cheer for the Dodgers then… Only team worth cheering for, anyway. Even the Yankees are crying poverty now. Bunch of babies. Just sell the team if you can’t afford to pay to be competitive.
The Yankees can afford to be competitive and should not sell!
You cannot mean the Pirates because they are now buying people albeit on a much smaller scale.
Please don’t cheer for the Dodgers.Their money does the cheering for them.
If you actually do root for the Pirates and not facetiously then we have a category called “honorary fan”.They save $1.00 on hot dogs and are privy in advance to which pierogi will win the race that particular game.You can make much money betting on the race with your friends so it is a very good deal.
The lineup is getting deeper on a weekly basis.
Finish things off with a Parades/Bohm acquisition, and maybe Patrick Corbin for the veteran LHP.
Corbin is done. Go for Gallen.
Gallen will cost a 2nd round pick. Way Pirates draft develop that’s high odds a future mid rotation starter.
Love Bohm idea but I imagine Philly does as well and is keeping him.
Fine with a lot of starters.
I would have loved Bohm here but since the Phillies missed on Bregman and Bichette, why would they trade him? They’re a playoff team. And Mendoza relates they don’t have anyone on the cusp, MLB-ready
The Pirates would have gotten Bohm if the Phillies would have signed Bichette.Dombrowski was downcast in losing him but he had counted his chickens before they were hatched.
If Miller and Kemp are otherworldly in ST there could still be a chance but the Phillies are all in in one of the last years that they will compete.
The Pirates will have a chance at signing him next year as he will not be resigned in Philadelphia.
It makes perfect sense for the offense. not sense on defense.
He is probably better offensively than he was last year but even if he replicates 2025, it is still an offensive upgrade.
it does make a trade of Cruz easier to swallow. Marcell really isn’t an Outfielder any more but having Marcell and Ryan covering right and a combo of Reynolds, Garcia and Mangum covering center and left should be adequate. Cruz would be a sell low trade though and probably not able to get what we would want in value.
Reynolds is not capable of playing CF, especially at PNC.
Cruz isn’t going anywhere. I’m looking forward to seeing how he does with better hitters around him.
His plate discipline has been horrible. He doesn’t seem to know the strike zone, is clueless about pitcher strategies where the count is concerned and has always had difficulty picking up spin pitches. And he waves the white flag against left handlers all too often
His defensive work has been shoddy and most pointedly, he hasn’t shown any signs of trying to improve any part of his game.
But I read his answers in both newspapers recently and hold out hope that perhaps he is maturing and that the commitment to working hard this offseason will pay dividends.
The Pirates made some nice additions this off season, but they need Cruz to have a good season and for the old Reynolds to show up
I don’t know that having better hitters around them will help, but it can’t hurt
tell us how you really feel about Cruz
Am I wrong, TheMan3? I watch the guy game in and game out, and yeah, he’s got a great deal of ability, but has he used it anywhere near full throttle?
I said this before and it was Pooh pooled but I think that Reynolds and Cruz suffered the most by continuously playing on losing teams.
Cruz is no longer the beau ideal of the Pirates,just another player.
The other chosen one was traded last year.
Another poster said that this is a critical year for Cruz and I believe that if he is healthy he needs to show clear cut improvement both on defense and offense.
He hit 103 against a lefthanders last year.Was Cherington smart enough to get a center fielder who starts against lefthanders?Maybe so.
I have said all along that Nutting would spend if it meant getting a good team.
I have to say that he has proven me right this year.
They still could use a power hitter at third base.
They could still use a good righthander who can close in the bullpen.
But all in all I think that both Nutting and Cherington have done a good job in trying to insure that the Pirates have a winning team and one that can at least contend for a wild card position.
Washed-No,you are not wrong.
However,like you,I have hope that he has become more serious about being a professional,and having a winning team can force him to concentrate better because his errors can now make a real difference.
And hopefully,Kelly starts Mangum in CF unless Cruz proves that he can hit lefthanders much better in ST.
Cruz is the modern day Gregory Polanco.
Too much hype, hardly any positive results.
