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Wow. I haven't been so eager for aDoctor Who episode as I was for last night's finale since the time-traveling soap-comedy relaunched. And... well, it was a mixture of pure silly fun and overwrought fan-service. Not quite as fun as Jesus-Doctor last year, and much, much too long. I found myself wishing the Sci Fi Channel would cut 20 minutes out of it after all. Only one question remains unanswered: what part of this episode was supposed to have us bawling like babies? Spoilers and snark ahead.
I'm sure people will put down last night'sDoctor Who finale by calling it fanfic, but it was actually much worse — and somewhat better — than that term implies. Russell T. Davies left no fannish button un-pressed, and made so many ridiculous logic-flops in his epic storyline, that he practically elevated fanwank to a new artform. I couldn't help comparing it to last year's finale, which was also ridiculous but didn't require a PhD in Who-ology to follow.
There were things that happened in last night's episode that I read about weeks, or months, ago. But I didn't stick them in morning spoilers, or downgraded them to "crazy rumors," because they just seemed too ridiculous. In particular, the Doctor's regeneration resulting in two David Tennants, one of whom is "human." And then the "human" David Tennant is sentenced to go off with Rose and be her boytoy. I honestly thought even Russell T. wouldn't give Rose such a ridiculously contrived happy ending.
Doctor Who is taking a break next year, with just a few one-off specials instead of a full season. Ostensibly, this is because David Tennant wants a year off, so he can star in Hamlet with Captain Picard. But it's pretty obvious, after this latest season, that the show needs a rest anyway. Even with Davies leaving and new showrunner Steven Moffat coming on, a year off would give the show a much-needed chance to rethink and recharge.
WhenWho came back in 2005, it was fresh and different than anything that had come before, and it was also accessible to new viewers. But recently, the show has been stuck in a tired formula, and it's giving in to the temptation to reference its own past more and more often.
Take last night's episode: I was startled by how continuity-heavy it was. It was like a clips episode. And I had vaguely wondered, in advance, if the show would mention that Sarah Jane Smith had met Davros, back in 1974. But the show didn't just mention that fact — it went on and on and on about it, in one of Davros' 100 boring speeches about destiny and souls and stuff. (Was it just me, or did Davros talk for about 20 minutes?) Likewise, the episode didn't have to bring in the fact thatTorchwood's Gwen Cooper is played by the same actor as the psychic maid in season one's "The Unquiet Dead," but why not? It's not as if there's a story that's being stopped dead in its tracks while we obsess over minor fannish details or anything.
By the way, I don't think it's an insult to call an episode like this "fanfic." I love fanfic, I've written fanfic before, and it fulfills an important purpose. Fanfic is how we get to explore some of the corners of a universe that the "official" canon will never get to. It's exactly where youshould have a scene where Davros meets Sarah Jane again and they talk about their first meeting 34 years ago. Fanfic also lets us have the kinds of happy endings we wish our favorite characters could have, but which we know deep down would have us hooting with derision if they actually happened: like getting a magic duplicate of the Doctor for Rose to spend the rest of her life with. (Until she gets sick of him following her around and talking like Catherine Tate. I give it a week.)
So why do I say this almost elevated fanfic to an artform? It's sort of the way Torchwood season one created the most brilliant crystalization of slashfic in television form, actually. It was every fanfic cliche, from the multiple Mary Sues, to the shipper happy ending, to the Doctor suffering emotionally and getting hurt and needing comfort, to the endless processing of minor plot details from old stories. It's like Roy Liechtenstein turning cheesy comics panels into huge paintings — by blowing fanfic up to a huge size and making it larger and more colorful than life, we see what's beautiful about it.
There was a lot to love about this episode, including Catherine Tate having the time of her life as a hybrid Time Lady/human, Daleks shouting in German, the lunacy of the Haagen Dasz device and the dwarf-star-necklace both turning out to be useless, K-9 showing up to save the day for a second, theAnnihilation Wave reality bomb being such a ludicrous plot device, the naked Doctor-clone, Captain Jack having some no-doubt-delightful fantasy involving the half-Time-Lord Donna and the two Doctors. There was a pretty great splashy finale buried in all that excess and fannish drool.
Really, this should have been Donna's episode, all about her own Bad Wolf-ization. It's too bad she got a bit lost in the crowd of old companions and random supporting characters. In particular, it's clear now that bringing Rose back was a mistake. She added almost nothing to the past few episodes, except for one or two cool big-gun moments and some random shipper fodder. She was incapable of actually saying a complete sentence without sounding as if she was about to swallow her own tongue, and she drained all the energy out of every scene she was in. The gritty, determined Rose I liked in "The Satan Pit" and a few other episodes was nowhere to be seen, and it was pretty clear that she was only there so she could get her pet faux-Doctor at the end.
I've mentioned that Donna has been growing on me this season, so I was bummed that she got screwed over so badly. I mean, she gets a half hour of being a semi-Time Lord, which seems to involve imitating David Tennant's mannerisms. And then she's dropped back right where she started, being the person who doesn't even notice that the Earth got moved across the universe and dropped into a hole in space/time. Not only that, but she's in a completely untenable situation: nobody can ever ask her what actually happened on her wedding day, or her head will explode. That's going to work out great.
And it's all the Doctor's fault, because he was too vain to regenerate normally. He wanted to keep his current cute hairstyle for a while, so he used the severed hand, and condemned Donna to being a ticking time bomb for life. Oh, and did it feel like a Bad Wolf rehash to anyone else? Plus the fact that we were told she would "die" and then it turned out to be a metaphorical death, just like in "Doomsday"?
That's what the Doctor should feel guilty about, not the fact that Sergey Brin sacrificed himself back in the Sontaran episode. Who cares about Sergey Brin? He was a schmuck, and he didn't actually sacrifice his life for the Doctor, he died to save the whole human race. The Doctor would have to be a collossal egotist to think Sergey Brin died for him alone. (Okay, I can believe that.) After a couple of years without pretty much any character development for the Doctor, it's a tad weird to reach for the guilty-Doctor schtick from Paul Cornell'sTimewyrm: Revelation. Especially since we just saw, two weeks ago, that everybody including Sergey Brin would have been toast without the Doctor. It's a no-win situation for Sergey.
