Talk:Metro Atlanta
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This page is a daughter article of theAtlanta, Georgia pageWhisperToMe 08:27, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)
These numbers seem too high, where did they come from: 1,090,000 (Fulton), 781,000 (Cobb)...
This appears to be vandalism:
Revision as of 19:17, 27 August 2006 (edit)24.98.187.0 (Talk)
68.219.137.23607:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The article starts offAccording to the 2000 census, the 20-county Atlanta, Georgia metropolitan area. However the list of counties, and the map, only show 19 counties. Looking at the US Census Bureau's list of metro areas[1], it seems the difference isPickens County, which they include in the metro area but we don't.
To add further to the confusion, the article onMARTA effectively lists metro Atlanta's counties as beingFulton,DeKalb,Cobb,Gwinnett andClayton and no others.
So which is correct. Or do we need to rewrite this article to say there are multiple conflicting definitions in play. --Chris j wood 21:56, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
When in doubt, go with the census definition.Kaldari 19:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Anonymous contributor 164.111.195.234 has re-instated the map I dropped above. It is not clear if this was a statement that 164.111.195.234 believes the 28-county definition to be wrong, or whether they simply hadn't noticed that the map no longer corresponds to the definition of the Atlanta metropolitan area adopted above. Either way, either the text or the map must change to keep consistency, and as 164.111.195.234 is anonymous and made no attempt to explain the change, it is easiest to stick with the text and drop the map again. --Chris j wood 12:04, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Atlantas'metro area is the size of Holland or Vancouver Island.That's a little extreme for a metro area don't you think.It must be the largest metro area in the WORLD and makes Atlanta seem more populus than it actually is.
Actually, Atlanta's metro is not the largest in the world. It's around 8500-10000 sq miles with much of it being rural. Also, if you read the Georgia article you would know that Georgia has the smallest average county size in the country. So people see 28 counties and automatically think metro Atlanta is gigantic (it is large) when it's actually smaller than Houston and a few others in the country.
The map needs updating I think. For example Hall county is listed as being part of the MSA, but it isn't highlighted.130.207.62.67 (talk)17:08, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find this one piece of info (under transportation) to be incorrect: "Currently, I-75 is 15 lanes wide at the Windy Hill Interchange (8 northbound, 7 southbound), and as such, is the widest freeway in the world."
If you go tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Torontoyou'll see that: "Bisecting the city from west to east across its inner suburbs, Highway 401 (or simply, "the 401") acts as a bypass of the downtown core, and is both the busiest and widest highway in the world"—The precedingunsigned comment was added by70.124.194.75 (talk •contribs) 03:02, 31 August 2006.
why is gwinnett under edge cities?—The precedingunsigned comment was added by67.33.142.156 (talk •contribs) 03:07, January 30, 2007 (UTC).
I reverted anonymous removal of cities from the edge cities list, but is there any way of determining with certainty which suburbs meet the criteria for being an "edge city"?Qqqqqq17:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Leave edge city discussion tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edge_cities#Atlanta and mirror that list. No need to duplicate discussion here.Netdragon (talk)23:45, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I once again removed questionable edge cities on a list that was started without any discussion. Please discuss in discussion forhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edge_cities#Atlanta - If it's not on there, it shouldn't be in this article. Town Center was also left off, which was inconsistent. It seems to me some people are plugging their favorite areas. This is not an article for advocacy. It should be facts-based.Netdragon (talk)19:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hey guys, I think perhaps we've run into a situation that is being muddied from being over-analytical in the wrong ways. There are multiple definitions of edge cities, but the #1 problem is people are focusing on the political boundaries of cities too much and I don't think that is the major point of the definitions. This is a part of the country where much is built in unincorporated areas, different cities annex different parts of highly successful commercial areas and at points in the past the older traditional cities annexed their old suburbs (ie. Buckhead). I'm going to copy the lead paragraph from the edge city page:
" Anedge city is anAmerican term for a concentration of business, shopping, and entertainment outside a traditionaldowntown (orcentral business district) in what had previously been a residential orrural area. The term was popularized in the 1991 bookEdge City: Life on the New Frontier byJoel Garreau, who established its current meaning while working as areporter for theWashington Post. Garreau argues that the edge city has become the standard form of urban growth worldwide, representing a 20th-century urban form unlike that of the 19th-century centraldowntown. Other terms for the areas includesuburban activity centers,megacenters, andsuburban business districts.[1] "
The point being here is many of the things removed are indeed edge cities, but are being removed for analytical reasons on the existence of a city or the name being shared with other entities. The definition doesn't mention anything about where it is in relation to any city's borders. It does mention being outside of the traditional downtown and containing some of the traditional uses of a downtown in a modern form and I think that is the major point.
Buckhead easily fits into this definition. Yes, it is inside the city of Atlanta. However, it is definitely "a concentration of business, shopping, and entertainment outside a traditional downtown."[1] It fits perfectly and in many ways it is Atlanta's first edge city.
The other operational definition the author details listed on the edge city pagea:
"In 1991, Garreau established five rules for a place to be considered an edge city:
Buckhead fits this very well, but people are just focusing on it being inside the city of Atlanta too much.