Yeah, agreed. But in Polanco’s defense, at least by all accounts he put in a great deal of work to improve—especially after injury—and just couldn’t. Cruz has had a difficult time getting out of his own way. Again, he apparently got right to work after last season ended. Let’s hope
Polanco is a bit different. He did rather well when he was healthy and then never recovered what he had. He too was a freak of nature but never got to his potential.
He did have a strong run over seas.
Jtimh
“hardly any positive results.”
People are so weirdly negative
Reynolds certainly isn’t a great or even good center fielder for sure but also not the best at Left either. I don’t recall ever see him giving up on a play though. I think I remember Cruz doing so. If the pirates get a center or left field player with good range it would improve the over all defense taking some pressure off the corners
If i were able to get a controlled 3b with passable defense and solid offense I certainly would consider trading Cruz. Cruz’s freak potential is there but his time is running out.
They’ve worn kid gloves with Cruz almost from the start, apparently hoping that he matures into a big timer. They were reluctant to get him off of shortstop. Shelton never corrected lack of hustle nor demanded refinement of his play in the field, at bat or in terms of how he carried himself on the field. Kelly did, for one game
Trading him would represent an incredible sea change here and really, I’d wonder if the Astros feel inclined to deal with such a situation
Yes, you’re right. The clock is ticking on him but it’s not like other teams are unaware of his “progression”
I dunno. I’d prefer to hold out hope he has a good season right now
Cruz’s problem seems to be mental. He loses focus, doesn’t seem to know the count in the field or at the plate, gets butt hurt when he messes up. Supposedly he’s been working with Kevin Kiermeir to improve his focus. Hope it helps.
Ozuna outfield days are over. Been over. Maybe a few games if desperate. But if he is playing outfield that means he stinks and they aren’t worried about keeping him fresh and healthy and aren’t worried about winning games.
Hmm, not a massive fan if it. I guess it’s an upgrade offensively, but now O’Hearn probably has to play more outfield.
He might stay at 1B, and Horwitz gets moved to the OF.
I’d prefer to have Mangum in LF and leadoff hitter, but looks like that might not happen now.
Mangum will be a defensive replacement and hopefully start in CF against LH pitchers.
He should get plenty of playing time.
I’m glad the Pirates are finally signing some decent hitters. It’s been so frustrating to watch them wasting good pitching the last couple of years. Tough to see Skenes et al.trying to thread the needle to avoid giving up one or two runs knowing that to do so means an almost certain loss. It’ll be nice to see them finally getting some run support.
2 need dropped from the 40 man
I think that for Urquidy they may have been waiting for the start of ST and moving Jones to the 60 day IL.
Valdez or Cook goes for Ozuna.
Both papers reporting today that Jones’ rehab has gone very well. I’m hoping he’s back sooner rather than later
It was supposedly 10-12 months and I think that it was May when he was operated on.
I,like you,like that Cherington has been conservative in not overdoing the innings for these young pitchers.
They could also use the roster spot for two months.
Not sure when the 60 days start.If it does as soon as he goes on IL that may be the optimum usage since he would come off in mid April.
I’m still confused by him not being Braves DH on MLB the show the last few years because in real life that is all he has been. I expect them to put him in LF or RF on Pirates this year.
A lot of good work in a Braves uniform. Not the best decisions OFF the field…but good work on it. And well liked in the clubhouse. His hip hurt his production last year…don’t care what he said. He’ll get a nice ovation when he returns.
I thinks it’s funny when commenters pop off about off the field problems, as if they’d be totally cool if their “off the field problems” were public knowledge.
“I don’t condone his off the problems but…”
Um…ok. Not sure what you’re point is?
Fking auto correct! YOUR point…
You can tell this writer is speculating and doesn’t follow the Pirates and their moves all season. Pirates traded for 2B Lowe, LF/CF Mangum, and a reliever (can’t remember the name) while added O’Hearn to play First Base. Plus they have Garcia in trade with Red Sox that can play OF. The OF is cramped up and I don’t see Horwitz, Ozuna, or O’Hearn out there. Ozuna should the the lock at DH. Horwitz and O’Hearn man 1B with Horwitz experimenting at 3B and 2B? 3B is a nagging sore spot on the team and curious to know if Horwitz could play the hot corner respectably. I don’t think Triolo is the answer at 3rd and should be the utility man for the infield. There are enough options for the OF during the season. Just not enough bodies to cover the weakest position the Pirates have, 3B.