And what was all that about the Doctor-dupe being emotionally scarred by destroying the Daleks? I literally didn't understand what the Alpha-Doc was going on about there. And the idea that the clone-Doc was in the same state that Christopher Eccleston's Doctor was in at the start of season one was also baffling — wasn't the ninth Doctor supposed to be scarred by years of the Time War, and the destruction of his own people? Not just ten minutes of pushing buttons to make some random Daleks explode? And why was Beta-Doc scarred and not Alpha-Doc? I know, I know, it's just an excuse to let Rose go off with the I-can't-believe-it's-not-the-Doctor. But it felt like the most random thing in a totally random episode.
Finally... I only have one question about Dalek Caan: Why has nobody uploaded a funny rap video to Youtube yet, featuring Grandmaster Melle Mel's rap from Chaka Khan's "I Feel For You," only about Dalek Caan? You know: "Dalek Caan, let me rock you, let me rock you Dalek Caan, let me rock you, that's all I wanna do..." Oh, I have one other question: prophecies? Prophecies?? Is this Battlestar Galactica all of a sudden? Seriously, it was just annoying when Davros kept talking about Dalek Caan the prophet, but then the Doctor started doing it too. I get it that Dalek Caan saw the time vortex (the same way Rose did, and the Master did?) so now he has special insights. But doesn't the Doctor Who universe feature free will? Isn't the future still mutable? Also, the idea that Donna's transformation was so important that echoes stretched backwards in time seemed a bit piffle. Time-travel and timey-whimey are not magic. (Well, maybe they are. But in theDoctor Who universe, they're not supposed to be.)
Okay, to sum up: You pretty much expect one of RTD's season finales to be ridiculous, include a huge deus ex machina, and make no sense. And this one lived up (or down) to your expectations. But it wasn't nearly as much fun as the dancing-Master/Doctor-Gollum episode last year. There was too much standing around and talking, for three or four hours. And too much fan-service. And as for crying... I cried like a drunk toddler duringWall-E, but I mostly laughed during this ep. It really could have been 20 minutes shorter, and woul dhave been much better for it. What did you think?
Love the tongue-in-cheek review, you're spot on though. It was a highly entertaining episode, but sadly some of it didn't make sense. It's like in 'Stolen Earth' when the Earth got moved, yet the rift stayed in its exact position in Torchwood, Cardiff. RTD makes some fun episodes, but doesn't adhere to enough logic to make it believable sometimes (as believability goes in a sci-fi about an alien travelling around in a blue box).
Overall though, thoroughly enjoyed this series' finale, more so than old-man-who last year and its horrible time reset. It's a shame we have to go so long without a proper series - but we have 'new' Torchwood (with Mickey and Martha) for that.
What do I think? I think I want back the doctor who was a quirky, steel-willed liberal genius, the one from the last few seasons of the original run, not this self-indulgent, unstoppable babbler. I liked the first few seasons, and the eps from this one have had their moments, but as the new run has continued it has gotten fuller and fuller of itself.
"It's like in 'Stolen Earth' when the Earth got moved, yet the rift stayed in its exact position in Torchwood, Cardiff. "
if it stayed in absolute position relative to the universe, it wouldn't stay over Cardiff anyway would it? Planetary and solar movement would have left it hanging in space long ago as we move on our orbit..
Personally, I thought it was a fantastic episode that kept me entertained throughout its entirety. But, then again, I'm not expecting the same level of "art" that you are. I really don't put that much thought into my entertainment because, well, it's entertainment. It's not something to be dissected and critiqued, but enjoyed or not.
It's interesting that you point out that there was a lot to love in the episode, yet chose to concentrate on the parts that you didn't like. Even worse, you missed the points of most of the things you criticize. For example,I get it that Dalek Caan saw the time vortex (the same way Rose did, and the Master did?) so now he has special insights. Um, no he didn't see it the way they did. They stood at the edge and looked in from relative safety while Caan went in and became part of it. Saying he experienced it in the same way is like saying you understand all about surfing because you saw it done on TV.
That's what the Doctor should feel guilty about
Why? He was just as startled by Donna's transformation as she was. He didn't do it to intentionally screw with her life. And, I dunno what episode you were watching, but it seemed fairly clear to me that in the end, he did feel guilt about it.
Who cares about Sergey Brin? He was a schmuck, and he didn't actually sacrifice his life for the Doctor, he died to save the whole human race.
How do you figure? The Doctor had already transmatted to the ship, was already prepared to make the sacrifice when Sergey swapped places with him to do the deed. Sergey could've stood where he was and the world would've been saved without any sacrifice on his part.
And what was all that about the Doctor-dupe being emotionally scarred by destroying the Daleks?
He wasn't emotionally scarred from destroying the Daleks, he was emotionally scarred and as a result destroyed the Daleks. You've got your causation backwards.
Seriously, sit down, turn off the Ausberger's and just watch TV. It's entertainment. It doesn't have to make perfect sense, if it did the TARDIS wouldn't be bigger on the inside than it is on the outside and the Doctor wouldn't be 900+ years old. I think this review was summed up perfectly in the first episode of "Big Bang Theory"...
"I know it's not real, people can't fly."
"No, no, no, let's assume that's true for a moment..."
@KhaiJB: Yup... I pointed that out last week, but whatevs... apparently when the Earth was moved, it brought its space/time rift along, but left the TARDIS behind. Although... I was obsessing about this the other day. (Can you tell I have no life?) And it occurred to me: if Cardiff's space/time rift was really at a fixed point in time and space, wouldn't it stand still as the Earth rotated and revolved around the sun? So maybe the rift is attached to Cardiff somehow?
@Spoonman: Back in the Sontaran episode, the Doctor had transmatted to the Sontaran ship, and had already failed to destroy the Sontarans by the time Sergey Brin showed up, IIRC. Plus, Sergey's actions had the effect of saving the human race no matter how you look at it. More than just the Doctor's life was at stake.
So the Doctor-dupe was emotionally scarred before he destroyed the Daleks? And we saw this when? I'm just saying, in an episode that spent so much time wallowing in psychobabble and melodrama, we could have spent fifteen seconds establishing that fact before it became a convenient reason to give Rose her own Doctor-shaped teddy bear.
