I've sent this email toentries@pebblebeachconcours.net and removed the persons name I addressed it to as it's probably not their faulthttp://www.pebblebeachconcours.net/pages/5196/index.htm said:Class V-1: Prewar Open Wheel Racing
1st: 1908 Benz Prince Heinrich Two Seat Race Car, Ann Bothwell, Woodland Hills, California
2nd: 1922 Ballot 2 Litre Race Car, George F. Wingard, Eugene, Oregon
3rd: 1921 Alfa Romeo G1 Race Car, Tony Shooshani, Beverly Hills, California
One wonders what other awards have been handed out that should never have been ... sigh ...my email said:I do not believe you are the right person to contact but I do not know who is and I have to make a comment on the 1921 Alfa Romeo G1 that has been incorrectly turned into something no G1 ever was, a race car. This car is the last surviving of 52 G1's that all were sold to Australia and the first car manufactured when Alfa changed their name to Alfa Romeo, thus the first Alfa Romeo.
No G1's were ever raced, they were tourers or limousines. Below I will quote from two knowledgeable books and feel strongly that historically incorrect modifications like this should not be part of such a supposed quality car show as Pebble Beach, in fact in my opinion it should have been denied entry until returned to its correct form. In fact it was given an award (3rd place in Class V-1: Prewar Open Wheel Racing) which is a terrible injustice to the Alfa Romeo community and the 4th place entrant.
Referring to the book: Alfa Romeo a history by Peter Hull and Roy Slater; Chapter Three
"Surprisingly, perhaps, the first car designed from the start as an Alfa Romeo was not a sporting model, but a huge luxury side valve six cylinder limousine known as the G1. It was not destined to achieve any lasting fame, nor were there any notably advanced features in its distinctly Edwardian design"
It then goes on to discuss racing of he 40/60 and 20/30, never the G1.
Referring to the book: Guide to the identification of Alfa Romeo cars by Maurizio Tabucchi; 1920
"G1
Chassis for: Tourer, Limousine, Roadster.
Initial conceived by Giuseppe Merosi with a 6597cc engine, which was slightly reduced in cubic capacity and its power increased using different camshaft timing. The suggestion to produce this car, but more than that the evolution of the engine to use overhead valves for use in competition, came from Enzo Ferrari, who had for some time been an Alfa Romeo works driver and saw considerable racing development possibilities in this project. It was Alfa's intention that the G1 should be sold alongside the 20-30 E.S. Sport, but its high class, cubic capacity and consequent notable fuel consumption which was unsustainable so soon after the war, were obstacles that meant production was limited to 52 cars, all of them sold in Australia."
Therefore one can accurately say no G1 ever raced, that was the role of the 40/60 and 20/30 and ALL G1's were exported to Australia and did not compete officially. Also one could say that the previous restoration to a Spider form was already pushing the sportiness that probably (but I have no proof of this) never existed on any G1.
What I am hoping this email can do is:
1. Rectify the award situation,
2. Encourage the owner to return this car to its previous correct for a G1 form, and suggest he purchase an ALFA 20/30 if he wants to run a race car. I have been informed by the person who did this modification that this is a simple bolt on process.
I feel for Pebble Beach to maintain it's position as one of the top Concours D' Elegance shows this mistake has to be rectified. Please note it took me no longer than 15 minutes of research to prove that the only surviving G1 Alfa Romeo has been treated with an incredible lack of historical correctness. This is a extremely important car for Alfisti all over the world but particularly for Australia, but yes the owner can do what they like with their car, but should never be awarded for it.
I do realise that the judges cannot be experts on every make and model presented but I would have expected it to be easy to find a knowledgable person on the very first Alfa Romeo. A simple Google search for Alfa G1 confirms it's correct place in automotive history.
Regards
I've sent this email toentries@pebblebeachconcours.net and removed the persons name I addressed it to as it's probably not their faulthttp://www.pebblebeachconcours.net/pages/5196/index.htm said:Class V-1: Prewar Open Wheel Racing
1st: 1908 Benz Prince Heinrich Two Seat Race Car, Ann Bothwell, Woodland Hills, California
2nd: 1922 Ballot 2 Litre Race Car, George F. Wingard, Eugene, Oregon
3rd: 1921 Alfa Romeo G1 Race Car, Tony Shooshani, Beverly Hills, California
One wonders what other awards have been handed out that should never have been ... sigh ...my email said:I do not believe you are the right person to contact but I do not know who is and I have to make a comment on the 1921 Alfa Romeo G1 that has been incorrectly turned into something no G1 ever was, a race car. This car is the last surviving of 52 G1's that all were sold to Australia and the first car manufactured when Alfa changed their name to Alfa Romeo, thus the first Alfa Romeo.
No G1's were ever raced, they were tourers or limousines. Below I will quote from two knowledgeable books and feel strongly that historically incorrect modifications like this should not be part of such a supposed quality car show as Pebble Beach, in fact in my opinion it should have been denied entry until returned to its correct form. In fact it was given an award (3rd place in Class V-1: Prewar Open Wheel Racing) which is a terrible injustice to the Alfa Romeo community and the 4th place entrant.
Referring to the book: Alfa Romeo a history by Peter Hull and Roy Slater; Chapter Three
"Surprisingly, perhaps, the first car designed from the start as an Alfa Romeo was not a sporting model, but a huge luxury side valve six cylinder limousine known as the G1. It was not destined to achieve any lasting fame, nor were there any notably advanced features in its distinctly Edwardian design"
It then goes on to discuss racing of he 40/60 and 20/30, never the G1.
