Castro Internet Archive
First Published: L'Unita, Rome, No. 32, 1 February 1961, pages 1-2.
Source:Castro Speech Database
Markup: Brian Baggins
Online Version: Castro Internet Archive (marxists.org) 2000
Havana, January — "Do you really want to write that this issocialist revolution? All right, write it. We are not afraid of words.Do not say, however — as Americans do — that there is communism here,because communism cannot be found even in Russia, after forty years fromthe overtaking of power... National middle classes? Forget about them, myboy, forget it entirely that national middle classes can still play arevolutionary role in Latin America... Yes, I studied Marx's and Lenin'sworks even before launching the attack against Cuartel Moncada, in 1953...A society is divided into classes, there is a class struggle: these areunquestionable truths... No, the Americans will not attack us. Imperialismis dying, anyway. It can choose between suicide and natural death. If itattacks, it means suicide, a fast and certain death. If it does notattack, it can hope to last a little longer..."
I am reporting these sentences, which are the most significantamong those which were told me last night by Fidel Castro, during aconversation that started at 0200 hours and ended at 0530 this morning.The Cuban Prime Minister had promised me an interview on last 3 Januaryduring a reception at the presidential palace. However — overburdened ashe is by a huge amount of political, military, and diplomatic work, andintolerant as he is of any formality and detailed planning beforemeetings, — he was unable, or decided not to keep his promise. Lastnight's conversation — which was very extensive, open-minded, and cordial — happened by change. This is how it happened.
At 0100 hours I was at the El Caribe night club, located on thesecond floor of the Havana Libre Hotel. Fifteen jazzmen, six singers, andten ballerinas were doing everything they could to entertain eightcustomers, including me. The waiters were yawning all the time. Boredomwas supreme. At 0130, the night club glass door was pushed wide open.Five athletic silhouettes in uniform, with pistols on their waists andsmall submachine guns on their shoulders, came in in complete silence (thecarpet eliminated any noise made by the boots), sat around a table andordered Coca Cola.
In spite of the darkness (all Cuban night clubs and bars arealmost completely dark), I recognized the heavy and slightly roundshoulders, the tall size, and the black, Renaissance-like beard of FidelCastro. I moved closer to him, and impolitely lit up a match under hiseyes. It was me.
Comandante — I said — you promised me an interview. Let usset a date right away.
No chico (chico means boy, and Fidel calls everybody chico,at least all those who are his friends). No, please, I hate dates. Sitdown, let me/rest a while, tomorrow we'll talk about it...
The bodyguards (a fat one in shirt-sleeves, a slim one with animmobile Velasquez-type Spanish face, and a Negro with a sweet melancholylock) were smoking in silence. Another soldier watched the door. Waitersand ballerinas pretended not to see anybody. The boring performance wenton. From time to time, Fidel Castro applauded politely. At 0200 o'clockhe got up. Then a singer shouted "Viva el caballo!" El caballo, thehorse, is Fidel Castro. This is the people's affectionate way of referringto him because of his indomitable strength. The Premier went out, thankinghim with a smile. I followed him.
Comandante, what about the interview?
Chico, there are scores of journalists who are waiting...
Comandante, I have been waiting for a month.
Ah? Yes, you are the Italian Communist, the Togliattiano...[from the name, Togliatti, of the Italian Communist Party Chief].
Fidel Castro smiles, opens his arms and raises his shoulders (ausual, slightly timid gesture of his).
All right, let's go.
We go to the Hall of Ambassadors, and sit down at a conferencetable under a huge chandelier of unbelievable bad taste. In a second, ten,thirty, forty people are around us: mulatto girl singers with bit eyespained in black and blue, waiters, casino croupiers, Latin Americandelegates...
Q. Comandante, what is the character of the Cuban revolution?
Fidel Castro laughs, lights a cigar, handles it with his smalltanned hands and dark fingernails.