@Spoonman: Plus, the thing about Dalek Caan... So okay, he saw the time vortex in a better and shinier way than Rose and the Master, whatever... that still doesn't make him a magical prophet who knows everything that's going to happen. We've been told over and over that time is mutable, that people's choices matter. Otherwise, the Doctor would travel to different times, twiddle his thumbs, and leave. There are fixed points in history that you shouldn't mess with, like the eruption of Pompeii, but there's also a lot of stuff that's totally mutable. So how does Dalek Caan know we're going to "see the Doctor's soul"? He knows it, because RTD thought, "hey it would be cool to have a prophecy!"
I'm just glad it had a sad ending without a wacky interruption. And hopefully all those Rose Tyler fans will shut the hell up now.
Still those, that was pretty good abide a bit fanservice-eee. Rather than an epic conclusion featuring all of the Doctor's recent companions, it felt a bit more tacked on in the end to just throw them all up in there. To much
I think The Doctor totally mindraped Donna. Which is a real pity. In this episode, she probably has the most important role she's ever held in the show, but in the way it was set up she was just ancillary to everybody else.
I also think they need to stop being fucking children. Somebody should've actually died. Donna should've actively protested or stopped that mindraping, gone home to her family and said goodbye, and then been laid to rest. I'm not happy with her coming out of a situation like that alive, as much as I enjoyed her.
Too many questions come out of this. If Dalek Caan wanted to stop the Dalek empire, why not just NOT save Davros? Or, I don't know, shoot him dead after finding him? Why did they only test the reality bomb on humans, when they at the very LEAST had the option of harvesting adipose children? Why would the daleks knowingly take a planet that the doctor frequents?
The whole thing felt like over-the-top fanservice. Biggest groaner of the episode? K-9. K-9 being called out of his box by sarah jane to upload the TARDIS basecode. That whole little section of the show, that stumbling block of a few minutes time, all designed to let K-9 show up amidst all the other familiar faces.
And in honesty - I'm not looking forward to the christmas special right now. After this huge fanservice with the Daleks, to know that what I'm looking forward to is the return of the Cybermen is a huge letdown. I've watched the Daleks and the Cybermen get bitchslapped back down a couple times now - give me something else, already. Even the kids you're designing this show around are capable of fearing something else.
I'm just glad it had a sad ending without a wacky intervention mucking it up. And hopefully all those Rose Tyler fans will shut the hell up.
It was pretty good though, abide a bit fanservice-eee. Rather than just putting all of the Doctor's recent companions together for an epic finale, they seemed to just be thrown in there for the sake of all being there.
@Maldron: Yeah, but this time there will be Cyber-wraiths! They're like steampunk cybermen, with bronze masks and funny cloaks. You can't possibly not be excited about that! Okay, maybe not.
Just reading up on 'The Rift', apparently it could have been made before time itself. Now why would it linked to a place on a planet in orbit that is yet to exist... ugh I'm going bed. Once again, nice recap.
@Charlie Jane Anders: ... I'd be excited about steampunk Cybermen. *twiddles fingers, eyes pointed ashamedly at the floor.* They could kill people by boiling their innards with steam.
Ever since finding out that RTD is actually homosexual it makes saying this more difficult: GGGAAAAAYYYYYYY!
That was the worst form of self-congradulatory-masturbation TV I have ever seen.
The only parts I absolutely loved was when Jack (more or less) asked Martha to join Torchwood (I might start watching that again) and the Daleks speaking German: EXTERMINEEREN!
I hope Rose is gone for good. I'm so sick of Billie Piper's Baboon face and bitchy attitude. Why did she get such a huge role here and Martha got thrown to the wayside? Freema, I love you. You can ride my Tardis any time.
Most importantly; MORE ALIEN PLANETS. If I see another quaint brick and mortar English suburb...I'll come to io9 and post moody little comments. I mean it.
@Spoonman: No, it does have to make sense. The TARDIS is allowed to be bigger inside and out because those are the rules of the setting. Once you establish the rules, you stick with them and don't deviate. It doesn't really matter too much what the rules are, so long as you're consistent about them.
In this, we get RTD introducing a bunch of new rules and items (Haagen Dasz device, warp star (which doesn't explode- it takes Kirby to the next stage!)) and tossing them aside. Defusing the major conflict with button pushing and technobabble? I understand that this is Doctor Who, but there's something underwhelming about tapping a few keys on a random console that, until now, seemed unimportant and making the bad guys go away.
You're right- it's supposed to be entertaining. That cheap resolution of a conflict isn't entertaining. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence. Just because it's a family program/kid's show doesn't excuse shoddy writing.
@t3knomanser:it takes Kirby to the next stage
Brilliant! I Lol'd
"...show doesn't excuse shoddy writing."
Agreed. This Inconsistency and Pantheon-Ex-Machina crap has to end.
Man, I'm with most of you, this was a bit of a let down. For the most part I've really enjoyed Donna as a companion and she really got the short end of the stick here. And Dr-Beta getting to live happily ever after with Rose was terrible, absolutely terrible.
I'm also not looking forward to the Christmas show. Cybermen, yet again. Oh yippie.
@Maldron: I agree! Donna, supposedly imbued with Timelord genius, KNEW what was happening to her and said she wanted to stay - she kept saying "no please no" when the Doctor was ripping her memories out of her head. Good to know the Doctor respected all she had done saving the universe and all.
What is it with the Doctor and little weird half-lives being better than death this season? It was the same thing when he put his future-girlfriend into cyberspace.
I kinda liked Rose in "Turn Left" - she did good there. But they should have left it at that. She added nothing to the plot. Absolutely nothing. And the Doctor-lite for her to take home? Blegh. Jackie's presence was equally pointless. Mickey....well they needed to bring him back to add to Torchwood. So I forgive that one.
And I did cry! I cried when I saw the Doctor kill the Donna I'd come to love and turn her back into the irritating X-mas special Donna. Sigh.
Yeah. Who needs a break.
I really didn't mind the worst excesses of the episode. I groaned when the Doctor cheated death, I laughed at the German Daleks, I cheered at K-9's cameo, I grinned at the TARDIS party while Earth was being dragged about like a spherical caravan, I even expected New Doctor to bugger off back home with Rose.
Yes, I expected that, and that scene drew to a nice tidy close...... or so I thought. RTD just had to throw in the i wuv you confession and Tennant-Piper face chewing just to please the shippers. It really didn't need to happen.
I mean REALLY.