Referring to the book: Guide to the identification of Alfa Romeo cars by Maurizio Tabucchi; 1920
"G1
Chassis for: Tourer, Limousine, Roadster.
Initial conceived by Giuseppe Merosi with a 6597cc engine, which was slightly reduced in cubic capacity and its power increased using different camshaft timing. The suggestion to produce this car, but more than that the evolution of the engine to use overhead valves for use in competition, came from Enzo Ferrari, who had for some time been an Alfa Romeo works driver and saw considerable racing development possibilities in this project. It was Alfa's intention that the G1 should be sold alongside the 20-30 E.S. Sport, but its high class, cubic capacity and consequent notable fuel consumption which was unsustainable so soon after the war, were obstacles that meant production was limited to 52 cars, all of them sold in Australia."
Therefore one can accurately say no G1 ever raced, that was the role of the 40/60 and 20/30 and ALL G1's were exported to Australia and did not compete officially. Also one could say that the previous restoration to a Spider form was already pushing the sportiness that probably (but I have no proof of this) never existed on any G1.
What I am hoping this email can do is:
1. Rectify the award situation,
2. Encourage the owner to return this car to its previous correct for a G1 form, and suggest he purchase an ALFA 20/30 if he wants to run a race car. I have been informed by the person who did this modification that this is a simple bolt on process.
I feel for Pebble Beach to maintain it's position as one of the top Concours D' Elegance shows this mistake has to be rectified. Please note it took me no longer than 15 minutes of research to prove that the only surviving G1 Alfa Romeo has been treated with an incredible lack of historical correctness. This is a extremely important car for Alfisti all over the world but particularly for Australia, but yes the owner can do what they like with their car, but should never be awarded for it.
I do realise that the judges cannot be experts on every make and model presented but I would have expected it to be easy to find a knowledgable person on the very first Alfa Romeo. A simple Google search for Alfa G1 confirms it's correct place in automotive history.
Regards
Dunno about last surviving? correct me if I am wrong but this car is different to the one we have here in Australia? And I don't think I would say it is that far from original. Other than not having the big headlights and fenders the major structure of the car is essentially the same as the one I saw at Phillip Island a few years back.I've always wanted to visit the Pebble Beach Concours but now they have given an award to an incorrect replication of a car I know a lot about and thus like other shows they don't have the knowledge necessary to get everything right which is vital (they guess or let historically incorrect modifications through) if you are going to position yourself as the world's best concours event.
I've sent this email toentries@pebblebeachconcours.net and removed the persons name I addressed it to as it's probably not their fault.
One wonders what other awards have been handed out that should never have been ... sigh ....
Pete
Well, I quoted it in my post and provided the link. Since you missed it, wikepedia says this "The G1 was used also in motorsport and it won its own class at Coppa de Garda."I don't know what Wikipedia says re the G1
Actually wikepedia is about equal to the Encyclopedia Britannica in accuracy.Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica - CNET News . I see no reason to suspect they are wrong here.but then again Wiki is hardly a world expert on Alfas or anything for that matter, given that postings on Wiki are those of anyone.
Maybe, or maybe that's just the way he want's his car to look. It is his car, and some people feel that "Sporting blood has run through the veins of every Alfa Romeo produced over the last **100** !! years"The other and historically relevant point which Pete makes, and I agree with, is that sadly the current owner of this car has bastardised its historical appearance and for what to win at Pebble Beach. How shallow.
He could be stupid, but I doubt it. I think it's more likely he just likes it that way.Personally, my view is that the current owner either has no understanding/appreciation of what the G1 was-represented or is plain stupid.
Eventually someone else will own it. If that owner, and perhaps it will be you wishes to change it, more power too them. Until then, this guy can do what he wants with his car, and the folks that run Pebble Beach can let any car in they want. I find this car interesting, so I am glad it was in the show. If it wasn't I wouldn't have seen it.Hopefully he either gets bored with it and sells it or alternatively restores it back to its proper appearance.
But to me the first car could be a 20-30, certainly looks identical to Ugo's car other than wire wheels (?).http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/784624-post2.html said:4) 1921 Alfa Romeo Team Giuseppe Merosi g1, Enzo Ferrari 20-30, Antonio Ascari GP, Ugo Sivocci 20-30, Giuseppe Campari 40-60
Still a dam shame that she has been converted to a race car, but no permanent harm donemy email said:My research has discovered that I disagree with Luigi Fusi in his book "Alfa Romeo - All Cars since 1910" where he states: "two G1 cars took part in the Garda Cup on December 7th 1920, both ranking first <<ex-aequo>> with other cars in the same category." (referencehttp://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/4768610-post26.html as I do not own a copy of this book) Therefore I have some reference books saying the G1 never raced and Fusi's book saying it did, but it is likely that Fusi is more correct than the others (?).
Therefore I remove my questioning of why the G1 was awarded a third place in class V1. Yes chassis 6018 never, ever raced but some did and thus the current owner is historically correct for the model, and of course your judges are right.
I appologise for any time wasted and hope any of the information I've discovered and documented here is of use to the current owner:http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car-events/239874-disillusioned-pebble-beach-concours.html
I will share the Fugi reference with Craig, the restorer.
Interestingly also I've been informed that many parts of another G1 have been found and maybe soon we may have another restored G1. I wonder if these parts came from the wreck that Ross Flewell-Smith used to restore 6018?