Maybe this is an indication of a trade coming to help our need at 3B? Parades and Pirates rumors keep popping up daily
Paredes pops up daily. Like Suarez did. And Schwarber. Seriously, what could they offer for him that wouldn’t adversely affect their already-thin offense
You say 3rd is a sore spot. From a hitting angle, sure. But Triolo doesn’t hurt them with the glove, that’s for sure. I’d wonder if putting Horwitz down there hurts that equation
Point is, whether via trades or positioning, you can’t take from your limited strengths and make them weaknesses. It seems like a very tenuous make up here. That is, not a lot of depth, not a lot of experience and a great deal of hope for good seasons. Doesn’t seem like the farm is ready to provide MLB ready depth and answers just yet although again, the Griffin story will be fascinating this spring.
Maybe they’ll compete for a wild card berth. Maybe they’ll be in the mix for the NL. Central because truly, what the Brewers have been doing is mystifying to me. But logic tells me they’re still in that 77-79 win window.
Will be interesting
@washed up The Pirates have 2 left handed hitters and a switch hitter from the OF in the current lineup. Houston is looking for a left handed OF. Options are Cruz or Reynolds (switch hitter) being traded for Paredes. That is probably the starting point of the trade talks as Houston could get more prospects depending on who they target of Cruz or Reynolds.
Yeah, I get that. But again, you’re talking about trading one of the few offensive contributors you’ve had. This is a very thin roster. I’m just at a loss as to how you make that deal, that’s all
Is Paredes going to be a better glove than Triolo at 3rd? Nope. Is he going to hit for better average than Reynolds (if he returns to form)? Nope. More homers than Cruz? Not likely, and I’m not much of a fan of Cruz anyway
So why make the deal? You’re taking “strengths” on this team and turning them into weaknesses
@washed up How is losing Cruz or Reynolds losing production? They both dipped last year in offense. Cruz hasn’t shown any significant offense upgrade post-surgery. With the additions of Ozuna, O’Hearn, Lowe, and Mangum, Cruz and Reynolds numbers could improve significantly and the idea of trading either of them, would be an afterthought. But if they don’t improve and further regress, this trade should have happened now. It isn’t an easy decision, but one that should be considered. Improving this club is the utmost importance if the Pirates are going to be more competitive than the last 6 years.
Improving the club is of the utmost importance and they have a roster in place that can in theory at least, compete for a wild card
You’re noting dips in the cases of two Pirates while trumpeting the abilities of newcomers.
Let’s be honest. Lowe hit some homers last year. Great. But average-wise he’s a lot like Reynolds, and he’s getting older. Mangum is a speed guy. O’Hearn was a good signing but admittedly creates a position problem with Horwitz here. DH is crowded with Ozuna, a 39 year old hoping to have a bounce back season himself. None of those three are bona fide outfielders. The kid they got from Boston needs developed
They’re stronger by standing pat than doing your proposed deal as discussed in my previous post. It simply makes no sense
Nor does Cruz returning to short.
I’d actually bet on Reynolds returning to form with some bats around him. And I’d rather be optimistic about Cruz than doing this deal
Lowe is a free agent at the end of this season and O’Hearn’s deal is for two years. What comes after that?
They will cross that bridge when they come to it.
Just be thankful that they are spending the money this year.
There may not even be a 2027 season.
@washed up 3B is the clear weakness on their roster. SS follows though. Even with Konnor Griffin or Tremarr Johnson, SS is the unknown but has bodies who can play the position. Maybe not elite level, but a guy like Nick Gonzales can field it and worse case, Cruz goes back to SS until Griffin or Johnson is ready. There is always Yorke as well.
The Red Sox have Abreu and Duran, who are both left handed hitters.
Sorry. I don’t see the logic of the Astros doing business with the Pirates. But again, unless for some reason they aren’t targeting one of the guys you’ve named here, the deal makes no sense for the Pirates either
Johnson isn’t a SS. Worse than Gonzales who also isn’t a ss. Cruz isn’t going back to ss, he also spent off season working on cf.
Gonzales could be placed there. More likely they use KG or trade for someone and Triolo is ss. Could trade for ss but less likely with fewer ss available than 3b.