Midtown arguably fits this as well too, but the debate really needs to be centered on whether it is a continuation of a traditional downtown-like growth. Atlantic Station would fit this definition.
Peachtree Corners would fit this definition very well.
Alpharetta (commonly just loosely referred to as North Fulton) fits this definition. The issue here is when someone says North Fulton [county] it can convey two meanings: 1) the entire political extents of the county line in the northern part of Fulton County or 2) the busy business corridor along GA400. This corridor is mostly centered on Alpharetta city, but not entirely. However the definition fits. It is not a traditional downtown. it has way more office space than needed, way more retail than needed, more jobs than residents, it is a perceived place, and was not a traditional city 30 years ago.
Gwinnett suffers from the same problem and confusion. It is a really large county, but there is corridor growth along I-85 from Gwinnett Place Mall up to the Gwinnett Center near sugarloaf Pkwy. The issue is the original naming features have only "Gwinnett" in common. Cumberland had Cumberland Mall to help create a name. Gwinnett only had Gwinnett Place Mall to help create a naming identity. So in reference as an edge city, people locally know that to be the place. It might need to consider branding a new name, but it doesn't change what is physically there. Which is way more than 5msf of leasable office space, more than 600,000sf of retail, has more jobs than residents, is perceived as a place, and was nothing like a city in the timeline granted by the author. Just to demonstrate this naming practice. Atlanta has the Livable Centers Initiative grant program. This area, which includes the Gwinnett Center and Gwinnett Place Mall, is merely only called the Gwinnett LCI. Now there are other LCIs within Gwinnett County, but they referred to that area as "Gwinnett." County leaders in the past have tried to call it "downtown Gwinnett." (for those from outside the area, it does not have any of the characteristics of a traditional downtown, beyond that of the edge city definition). The point being, is even though it shares a name with the County it is in and admittedly this causes confusion for outsiders and perhaps those in different parts across town, that area closely bounded by the Gwinnett LCI definitely meets all of the above qualities of an edge city. Please see Map in reference:[3]
Perimeter (or Perimeter center) fits the definition well and it is Atlanta's largest edge city. We shouldn't dwell on the fact that it is bisected by the city boundaries of Dunwoody and Sandy Springs and that Dunwoody and Sandy Springs has quieter areas further away. Perimeter Center is a sense of place beyond these city boundaries and in that area the definition fits.
Kennesaw is a place I'm unsure about, but it is worth a look. Again we can't dwell on the city limits of Kennesaw too much, as an edge city we are really referencing the commercial/office/retail center building up around I-75 and I-575 near Town Center. Locally, people refer to it as Kennesaw, whether or not it is is in the actual city of Kennesaw. I just don't political boundaries to dictate too much when there is clearly a singular commercial center developing that fits all these definitions. Yes, some are far bigger and some are far smaller. What I specifically will be looking at later is does it surpass 5msf? I think this will be close, but I think it is an issue that is hard to research/source. Agencies, like Colliers, just calls it the Northwest submarket, but that includes Cumberland. Kennesaw and Cumberland are clearly perceived to be different places locally, but they are included in the same submarket for research on office space.
I'm ok leaving it as it has many 'border-line' qualities, but the most questionable one that has been listed, past or present, is actually the airport area. The problem is there is not much office space there. There is not much retail space either, at least outside of the airport. The airport is a destination for travelers, but not day-to-day locals. All of the South Atlanta sub market according to Colliers is only 13msf. The problem is that goes far, far beyond the airport area and most of that is away from the airport. There is the new Porsche complex, Chik-fil-a is nearby, and there is some office space. I'm just not sure if it reaches 5msf around the airport itself or 600,000sf of retail space for that matter.[4] It also lacks areas of entertainment space, included in the definition. This very well can change over time, but if we are going to be overly-analytical one of the places we keep leaving on the list is the place that struggles to meet the definition the most.
One thing is definitely sure. This page is being edited to constrain the definition of an edge city to only focus on 2 or 3 places when Atlanta has many significant non-traditional areas of retail/office space popping up that fit this definition. Atlanta is a spread out suburban city and jobs do travel out to where people live.Cwkimbro (talk)21:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
References
I propose changing the name of this page from 'Atlanta Metropolitan Area' to 'Metro Atlanta' for two reasons: 1) It more accurately reflects its name, and 2) Other metro areas, such as Chicago, are titled "Chicagoland", and renaming this page would move Atlanta into that category.auburnirishman 23:59 20 Jun 2007
I think that we should at least mention the differences in race distribution and wealth throughout the area. Since Metro Atlanta stands as the definitive example of the New South, it is only right that this article should talk about the differences seen when one compares income and educational qualities of areas such as the downtown district and Marietta. Sociology isn't my forte, but I would be willing to work with others to bring this about.—The precedingunsigned comment was added byMrathel (talk •contribs) 4 July 2007, 00:36 (UTC).