Sure, I can accept the character of Rose was important for lots of fanwanky reasons, but now she's been put on a pedestal for all oversexed teens to worship as the BESTEST and MOST IMPORTANT companion EVAR because she made the Doctor fall in WUV. OTP!!!!!11
@Numerous:
I agree, surely it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for them to use another of the Doctor's old enemies or invent another race. I'm hoping for an episode with the Silurians meeting a young HP Lovecraft a la "The Unicorn and the wasp". Also, here's hoping they follow things up with the Shadow Proclamation, they really left things hanging there.
Sorry, I meant sea devils, not silurians. I need to brush up on my classic who methinks.
@CribbageLeft:"MORE ALIEN PLANETS"
This bears repeating. Back in the old days, a single gravel quarry was a thousand different alien worlds, and our disbelief was suspended on the strength of the storytelling.
Now, they have the budget to make convincing alien worlds, and they blow it on "TARDIS tows the Earth"?
To me the Doctor 2/Rose ending wasn't happy, because he was awkwardly established to somehow have all the Rose memories but yet is supposedly the equivalent of the scarred Doctor of Series 1. So that nonsense aside, Rose seems to be reluctantly accepting Mr. Cloney, because even to me he didn't seem or feel the same. They certainly don't gush at each other when the Tardis leaves.
My biggest problem with this episode? Wasn't someone supposed to die?...Although, thankfully, it appears Donna is history, I fear her ending left too many possibilites open for her future return. A literal going out in a blaze (of glory or otherwise...Pleeeease...enough!...just GO!) would have been preferable. Mere mind wiping doesn't quite do the trick.
Best lines in the show came from, who else, Captain Jack, although the Doctor double mimicking the uber annoying Donna was a bit amusing.
Ok, fine, add Martha to TORCHWOOD...but Mickey? NOOOOOOOO!
Say it ain't so! And while I'm thinking of it...NOT enough Ianto in this one.
After TORCHWOOD went out with a stunning, emotionally explosive two-parter I was hoping to get a bit of the same from WHO. Given that the rest of this season, with the exception of the Silence in the Library two-parter did not live up to previous seasons, I guess it shouldn't have surprised me.
Still...looking forward to the Christmas special...sans Donna. YAY!!! (does the happy dance)
Since I was expecting a finale of the RTD-type "Journey's End" lived up to my expectations. What's sad is that my expectations were set so low, because of the gradual decline in Who since the re-launch.
My complaints:
1.a beta-Doctor was supposed to be half-human half-Time Lord like the Doctor-Donna (arguably exactly like her), why isn't he going to die from the misplaced Time Lord knowledge?
1.b The Doctor-Donna said "I got the best part, the brain." You would think that a time-lord brain COULD contain Time Lord knowledge... right?
2. Who died? Dalek Caan promised me a death. This season's repeated gift of half-lives is empty. No one grows if no one dies. Remember season one when the tree woman choose a fiery death to help the Doctor in "The End of the World"? When the lone Dalek killed itself in "Dalek"? When Pete Rose killed himself to settle the paradoxes in "Father's Day"?
3. The nonsense about towing the Earth.
4. beta-Doctor killing all the Daleks. Really? Didn't seem like the right way to resolve the New Dalek Empire threat.
5.a Donna's Time Lord-ness being activated by Davros.
5.b The way Donna used her Time Lord-ness/see-look-I'm-a-temp-powers.
Partially I'm glad I'm not running the show, because my vision for it is much darker. And yes I did sob a bit, at all the appropriate parts. I just hope Moffat can give us something new, maybe less "the Earth is in danger" stuff, and more stories focused on the minutiae of alien life.
Slightly off-topic: which of these is not like the other? Eternity (the rest of your life) spent encased in incredibly dense chains, beyond a collapsing galaxy's event horizon, trapped in every mirror in existence, suspended in time as a Scarecrow, in a computer program with artificial children (among others), worshiping a reluctant savior, loving a facsimile, or thinking yourself to be worthless. One man's eternal prison is another's Elysian Field, apparently. By the way, those are the fates of father, mother, sister and brother -of-mine, River Song, the family Caecilius, Rose, and Donna, respectively.
This finale was much too long, and a lot of the fanservice could have been cut out. There's enough fanfic elements in this episode to keep anyone's nerdrage going for weeks.
I like to believe that Torchwood doesnt use the the Rift but more like they have a big battery stored with "Rift energy". Then again, I never watched Torchwood closely.
Donna really grew on me too this season. Im really not sure where I would rank her as companions go, but definitely near the top. Mainly cause she wasnt all "lovey-dovey" and doe-eyed about the doctor. She totally got the shaft and I think I would have been happier if they did kill her off instead of metaphorically. Give the doctor some real anguish to deal with. I totally loved her as half Timelord. I thought she was really funny mimicking the doctors mannerisms. It would have been cool if they worked her somehow as Romana.
Davros' speech about his "final victory", showing the doctor himself; turning his companions into soldiers was fitting and something that was nice to address, but I gotta say - give beta-doc some slack. After ALL that the Daleks and Davros have done, do they really deserve mercy. I mean really, they were about to destroy everything in the entire existance and reality. Screw that, fry 'em.
It would be nice for the writers to come up with a new "arch" enemy to take the place of the Cybermen/Daleks for a couple of seasons or so. Every year they come back and get destroyed only to come back at the tail end of the next season. Give them a rest.
@Spitfire178: The repeated destruction of the Dalek's happens so often in Who that it's practically an institution. But they shouldn't show up inevery damn season. Not every story has to touch on the Daleks in some way.
The fun in watching Doctor Who is slowly getting away from me.
Meh.
I don't know what the point of Doctor Brown/Doctor Blue was when it would've made more sense to me for Rose's parallel universe to have its own Doctor anyways.
Also, I'm with the chorus: the resolution of Donna's ark was awful. What the Doctor did was completely antithetical to his whole shtick about "everybody dies, but make the most of it and squeeze all the richness out of life." I was reminded of that bit a few weeks ago with River Song: "Time can be rewritten," says the Doctor. "Not those times. Not one line. Don't you dare," she said. Doctor Who: what a douche bag.
Is Spoonman really dragging out that old horse's corpse? You know, the one about how entertainment's only purpose is to batter our synapses with candy-coated joy particles, and should NEVER, EVER, EVER be scrutinized by ANY kind of logic whatsoever? Be sure you tell the liberal arts department of every college and university in the world - they would probably like to know that they're not supposed to treat entertainment with even the slightest modicum of respect, logic or reason.