Long term Sanford is no doubt ss so if he hits just a little he can take over and kg goes to 3b or cf. Sanford trending well but long way to go.
“Seriously, what could they offer for him that wouldn’t adversely affect their already-thin offense”
Any prospect or two in the 11 to 30 range. Pirates won’t miss them. Now if another team wants Paredes and they have a spare mlb player then Pirates are out. Red Sox seem out though. Does Tampa want him back? Not many fits for Paredes.
AI-Is Harrington,Bart,and someone in the 15-20 prospect range a fair trade for Paredes?
Houston needs a Lefty outfielder. I doubt they will want pitching and Bart
PiratesFan1981
You can’t always get what you want.
They have a 3b 2b dh already. So it’s either take what you can get for Paredes and have that $ saved to get a outfielder or reliever or 5th starter or bring Verlander back or have dry powder for trade deadline. Or Altuve in outfield again and Paredes at 2b.
Sorry, it posted the comment before I was ready. Anyways, for some reason I am hearing Astros are looking at Tremarr Johnson. I am not sure who else would be involved to make the deal work. Either way, the Pirates still need to make a corresponding move after signing Ozuna. Hopefully they outright Jack off the roster and that would be the logical move unless a trade is made. Maybe Bart or Endy for a low level prospect?
@Mendoza fair absolutely. I’d even say it was a win. Win win. Bart hits like a all star vs LHP. Harrington if seen as a backend starter 6 years control mlb ready. They may see him as a #4. Or more likely as a #6. Either way it’s fair to a huge win depending on their view point.
People see Paredes numbers and think that’s what they are getting but he will only have those numbers in Houston and Tampa. Boston less hrs but doubles would make up for some of it. Cincinnati won’t be terrible for anyone. But most parks the numbers go down drastically.
If no one else really wants him I can see 2 or 3 11 to 30 guys. Pirates don’t really want him I imagine. But he’s above average even in their park and if it doesn’t cost anything they like.
I like your trade. Pirates have better options than Harrington. Nice depth but can get by without him. Pirates won’t miss their 11 to 30 guys. Bart is only loss but just a weak platoon who they don’t like at catcher. Does Houston need a backup catcher I have no idea. Take Bart out for another prospect. Both teams are trading pieces they don’t really need to improve somewhere more useful.
Cherington could get stupid and trade Barco or TJ. Or maybe I am stupid and they stink and won’t amount to anything. But I think a good quantity trade is way to go.
Stafura Sterling Mueth Flores one of those would look appealing as a headliner. Maybe even get 2 of them or 1 of them with 2 lesser prospects. Last resort though. If any other team is willing to fill a mlb need Paredes goes to them. But if they are determined to trade him the pirates have a lot of variety quantity prospects to offer. Or Harrington Bart if that’s something they want.
I like TJ as at least a everyday 2b but if Pirates see some flaw and his swing has one they might be scared. And he is a 2b only imo. Even if he is more valuable they could get Paredes and a prospect in return or something else.
I don’t know who gets dfa. There’s about 8 options. I see value in Valdez but hard to keep him all spring. Jack could get claimed. A few pitchers probably need to go because of math not necessarily talent.
No you are not stupid.
Thank you for your normal intelligent response.
I had read on here that Houston wants a backup catcher.
I think that the Astros are over estimating his value,and that he is not exactly Hayes at third base.
TJ is still young and Barco should be untouchable.
Let’s give credit to Cherington for developing pitchers.
Problem is he has more value to them than any other team. His swing is perfect for their park. Probably would trade him for a mlb need like starting outfielder or reliever or whatever. Backup catcher a big enough need? Bart is more of a dh who can be put at catcher. He’s playable but you hope for better. But bat plays.
TJ Barco could be more in play. Maybe Nutting doesn’t want to spend much more $. Shocking but hear me out. Houston could eat Paredes salary. Not sure that’s worth a top 10 top 100 prospect but gets it closer.
You are thinking outside of the box although you may be flexible enough to not even have a box.
You may be right about Nutting,who has to see the $ signs leaving the park.
Barco is untouchable,and Termarr still has good value,but if the Pirates get a good AA prospect in return and the Astros eat most of Isaac’s salary that could be a doable trade just for Termarr.