A. You newspapermen are crazy for definitions and neat schemes...You're impossibly dogmatic. We are not dogmatic... At any rate, you wishto write that this is a socialist revolution, right? And write it, then...Yes, not only did we destroy a tyrannical system. We also destroyed thephiloimperialistic bourgeois state apparatus, the bureaucracy, the police,and a mercenary army. We abolished privileges, annihilated the greatlandowners, threw out foreign monopolies for good, nationalized almostevery industry, and collectivized the land. We are fighting now toliquidate once and for all the exploitation of man over man, and to build acompletely new society, with a new class contents. The Americans (Cubanssay just that, los americanos, to mean the United States) the Americans andthe priests say that this is communism. We know very well that it is not.At any rates, the word does not frighten us. They can say whatever theywish. There is a song, which is popular among our peasants, that goes moreor less like this: "Bird of ill omen — of treason and cowardice — thatare throwing at my joy — the word: communism! — I know nothing aboutthese 'isms' — Yet, if such a great welfare conquest — which can be beenby my own eyes — is communism, then — you can even call me a communist!
Q. Comandante, what do you think about the Popular SocialistParty, which is the party of Castro communists?
A. It is the only Cuban party which has consistently called for aradical change of social structures and relations. It is true that at thebeginning the communists distrusted me and us rebels. Their distrust wasjustified, their position was absolutely correct, both ideologically andpolitically. They were right in being distrustful because we of the Sierrawho were conducting the guerilla were still full of petit bourgeoisprejudices and defects, in spite of our Marxist readings. Our ideas werenot clear, although we wished to destroy tyranny and privileges with allout strength. Then, we met with each other, we understood one another, andstarted to work together. The communists have shed much blood and heroismfor the Cuban cause. At present, we continue to work together in a loyaland brotherly way.
Q. According to your opinion, following the latest developmentsof the Cuban revolution, has the historical outlook for Latin Americachanged? In other words, do you believe that the Cuban example can andmust be followed by other peoples on the Continent?
A. Yes, I think so.
Q. Do you mean to say, then, that other peoples should take uparms in order to overturn governments that are either dictatorial or soldout to the United States?
A. yes, we hope that others will follow our example. Inconclusion, we are all one people, we speak the same language, from the RioGrande to Petagonia, and have shared a common history, which can be summedup in a few words: exploited as colonies first by Spain, and then by theUnited States. All that is going to stop. There are countries — hold it,don't write this down, because I don't want to create internationalincidents — there are countries where revolutionary spirit, patriotismand hatred against imperialism are much stronger, livelier, and moreprofound than they were in Cuba three years ago. A revolution will breakout simultaneously in many Latin American countries, which will destroyprejudices, regionalism and provincialism. Latin America will then becomejust one, great, free, civil and independent nation. The Chinese were moredivided among themselves than we are, with different dialects and evenlanguages, and a multiplicity of nationalities. And yet, the Chineserevolution is one and indivisible.
Q. Much is being said on "national ways" and on alliances... Doyou believe that national-minded middle classes can still play a positiverole in Latin American revolutions?
A. I don't believe so, I never did. It is true that there aregroups of industrial bourgeoisie which are against, at times very muchagainst, imperialism, because of competition. But these same groups hatethe workers even more, for class reasons. Between U.S. monopolies andnational bourgeoisies there can be temporary conflicts and skirmishes, nota true all-out struggle. There is no historical incompatibility betweenthem. Our national bourgeoisie here at home is complacent and coward, andalways ready to concede to imperialism which is conclusion keeps it aliveand gives it help and arms to be used against social revolutions. Nationalbourgeoisie sleep, just as the Cuban bourgeoisie used to sleep. Privilegedclasses can no longer participate in true revolutions, least of all leadthem, in our century. Believe me, this is the truth.