Anyway, I do agree with one thing that Spoonman said - about the causation of the Doctor's double. See, the hand was cut off at an earlier point in the Doctor's life, when he was still full of hate or whatever - the Hand Doctor lacked the full memories of the Alpha Doctor. So what was a natural, if not bloodthirsty act on the Hand Doctor's part was distasteful and incomprehensible to the Alpha Doctor, who had all that time with Rose and Martha and Donna to teach him his humanity. I agree with Charlie, though - that doesn't excuse the obvious fandering.
I've only come to Who recently, so these season-ending episodes always confuse me. I'm glad I have Charlie's recaps to keep me up on things.
More and more I have the impression that RTD wants desperately to get into the powerful stories that show up in myth-arc heavy shows like BSG and the X-Files -- and yet doesn't want to give up the monster of the week stories that are so accessible to more casual fans.
The more I think about it, the more I think that this plotline could have worked really well as a novelization. I think there have been a number of interesting moments throughout this series, focusing on the choices that the Doctor makes -- easily or agonizingly -- and Davros' speech, accusing the Doctor of weaponising his companions, could have tied into that nicely. As could the cloned version of the Doctor -- representing a variant of the idea that if we could go back into our pasts and have the chance to do things over, we would do them differently.
Of course, we can't -- and the cloned Doctor is just as warlike as his original, too.
But because they were cramming so much stuff into the episode, it's easy to forget the potential for connections with everything else that's gone on.
Whether or not the clone was a good resolution to the Rose story, I do think it had other potential. But it ended up unexplored.
The resolution to Donna's arc really left me sad and angry.
RTD viewed the new DW series as an exercize in camp, enlarging all the DW tropes to ridiculousness to celebrate them (the first word out of DW's mouth in the entire new series is "RUN!"). I viewed the finale as RTD saying goodbye in the same way he said hello, only compressed and maybe cranked up to 11 in places.
@KhaiJB: Also, it's an artificial rift built to trap abaddon, so its going to stay in Cardiff.
Overall, yeah, about magic at the end--I think we won't be seeing the Davies/Torchwood/Buffy style magic much with Moffat. They'll still be plot holes and deus ex machina, but it's Doctor Who, that's always there.
Oh, also, maybe the "most loyal companion" who was going to die was simply Harriet Jones.
As someone who remembers the old Davros and Sarah Jane/Tom Baker years and loves Torchwood, I did not mind all the fan service.
I do agree that Rose was a bit of a limp noodle this season and her presence unfairly overshadowed Donna's big finale.
I am seriously hoping they somehow go back and revisit Donna's character because ending up as she did (back at square one) seriously ticked me off. I was hoping for at least a Doctor's Daughter type ending where she recovers (don't much care how).
Looking at the potential Tochwood lineup with Ianto, Gwen, Mickey and Martha, I am still undecided on how this will play...(needs more Owen me thinks).
I think what the article is really missing (and what I think RTD was trying to convey) that Beta-Doctor wasn't scarred from blowing up the Daleks, but that his "human" bit is hisbad part. The part that reveled in the time war and blew the universe (as they knew it) up because he was so angry/defeatist, just like he did with the Daleks here ("they'll still take over the universe" or whatever rationalizing he did). The Doctor always thought the time lords were stodgy and listless, but aside from a few bad apples they were all peaceful, good people. It makes sense that all this anger and hatred that we've seen in the modern doctor was a product of his "humanity."
As for Donna's resolution, I also felt cheated. If they're going to bring back the Daleks, bring back Davros, and break up the whole mystique they've built up around the time war, it was a bit silly to have the person at the center of whatever only be special because she happened to be right next to a disembodied hand. If they were going to have a giant fan wank, they should have just included Romana.
. . . I suppose that last sentence could have been worded more artfully.
The way I felt about it was that it was a pretty awful way to finish the two-part plot, but a pretty fantastic end to the season. Donna's fate was heartbreaking and pretty perfect. I'm not always a fan of happy endings, and I thought it did a tragic ending very well.
Also, Rose should NOT have come back. There was no point. No. Point. Rose didn't do anything someone else couldn't have done. Hell, Rose didn't do anything PERIOD, save for getting the Doctor shot and causing a horrible, horrible cop-out. Her "happy ending" was so forced and awful, I cringed. As I said in an earlier thread, to me she already had her ending, and it was great. I defended her in Left Turn, but this finale has retroactively canceled that goodwill. Rose left the show TWO YEARS ago. She didn't need to come back.
I wholly agree this should have been Donna's episode and Rose should have been kept out of it. But, while I did want Rose to finally hear 'I love you' from the Doctor, the way it was done was such a let down. And why could Micky choose to stay in 'our' world but Rose and Jackie had to go back to the parallel?? supa lame!
ack poor Donna. I'm sad to see her go, I really liked her as a companion. I was so excited when she first got part of the doctors brain! Brilliant bit.
I thought it was a great episode. Doctor Who was never all that "believable" to start with. A teacup and some forks suddenly form a detector machine that lights up? Come on people. Doctor Who is very fanciful, always was, always will be. It takes things fast and loose, that's how it is.
I also think io9 should get some writers who actually have SOMETHING nice to say about SciFi once in a while. As it is, according to io9, every thing sucks. It's annoying.
The title of this episode should have been Rose Gets a Real Doll. That 'OK, you get the genocidal aging fake Doctor, but at least he'll sleep with you' scene had me cringing.
And Original Doctor didn't seem too sorry to leave Rose now that she had a pretend friend to keep her happy.
The human doctor killing the daleks was an interesting way to go, but I didn't think they made enough of it. To think of that powerful scene in whatever Tom Baker ep it is where he considers it...and then this was just a sort of shouty short nothing.
I do really like Tennant, though. I'm glad he's not leaving.
Over all, much better than last years pile of poo. A slightly off-center diversion towards the middle, but alas, it held all the aspects need to capture the minds and imaginations of this group of fan-boy wankers. The specualtion was fun (even when some of it was wrong) The Ood Clue...come on The DoctorDonna that is the best you got....the bits of fluff fit and folded over neatly the gapeing holes of logic. Move along .... it has been over anaylized by blokes more dweebed-up than I....and I found it engaging but too long by 1/4..... roll out my cybermen if it means less farts by the slitherens.