They use two first-round picks on 2nd base bats — Gonzalez and Johnson — and neither one has been able to crack the lineup? Hope things work out a little better with Griffin. If he’s as advertised that could put them over the top and in the playoffs.
Geez, cut Johnson some slack here. He’s only 21.. His offensive numbers improved last in AA, where he was 2.5 years younger than the average. Give him two more years before writing him off.
Skeptical- These guys are too Skeptical on Termarr.
Johnson was too young and raw but on his way. Gonzales was just in a awful draft class with limited scouting availability with mostly the previous gms scouting development in place.
Solid pickup for the Pirates. Good power, something this team sorely lacks.
SMH
Should been a Castellanos trade….
No thanks.
He has the potential to be a much better hitter than Nick.
Nick would be way cheaper.
There is still chance for getting him though but the problem is now he would be best as the DH and that position is pretty much taken full time.
Nutting seems to be opening the bank vault perhaps in anticipation of the upcoming contract negotiation.
A little bit of an overpay. Considering his age and how close to Spring training we are
Fair pay. If he was younger it would be in the 20 millions multiple multiple years. Far as timing you aren’t signing Ozuna with Suarez still available.
Disagree.Suarez was for third base.
Ozuna was always for DH.
Suarez is awful 3b. Why he went to reds to dh. How awful would he be with Triolo a 3b playing ss or a rookie 6 foot 4 guy who is new to ss.
I’m sure Suarez would played some 3b for Pittsburgh but more dh.
You really think they were in on both? You one of those Nutting has tons of $ he just been pocketing it all folks?
Everyone but you was thinking Suarez for third base.
Counting inflation for the last five years the 2016 salary total now would be $130-135 M.
A pipe dream?Perhaps.
But who thought that they would give Schwarber that offer?
If they had signed both Suarez and Ozuna I think that that would have put them in the Cubs/Brewers category.
If their young pitching holds up they could have won the Division.
How many posters on here thought that Cherington was capable of making a very good trade and signing good quality free agents in the same off season,and that Nutting would pay for them all?
As you are aware I do not deal in hyperbole but for whatever reason or reasons Nutting is spending money as for him is the equivalent of a drunken sailor,so who knows how far he would go?
He went to the Reds as a DH because they have the best fielding third baseman of this generation of players.
If the HOF was just for fielders and Hayes has a medium length career he would eventually be entering it.
A lot to digest here. I was big on Suarez. Poor defense. Ton of strike outs doesn’t walk. Wasn’t against him. Wouldn’t been upset with him at 3b but figured he would dh a lot. If teams thought he could play 3b he would have got more $. Boston trying to trade for Paredes. Trades for Durbin. Just sign Suarez if he can play 3b.
My thinking was 3b a lot with Triolo at SS. Get KG some AAA time more importantly the extra year of service time. Then when he can’t win ROY June or so Suarez to dh Triolo to 3b.
Counting inflation for the last five years the 2016 salary total now would be $130-135 M.
A pipe dream?Perhaps.
Sounds fair. But…. Remember 2013 2015 people still had cable TV. Whether you watched the Pirates or not you paid Nutting just by paying a cable bill. Attendance was 2.2 2.4 million vs 1.7
But who thought that they would give Schwarber that offer?
Back to that 1.7 when you sign a star like that you sell tickets. If they had Schwarber vs Ozuna you like the winning season odds a bit better. Winning season sells more tickets. He wouldn’t be free but wouldn’t be that expensive. Schwarber bobble head probably more popular than wife beater one.
How many posters on here thought that Cherington was capable of making a very good trade and signing good quality free agents in the same off season,and that Nutting would pay for them all?
I dunno. 1 at least. There’s 1 idiot always giving him A+
Let’s see good free agent signings
Anderson
Quintana
Hill
Velasquez
Perez
Santana
Cutch
Rowdy
Grandpal
Taylor
Hedges
Frazier
Good in theory but didn’t work out
Perez
Heaney
Pham
Good trades
Choi
Choi Hill
Joe
Frazier
Stallings
Dyson
Hedges
Rodriguez
Newman
Horwitz
Santana
Bart
Vogey
Hayes
Ferguson
Falter
Rogers
Indifferent
Marte was fine at time
Musgrove fine at time
Bednar fair enough
Taillon meh but if Contreras didn’t lose the ability to throw a ball it would been great.