I am sorry if I failed to define my terms, or, even worse, implied that research needed to be done-- but what I was attempting to get at was that the article could benefit from a section that focuses on the racial, educational, and monetary distributions throughout the Metro Atlanta area. This of course could be done with a chart or a map; I don't really know to be honest...I just thought it would give the article a bit of depth.Mrathel05:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"The first commuter rail line would run south of the city, eventually extended to Lovejoy and possibly Hampton near Atlanta Motor Speedway. This project took two decades under Democrats, and has now been threatened by some Republicans in the Georgia General Assembly as being "wasteful", despite being successful in every other U.S. city that has it."
Probably the most obvious example of pro-public transportation bias in this article. No measure of success is cited. Arguments against a commuter rail-line connecting Lovejoy and Hampton are ignored. Arguments against expansion of MARTA into Clayton, Cobb, and Gwinnett Counties are similarly ignored, and instead opposition to MARTA is passively associated with "White Flight." No citations for that either.
Should stick to the facts and figures of the transportation system. If this article has to delve into the politics of public transportation, both sides should be presented as unbiased as possible.
Speaking of arguments against public transportation...how come there are no sections for entertainment or sports?—Precedingunsigned comment added by68.217.89.179 (talk)07:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, (has anyone else considered this?) that despite the reasons for the powers that be who decided Atlanta instead of Miami is the 'major population center' of the southeast, I find that: including 28 counties in your "CSA/Metro area" just to be distinguished by the designation of "largest population in the southeast" is a bit excessive. 28 counties? that pretty much encompasses 1/3 of the entire state! If Miami were to include 28 counties nearby, it would be one of the largest in the world! I still think Miami (and its 3 counties) are a more realistic reasonable designation for largest Metro Statistical population center.—Precedingunsigned comment added byRahiim03 (talk •contribs)00:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Atlanta city page keeps getting demographic info for the entire metro. A demographic section needs to be created on this page so the Atlanta demographic section can be cleaned up.—Precedingunsigned comment added byMmann3333 (talk •contribs)05:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"The area is the world's largest toll-free calling zone spanning 7,162 square miles (18,549 km2), has three active telephone area codes, and local calling extending into portions of two others."
What is this supposed to mean? Area code 406 covers all of Montana (147,042 square miles), to name just one of many that cover a larger area than metro Atlanta. And there's no way it's the biggest toll-free area requiring 10-digit dialing—several in Canada are clearly bigger, and possibly some in the US. Could it refer to population? I don't know if those numbers are available anywhere, but that seems pretty dubious too.Jwsinclair (talk)18:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
According tohttp://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/us_wall/Dec_2009/cbsa_us_1209.pdf, the list of counties is a bit off. Putnam County is not in either the MSA or the CSA, and Troup County (in the CSA as part of the LaGrange MSA) is missing. There's also no way to differentiate between counties in the MSA and CSA.— Precedingunsigned comment added byMattquest50 (talk •contribs)20:41, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also - Gwinnet, Fulton, and Cobb counties (the three most populous ones) are not included in the list for some reason. Currently the list of counties in the Metro Area only sums to 3M instead of the 6M at the bottom - doesn't make sense.104.163.190.207 (talk)20:16, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What is the value of citing Japanese population in Metro Atlanta as at 1990 without a contextual reference to present day population? Without reference to growth, this citation of a two decade-old statistics has no significance. Suggests to delete it, or relate the 1990 number to most recent population figure to provide meaning.Merlin1935 (talk)06:11, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this article saying something implying Washington DC is in the southeast?? The metropolitan area is in Maryland.Georgia guy (talk)01:16, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are 3 Interstate highways in Atlanta, and each one connects Atlanta to 2 other cities. The cities are:
These answers are the same answers all highway signs in Metro-Atlanta say are the cities that the highways go towards. One user has revertedtwice an edit of mine to make the section of this article that mentions this be consistent with the above info. Any thoughts??Georgia guy (talk)21:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is per the US Office of Management and Budget's February 2013 definition:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/bulletins/2013/b-13-01.pdf
Also, the name is no longer the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta MSA, but the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell MSA. I'd like to discuss this with contributors before making the change.
Aglassonion (talk)02:30, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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In the Education section, I think there should be a list of school districts (in accordance with the counties in the MSA)— Precedingunsigned comment added byAwesomegaming (talk •contribs)20:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone have a list of Municipalities of the Atlanta CSA2600:1700:6180:6290:F1C5:D498:AB50:50BC (talk)17:30, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
it's a city in Clayton County where I lived for a while 11k population according to the usps zip code 3027371.56.52.229 (talk)02:34, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The historical population table should be updated to include yearly estimates like it used to in years past. It doesn't seem to be editable.146.126.61.241 (talk)12:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The entire geography section reads like a personal opinion, and it’s missing citations.Mini Inanna (talk)19:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The section of the article that lists all the entities in the Atlanta GA-AL Combined Statistical Area needs editing. The table is inaccurate. The Toccoa, GA Micropolitan Statistical Area is no longer part of the CSA, and the Calhoun, GA Micropolitan Statistical Area is. See the July 2023 OMB Bulletin:https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/OMB-Bulletin-23-01.pdfTompdav214 (talk)07:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Georgia Swarm needs to be added, and their are likely other sports teams in Atlanta that arent listed.JackMCOBBGA (talk)14:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]