My question is, does the fake regeneration count? Is he now technically the 11th Doctor, or was it a freebie because he didn't actually change? I need answers!
And I kind of want all Daleks to speak German now. That was hilarious.
I miss Eccleston's Doctor. He just seemed like a more complex individual than the other incarnations. I was completely pulled in that first season. Each season after, however, I keep losing interest.
IMO it should count as a regeneration cycle. I mean if he didnt have the hand there he would have ending up changing form. While he only used part of the regeneration energy, the transfer still started. He wouldnt be the 11th Doctor, though, because its the same form/personality.
Yeah... this was special. Doctor Who has gone from being fresh and unique to being very, very bland. It seems like every season is the same old shtick...
The Doc gets a new female companion and has some "love-that-cannot-be plot" bit, there a "Doctor Light" episode which has a 75% chance of being utter CRAP, the Cybermen and Daleks show up, hot off of being recently 'defeated once and for all', and at the end of the day, somebody pulls a Roman God Machine out of his hat and saves the universe... often undoing all the sad terrible things in the process.
I mean, seriously. Let's take a look at some of the bigger Deus Ex Machinas this show has stuck in our faces...
Captain Jack is dead? That sucks... DEUS EX IMMORTALITY! Now he's all better. And can't die at all! ...but now the Doctor hates him, and has hung a sign over the Companion bunk that reads "No Blokes", so you have to go enjoy a spinoff now. (And then turn into a giant head and eventually die... whatever.)
The Master has conquered the Earth and turned David Tenett into an wrinkle old pickle creature? DEUS EX PARADOX! It never happened! See? Everyone's happy and safe. Yay.
(Person A: "But I thought you couldn't re-write your own timeline..."
Person B: SHUT! UP! YOU SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH!)
Oh no! There are MILLIONS of terrible machine men/ machine fire hydrants bent on killing the universe? We cannot possibly stop them all? This is a true crisis? DEUS EX SPECIAL EFFECT THINGY! Oh, blimey, they're all dead. I wonder why we didn't think of that before? It worked the LAST 4 times this happened.
...and that's not even all of them!
The first series was fresh, and different, and the Doctor was different, too. He'd come off a war, and it had been rough, and he was rough for it. Then he had a midlife regeneration, and decided it would be more fun to be a goofy ponce who can't really get brooding quite right. It's been getting steadily worse since then, I feel, but I can tell you the PRECISE moment this show jumped the shark.
That would be the 2006 finale, when you had Daleks, Cybermen, and a great big stupid Dues Ex Machine fix the whole thing, but also trap Rose in an alternate dimension.
"But why?"
"Oh, cause of this (technobable)."
"Drats!"
Still, this series DID have some redeeming moments. Like the fact that despite being a chick, Donna was very much NOT into the Doctor, and was instead a 'buddy' character. The "we're not married" bit got old, but her 'hands off, bucko!' moments grew on me. And it was a welcome relief from the string of doe-eyed bimbos. And yeah, that includes Captain Jack.
And, at least they didn't feel the need to wrangle the Cybermen in this year. ...except, they'll apparently be back for Christmas. Balls.
Ok. Seriously, give the show a break. Come back in 2010 with a new, less goofball Doctor. Give the Daleks and Cybermen a chance to be REALLY DEAD for a bit, so when they actually show up again, it means something. Show us what happened to Gallifrey, deal more with the Shadow Proclimation, touch on the Master/Doctor relationship a bit, and for GOD SAKE, stay out of Cardiff.
@Canarybird: God, let's hope so. Mind, I'm still WATCHING this show, but I really hope they start wrapping this fish up. Let's give him a little twinge of encroaching mortality, maybe? I'm not saying I want the show to end, nessicarily, but it's the kind of thing you really should touch on if you're writing this show, isn't it?
My big question is what is up with the ring that Donna's wearing? It really seemed as though there was a decent amount of focus on it.
Overall, I enjoyed it a lot but one thing bothers me:
If American comicbooks have taught us anything at all, it's that CLONES SUCK! Just ask Spider-Man.
Even more so when they are given as a half-assed consolation prize to a well loved heroine who can't have her happy ending with the hero (wether because the actress has moved on to other things or the producers wanted to do more companions I'm not sure which). This is not to say I'm an offended Rose/Doctor shipper or anything. I've loved all the companions but hey, this was Rose. This was following up on a very big deal in the life of this show and the characters.
I don't think I even minded the clones actual function in the plot but they lost me when they had him sticking around and even moreso when he was handed off to Rose like a plush toy from a carnival game. Also, if this is to be Rose's ultimate ending, it's wonky at best and if it isn't then the only thing more dumb than this will be what they do to write their way out of it.
I can totally sympathize with the fans and the writer for wanting to find a way to end her story that wasn't just having her stuck on a beach in an alternate universe left to cry in the sand, I really do. But I don't think this was the best solution at all.
Clones. Fah!
Oh god, I hadn't even realized the rape-iness of what he does to Donna - I'd been too busy being pissed at 10a for foisting off 10b on Rose. God. What a douche bag.
The one thing that almost saves the beach scene and poor Rose getting stuck with a dying clone Doctor with no TARDIS, is that Rose seems completely aware of how fucked up this is.
Sure, she was briefly distracted from being weirded out by making out with 10b (although frankly, that kiss didn't look very good - but maybe I've been watching too much Torchwood), but I am glad at least that the last shot of Rose and 10b is of them giving each other an awkward "crap, now what?" look. Very "The Graduate."
But it still pisses all over the beauty of Doomsday, and is hereby stricken from my personal canon. Yup yup.
@MattComix: Well actually the one positive I see is that there *is* a good way for them to write their way out of it. 10b is stuck with stinky old Rose on stinky old Earth with no TARDIS and a limited life span and a supposed mild genocidal tendency, yeah? Seems like all the ingredients we need to get an Evil!Doctor as our arch-villain some time around season 6. And a great way to keep Tennant around after 10 has regenerated for reals.
Lizzie24601: That's kinda what I'm afraid of. He's left her with 10b and he goes bonkers then it leads directly into another issue this show has which is unintentionally (or sometimes intentionally) making the Doctor look like a jerk in the context of his effect on companions lives while at the same time professing how wonderful he is.