Trades could be better but nothing Archer level bad. Guys not trading away cy youngs mvps so gotta keep returns in check. IKF Cruz stunk but didn’t give anything up for them really.
Priester awful. Holmes lackluster got tricked by Yankees. Love the trades hate the returns.
That would be a good plan.
I am more piggish.
And you are right about Suarez although I saw him make some fairly good plays last year in very limited time watching him.
You and I have similar thoughts on Triolo but quite frankly most posters on here are right when they say he is just a good utilityman.
I liked Sean Rodriguez a lot and I think that Triolo could be him.
If they had Ozuna and Suarez in the same lineup with their other new players,and Griffin comes up and is the real deal,I really think that the Pirates could jump 20 games and have at least a decent chance to win the Division.
And I was hoping that both Nutting and Cherington agreed with me.
You have to watch really close and a decent amount. I just go analytics data. I’m not going to watch multiple Arizona games. I’m sure he made most the plays. Arenado will be a elite defensive player until he is 50. The balls he gets to. Glove will be just as good as it was when he was 30 and 20. Just won’t get it on as many balls. Balls he does get to he won’t get to as quickly. Throw will be perfect to 1b but won’t get their as fast as it once did.
Pirates look like 85 wins to me. Could go 90 or 80 I have no idea. Tell me how many games everyone plays and I will give you a real close win total. From May 20 something to end of season they were 2 games or something under 500 and added a lot.
Go Pirates!!!
Is McCutchen in line for retirement?
First in line if there is one. I dunno. I would guess he could still play if he really really wanted to and he might. Pirates aren’t the best of the best maybe they sign him still even though it might not be a good idea.
Now is the perfect time to cut the cord.
It is like taking off a very adhesive bandaid.
The quicker the better.
Nice pickup b/c Pirates needed a power bat in that lineup. If he stays healthy, he’ll deliver 25HRs minimum. Plus a proven winner, clutch hitting vet that’s great for a young clubhouse… If they can sign Rengifo to play 3B/Util on a “prove it” deal, and a decent RP w/ late inning exp., then the Pirates are extremely interesting in a very winnable division
Makes me think there’s a trade in the works for the Pirates. I’m guessing Barco, Cruz, and a lottery pick for a controllable 3B.
Maybe lottery ticket more likely tickets or better than a ticket. Cruz could be should be even better and they need him if they are going to win. Barco looks like a good lefty starter why give him up. Unless we are talking trading for a 800 ops with multiple years of control I wouldn’t advise trading these guys. Goal is to add more to get better. Not subtract. Unless you are trading Horwitz because you don’t need 2 1b.
Hope Ozuna’s streaky bat has a good year.
At least his compression sleeve will now match his uniform.
Ozuna’s career OPS In PNC Park? .605 in 150+ PAs
I’m a little stunned how any Pirates fan who has followed this team over the last decade wouldn’t like this signing. Last year they were one of the worst offenses in the history of baseball and people complain that this signing might push O’Hearn to the outfield more. That’s a problem I’m willing to accept for a legitimate bat.
We’ve seen years and years of nickel and dime free agents, bad trades, etc. They’ve turned around one of the worst offenses in baseball history into a division-contending lineup with no Phams or Tellez’s but legitimate offensive options all over the field. And Pirates fans still nitpick. Not this fan! Go Bucs!
You are correct. Would y’all rather have Tommy Pham back?
Actually I liked Tommy Pham a lot for his six weeks of excellent hitting and his top three in fielding left field.
I would have considered him this year if they would have needed a fifth outfielder.
1987-Complainers are going to complain.
They cannot help themselves.Unfortunately,most people do not seem to evaluate all of the facts about a situation and often look at it negatively in advance.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but they are often not based on reality.
There’s pirates fans and there’s fans of complaining about the Pirates.
Just stop. Ozuna doesn’t make them a playoff team. The east is loaded. The west always produces, and the central belongs to the Cubs
Low 70s for Ws. Firmly outside once again.
Not sure whether they can contend with the big market Cubs and the well run Brewers for the division crown withougt a power hitting third baseman but they should they should be able to compete with the Reds and other NL teams for a wild card position.