Q. What are, then, in your opinion, the forces which have thehistorical task of organizing revolutions in Latin America?
A. The industrial and agricultural proletariat, the peasants, thesmall bourgeoisie, above all the intellectuals. I do not wish to encouragefactionalism. Nor do I deny that some layers of the national bourgeoisiecan support, in part and temporarily, certain revolutionary events. Igrant that some children of the bourgeoisie can enter the ranks of thepeople, participate in revolutions, and even direct them, as consciousindividuals, armed with a revolutionary theory (after all, even I am theson of great landowners!). Yet, I am reasoning from a class viewpoint.There is no longer anything good we can expect from the nationalbourgeoisie as a class. The same goes for national armies. Revolutionaryand patriotic officers can be found, but professional and caste armies arelike a cancer that must be uprooted from Latin America. If the armies arenot destroyed, there can be no true governments of the people, and socialreforms cannot be enacted. At the first smell of an even modest reform,the army intervenes and paralyzes everything. And when a corruptgovernment is on its way out, and a revolution is in sight, there comes thearmy again with a state coup and with a new government which is worse thatthe one that preceded it. These are the lessons of our history.
Q. In some countries, however, the national bourgeoisie is verystrong. It will not be easy to overturn it, together with the landowners,the generals, the oligarchic cliques, and the overlords...
A. Also in Cuba, the feudal-bourgeois group way very strong. Itcontrolled everything: the army, the press, the judiciary, the radio,schools, universities, the police, everything. Yet, we won. Armed andwell organized workers, peasants and students: this is the onlyrevolutionary force of this Continent.
Q. Comandante, what is the socialist camp's contribution to theCuban revolution:
A. My boy, what would have happened to us had Khruschev not sentus oil and brought our sugar? And had the Czechs not sent weapons todefend ourselves, and machines, spare parts and technicians? We have heretwo or three hundred Soviet technicians, great workers, correct, kind, truebrothers. The USSR is gambling on her peace, in spite of here twentymillion dead of the last war, is compromising her peace and prestige inorder to defend us, a small island. And it is doing this with not stringsattached, without asking for anything. And you ask me what I think of thesocialist camp? They are our friends.
Fidel's voice is hoarse, but the indomitable caballo resists,jokes, laughs, speaks rapidly, and concisely, by using vernacularexpressions which makes his eloquence more down to earth, and so differentfrom the solemn and slow eloquence of his official speeches.
Now, is it the others' turn in asking questions. They ask himpersonal questions. One says with a certain pomposity: "What do you foolwhen you awake in the morning and think that you are the great leader ofall Latin America?"
Fidel blushes and shrugs his shoulders.
"I am a man like any other. Here, for instance, this chico righthere (he points his finger at me) wakes up worrying that he will not beable to write a good article. True? So I wake up with the feat that I maynot be able to do well my work as a revolutionary... And with the addedpain of having to execute people... What do you think, that we like tokill? We are compelled to do it. The terrorists place bombs, and shootout militiamen. Do you remember when they blew up the French ship? Therewere one hundred dead. [On March 4, 1960, the Coubre, a French freighter loaded with Belgian arms and ammunition, was blown up in Havana Harbor] Yet, it is terrible to have to execute people(suddenly, Fidel's eyes are filled with tears, and his voice is upset).Believe me, it's a death struggle. It is either us or them. We have todefend the revolution and make it go forward. We cannot show any pity. Andyet it's terrible..."
It is 0530 hours. Fidel gets up, shakes hand with everybody,patiently and modestly signs postcards, pictures and books, and finds againhis beautiful smile. "Adios, companeros, muchas gracias!"
Then, turning to me, he says: "Got your interview, Italiano? Nowyou won't be on the look-out for me..."
On the contrary, Comandante, I still have many questions to askof you.
All right, all right, we'll see...
Then he leaves, walking slowly and in a slightly bent way, withhis armed escort, and in a big black car disappears in the Havana streets,silent and deserted, and swept by a cold wind from the north.