Not even to say he isn't wonderful or that he hasn't had positive effects in his action or on the lives of his companions. However, I think sometimes the writers seemingly heavy focus on making the Doctor dark and flawed and wanting to show consequence to his actions after awhile begins to undercut the characters basic structural integrity as a hero. I think it's something they could really afford to be more mindful of.
Without going into full rant, this episode made me glad for the coming break in the series.
It had some good bits, but it had an awful lot of bad bits, including the cheat ending.
@Lizzie24601: Can you teach me the ways of editing personal cannon?
@MattComix: On the one hand you have dark flawed Doctor. I like dark flawed Doctor. On the other hand you have total asshole Doctor, who mind-rapes Donna and strands Rose on some random beach in Norway with his evil clone. I don't like this Doctor at all. This isn't a flawed hero - this is an alien asshole.
As the real hero Wilf says, they always go after the women.
@Dunny0: Word. Two days ago I couldn't wait for 2010. Now, 2010 can stay right where it is, thanks.
And as for personal canon... doesn't everyone do that? D'you mean to say that Fear Her actually *happened* in your Doctor Who universe? I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
what's a shipper? sounds like fanboy the way you limeys are throwing it about.
i say limey with love....
Pffft. I refuse to believe everyone hated this episode as much as they say they did.
Problems:
1) The plotting was all over the place
2) The fanwank was writ large
and
3) Donna's departure was awful
but
1) RTD managed to pull a genuinely surprising conclusion out of the bag - Caan influenced events to get the DoctorDonna there (he couldn't do much else as he's a crippled, deep-fried calamari version of a dalek).
2) Fanwank? On one level, then yes, ok. But on the other hand - the Doctor leaves 10.5 in another closed-off dimension with no tech, no Tardis and no massive life-span. He leaves him there because he's dangerous - happy to lash-out impulsively and arrogantly. Rose is his guard.
It wasn't about giving Rose what she wanted, it was about getting rid of the new Doc.
Honestly, thinking back that was not a happy ending for either Rose or the Doctor and it effectively draws a line under Rose's involvement. Thank god. (And eww...something for Rose/Donna shippers there too, technically).
3) Donna received the Doctor's mind into her own head - her brain couldn't cope with that and she knew it. Are people honestly suggesting waking up safe at home with your family not knowing about the Doctor is worse than a painful and permanent death?
As for how unfair it was that she lost everything and the 10.5 lost nothing, bear in mind that he was a brand new construct using both human and Timelord DNA - he could handle the knowledge the same way he could handle one heart and a normal life-span - he was built that way.
She may not remember it, but Donna saved countless lives time and time again this season - that's more than Rose did. That's a good thing, in my book, whether she has her memories or not.
@Mattcomix:However, I think sometimes the writers seemingly heavy focus on making the Doctor dark and flawed and wanting to show consequence to his actions after awhile begins to undercut the characters basic structural integrity as a hero.
They've always done that, though, haven't they? The First Doctor almost murdered a caveman in the first few episodes and Colin Baker was pretty much psychotic there for a while - he's not a nice man (alien) sometimes.
There's no such thing as a perfect hero - kids understand that. Look at Roald Dahl - Charlie steals like all the other kids in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory but we're still meant to cheer him on.
Showing things in black and white is patronising to children.
Bloody hell I've gone on. Sorry.
@CribbageLeft: A shipper is "someone who supports a fictional romantic relationship, usually on the Internet" (Rose/10 in this context).
It can be amusing sometimes, horrible at others.
@Lizzie24601: Fear Her? I have no idea which episode you are referring too! I'd also like to add the last, say... Five minutes of "Love and Monsters" to the Void if I may.
Dalek Caan?
DALEK KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Stranding 10.5 in Rose's parallel world raised an interesting topic around here. It was also addressed in 'The Girl in the Fireplace'.
Without a TARDIS (and not counting super genius), what makes a Time Lord a Time Lord?
Also, Fear Her was fracking terrible. I'm rewatching the series with a friend who is new to Who. I've skipped Boom Town and Fear Her so far...
@burnte: Did you read my recap? I don't really care if the episode was believable. I loved last year's Gollum/Jesus finale, and it wasn't remotely believable. If you actually enjoyed this episode, then fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. If you want to say I'm wrong, then you have to address what I actually said.
I love David Tennant as The Doctor, and I loved this series finale. Nice recap btw.
And yeah Swarlanis, Fear Was was pretty terrible and was my least favorite of that season. My least favorite of this season is probably Midnight (I think that's the title of the episode).
@Lizzie24601:
I like the way you're thinking there. The "dark, flawed Doctor" could end up being the Valeyard (from the Colin Baker 6th Doctor era) who was trying to steal all of the Doctors' remaining regenerations.
I had a terrible thought. The 10b Doctor is part Donna, right? This means that not only has Rose been stuck with a knock off, theres a very good chance that any offspring that results will be ginger. RTD, you went too far this time!
Eh, what can you do about Doctor Who today? It's still one of the better shows to watch on television. And that'll keep me going until Psych premieres.
Kinda of sad about Donna. If Davies wanted to pull another Deux ex Machina, he would have had her regenerate, probably turning into a full fledged Time Lady. But no, the Doctor had to let her live her life without the knowledge that she saved the universe plenty of times.
BTW... Shouldn't the clone Doctor be calling Donna "Mother?" She is a part of him... And she made him. What an ungrateful son.
OK, so I jumped on wiki cause I'm not as up to speed on Who as everyone else. But apparently the 8th Doctor, the one from the FOX TV Movie, was half human. Some kind of regeneration kookiness that also made him half amnesiac...
It's the 8th Doctor who fights in the Time War and pulls the trigger on his own people and the Daleks. Then when we meet the 9th Doctor it's just a lil while after all this where 8 died and regenerated as a full time lord and was burdened with this insane guilt and true knowledge of what he'd done because of his restored perceptions...
So I guess 10b Doctor, being half human as well, had the resolve to kill all the Dalek's again. Like his humanity made it possible for him to even consider it.
@Witera33it: I agree, there was definitely a big 'undo' button on Donna's finger at the end of the ep. I hope they use it too.
I think Donna was the best Who companion of the new series because she was older and she wasn't afraid to question the Doctor or his 'Holier than Thou' attitude on occasion. Seeing her attain Time Lord knowledge was a great resolution on her character. The mind wipe feels like a cop out.