And that is a real improvement for the Pirates.
what makes them a playoff team is their elite pitching staff and an improved offense
Paul-I hope that you are correct but remember that most of these pitchers are very young and unproven over any sort of reasonably long time frame.
I will say though that it is a fairly exciting time to be a Pirates fan.
When was the last time that we could honestly say that?
lmaooooo
ima braves fan..i was thinking back to marlins would be the right place for ozuna..he still has house down there i believe..im guessing this news means the marlins were not willing to match 12mil guaranteed..his home runs last year seemed to stop once he got close to 300 career..like he was thinking too much about getting to 300..we obviously had a couple rough spots during his braves tenure but i hope he gets huge welcome back when he does play at truist again..long live happy marcel ozuna..go braves!
Good to hear a positive review of the guy without sour grapes towards his past. I hope he’s a better teammate than what people say. Our golden boy Skenes wants to win now so whatever it takes, I’m on board for a power hitting DH who can spend time in the field too. Is his D at least average?
His “D” is semi retired as he hasn’t wore a glove other than batting gloves in 3 years!
Ozuna is a great teammate, he is all the time talking to the younger guys helping them at the plate and being sure they see certain things. His past is in his past, as a Braves fan, he will be missed!
They do not need nor want him in the field.
What a terrible signing. You dont want Ohearn playing outfield everyday and paying several million over value. Wasted like 10% of the budget. Been better off putting the 12 mil in a high interest savings and collecting to give whatever necessary to keep Skenes forever
Likely won’t keep up with inflation and baseball salaries. Pirates have tickets and TV deal to sell. 2026 is a big year. Probably weren’t going to keep Skenes long term and it would mostly depend on new cba. Ohearn is here for his bat so outfield is fine but I am sure he will play 1b and dh as well.
Gotta love Ken Rosenthal saying that the Pirates have hit their payroll limit and therefore are out on Paredes.
The same Ken Rosenthal that said that the Pirates were aggressively going after Framber Valdez.
So were they aggressively going to give him $10M?
Analytics aren’t adding up on this eh
If that were true they would have hit their payroll limit with Schwarber.
They probably offered Valdez $15M.
Rosenthal thinks that that is aggressive.
I think he heard they were signing a Astros pitcher and just assumed. Or Valdez agent sold Ken a fairy tale and he ate it up. I haven’t heard what exactly the Pirates offer was? I heard about Naylor Schwarber Suarez. No mention of number or years or willingness or anything. Maybe didn’t see it but if not fishy
More money than I thought he’d get.
Will Marcell be taking his Snit-Bear with him to Pittsburgh or will he get a new Kelly-Bear to sit with him in the dugout?
This is looking promising.
They still need someone to back up 3B at minimum, as they currently list only Triolo on the depth chart. And SS is Gonzales and Triolo, so we’re an injury away from the immortal Alika Williams being an every day player.
Alika can pick it at shortstop,better than anyone else,maybe even Griffin.
If he could only hit 240 he could start for some teams.
They could do worse for two-three weeks as an injury replacement.
But they would bring up Griffin instead.
Neither are on the ML 40 man roster.
What a stupendously dumb decision to sign an aging Ozuna instead of Cutch, especially when they’re paying him 2 to 5x what Cutch would have commanded.
I agree because Cutch is an up and coming young player.
Him and cruz, 2 of the dumbest guys in the league
I think this is another excellent signing. With all the other moves this winter, I think the pirates can be a playoff team. And with that starting pitching, a short series looks every winnable.
Now I admit I was starting to sour on the buccos. But these are very positive moves.
Im hoping some of the posts that still rant and rave about how the pirates will stink.
Give them a chance. See what happens. After all if you keep eating sour grapes, that makes a person sour.
Good Signing. But Pirates have no spot for Andrew McCutchen…
Makes it a real good signing then!
Here’s a spot for Cutch
The Haven at North Hills Senior Residence
You laugh. But you haven’t been there for polka night.
That’s a good reply to what I think is a good reply.
I gotta watch out. I already got a reputation as a Andujar hater. Now I am going to be the Cutch hater!
OK here we go boo hoo we lost Cutch just like Andujar. Fire Cherington. Sell the team Bob. Would had made playoffs with Cutch Andujar.
Andujar inflated his stats in a minor league park maybe Cutch can inflate his in Japan!
If Ann Margret goes there I will learn to dance the Polka.
I have defeated many women on the dance floor,as in stubbing their toes,causing lisfranc fractures,breaking ankles,etc.
When I would ask some to dance they would scream and run the other way while they still had good feet to use.
The Pirates bungled the Cutch situation at least in terms of what we know publicly but boy, Cutch has come off as whiny in all of this. Roethlisberger did this with the Steelers, of course. It’s like a refusal to understand that teams must prepare for a time when their stars have aged. What comes after them. I enjoyed watching the guy play but the team had to move on
I heard Cherington at pirates fest. Fan asked about Cutch. How I heard it is qe love him blah blah but #1 goal is winning in 2026 and we have to get whoever helps us accomplish that the most and can’t sign Cutch until those other options aren’t available. How I took it.
If they didn’t sign Ozuna I feel like Cutch would been signed. Who else is left? Ozuna hit like a MVP in 2024. Cutch hasn’t since what 2015? Somewhere around there. If Ozuna hit anywhere near 2023 2024 pirates make playoffs. If he hits like 2025 he’s still better than Cutch.
If Cutch can play outfield sign him as 4th 5th outfielder. If not this town ain’t big enough for both.
Ozuna you are dreaming of a bounce back. Cutch you are dreaming his stats stay the same and don’t plummet of a cliff.
Good for the pirates and Ozuna here. I like this deal for both parties. I wanted him back as a bench power bat from the right side but not at this cost. He’d have to cost like $6 mil. He’ll play more with them and have an impact. I’m confident he’s on the decline but still productive enough
BTC-As long time Pirate fans we both know that we have had good reasons to complain.
But one has to have an open mind in life in order to move forward.
Let’s give credit to both Nutting and Cherington who have basically done their jobs well this off season.
We finally have a Spring Training and season to actually look forward to instead of hoping for miracles.
They may end up not even being 500 but it will not be for a lack of trying to clearly improve the team..
TheMan3 just replying to you down here because I want to be like Mendoza and have it down here.
You were actually better as YourDreamGM.
Great pickup, Pirates! I can see them making the playoffs this year.
HahahahahahahahahhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It’s possible. Need a lot to go right, but at least they have some upside at pretty much every position
Ozuna nutting pirates
What a headline
Lets go bucs!
Let’s just put it this way. Not my favorite signing… he was supposed to sign with my Guardians!!
Big signing with the Pirates: exerting their market power. All world players in Ozinga and Cutch. In other news, wonder if this kid Romney has a chance this November. Barack’s election to lose with all the hopey change a happenin round town. Wonder if Coldplay is going on tour. Maybe ask that cute lady in HR if she’d like to attend
I would like to see the Pirates still add a 3B to the mix. Somebody I have looked into is Graham Pauley from the Marlins. Was once 5th highest rated prospect in SD system. Traded at deadline in 2024 for Tanner Scott. Not sure what his future is in MIA but maybe a change of scenery guy if he’s not going to get a serious look with the Marlins.
Have also liked Ronny Mauricio from the Mets. He seems to be blocked in Queens now with Lindor, Bichette, Semien, and Polanco.
Ya i like the idea of a backup/competition for triolo
Maybe Yorke for one of those guys
Woohoo go Pirates! The offense (on paper anyways) is looking a little more respectable.
With the stellar pitching staff, they may give the Cubs and Brewers a run for their money this season.
Ozuna will def help this lineup. Legit cleanup hitter. Probably spells the end of Cutch’s second tour in PIT.
There shouldn’t be a comma before “too.”
@MLBTR needs to hire editors I get your Schtick, but the comma before too is not incorrect. It’s not required and MLA would tell you not to add it, but it’s still correct. Just old school.
I think that nowadays writers are told to get stories out as quickly as possible and with all due respect making mistakes on MLBTR are not going to cost lives.
Everyone knows what they mean almost all of the time.
These guys are not writing doctoral theses.
Complainers just have to complain.
They rarely produce anything of impact.
Best of luck, Big Bear!
Not a bad move at all.
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