Rose was really well used in Turn Left but they should have kept her and the alternate world team out of the season ender. Teasing her out to the audience and then putting her back without a satisfactory connection with The Doctor would have really wet the appetites for something next season (or whenever) where she wouldn't be stepping on Donna's 3rd act.
Speaking of getting overshadowed... Did anyone else feel like Davros was hardly a factor in the story? Caan rescues him to rebuild the Daleks so they can imprison him and he can imprison the Doctor and the Doctor and kill all of the Daleks again?
And I agree with everyone else; I'm good with the Daleks and Cybermen. Lets do some new villains. Or old ones. Just not these guys for a lil.
@Charlie Jane Anders: is it just me, or is the whole, dalek, then cybermen, then dalek and cybermen, then some more dalek thing starting to wear out? I want some new bad guys, something fresh! i mean we can only bring the daleks back to life so many times!
I want more episodes like the family of blood(??) at the end where he sticks them all in eternity, that was brutal
@JohnnyZito: Actually, the half human-thing and 8 had nothing to do with his troubled regeneration. The writers of the TV-movie just added that piece of turkey as random trivia to the dismay of fans worldwide. Though the BBC's official FAQ states that it is canon, RTD seems disinclined to it, and has never even mentioned it. Other than that, yours was a nice theory.
@Discodave: Great comment. I generally agree with all you said.
Oh, and great recap, Charlie, I liked the way you tackled the snarkiness this time. I may not agree with all of it, but still, good job. And THANK YOU for having it out so early these last few weeks, I'll miss it like breathable air for ages now. There's got to be something that can compensate...
I am so exhausted from turning this episode over in my head all weekend that I can't even form a coherent thought anymore. It was definitely less than the sum of its parts, and Donna got the rawest deal of any companion, ever. I'm annoyed to see the Daleks once again wiped out in a flurry of CGI sparkles. Reality Bomb? Wasn't that a 60s avant-garde theatre troupe? How can something with such a pretentious name be nothing more than a great big zapper? Plus, why was Jackie even there? She got no funny lines and did absolutely nothing to further the plot. They should have saved her for a tearful reunion on Bad Wolf Bay.
Meh...still more entertaining than most stuff on TV, but the show definitely needs a re-think.
@Discodave: Thanks.
I am seriously thinking of just giving up on following my fandoms online. All the negativity is very wearing.
In short, I really loved the finale. Yes, it had flaws, but New Who scripts usually have more momentum and good will than air-tightness (well, Old Who to a certain extent, too) so I go meet them where they're at and usually have a great time. Yes, even the episodes with Jesus!Doctor.
@Zatsuga: What an excellent point about the "punishment" of Who baddies vs. "saving" Who companions. Mind boggling.
@CaptRavis:roll out my cybermen if it means less farts by the slitherens. Yes, please! I hate the Slitheen, but I suppose since this is technically a kids show and my kids love the "farting aliens" as they call them, that they have their place.
@Witera33it: I wondered about Donna's ring as well. Was it the ..uhm... bio-dampner, whatever it was called thing the Doctor gave her in the Xmas special?
@CribbageLeft: If it hasn't been answered, a shipper is someone who likes (and sometimes forces in their own mind) relattionSHIPs.
@Discodave: Well, I'll try to address why I hated it.
1) Surprise ending? I pretty much called a lot of what happened last week. I am not at all good at predicting television shows' futures, but just using my knowledge of RTD and his "style" of writing I knew about the hand/regeneration/two Doctors and Donna being a Time Lord. My husband can call plotlines easily no matter what show it is and whether he has seen the show before doesn't matter. Me, regular sitcoms usually surprise me, as embarassing as that is, and I still had this figured out.
2) Don't know how to respond to that really. Fanwank in the sense of all the happy endings and all the companions being thrown together. K-9 showing up. Etc. Doctor Who Confidential said the Doctor giving Rose a Doctor was supposed to be heartbreaking because it would be hard to see the love of your life being with someone who is just like you but not you and still being happy for them. Frankly I was excited about this ending because I want Billie Piper and her mouth of marbles off my screen. For good.
3) I had a problem with Donna's half death in many ways. We were promised a death and this is a cop out. Donna's character had grown so much and it was disgusting and depressing to see her back where she started. I had really grown to like her the more she grew and it felt so... just gross to take all that away.
@Charlie Jane: fantastic recap. Maybe it's because this is one of the few times I agreed with you ( though I hope I'm more charitable than that) but you did this lump of a season finale justice.
Whew longest post ever. Just to add my own two cents:
-German Daleks? Hysterical. Nearly peed my pants laughing.
-Hurrah for Doctor finally telling Donna's mum off and for Donna's mum for finally realizing she needs to be nicer to Donna.
-This episode was sooooo long. Someone needs an editor. I missed parts because I was literally bored and started playing peek-a-boo with my baby.
-I thought the Doctor was so rude to Jackie. Why couldn't she help fly the TARDIS? She has never been completely inept or anything, just a tad airheaded. I felt that was uncalled for.
-Last but not least, someone please explain:Why can Mickey stay but Rose has to go back!? I don't get it and it's disturbing me. I mean, good riddance and all but there must be a better explanation than Mickey is going to be on Torchwood.
/dons geek-club beanie (complete with propeller) and hugs Tardis plushie....
OK.... Clone Doctor is trapped in that universe with Rose. Rose gets ill and dies in his arms, with him totally powerless to save her. He uses his great genius to created a one way time machine which destroys that entire universe (as well as any chance to save Rose) and casts him far, far back in time/space and into the time vortex. His last screaming words are "This can not happen! I am the master of time and space? I AM THE MASTER OF TIME AND SPACE! I AM ....THE.... MASTER!"
@JennaW: I was thinking the very same thing when I read this page a few hours ago - maybe I should GreaseMonkey DW articles out of the various forums before I see them. But, that might be too harsh.
I honestly believe most (if not all) of the negativity comes from a good place; when people love something and want it to be the best it can be, they often have their own "vision" for success. (Am I describing most of your mothers? I rest my case.)
Sure, there are always a few trolls and perhaps I'm being naive but I feel very few people would take the time to watch an episode and criticize it when they genuinely hate the show. (That'd mean I'd watch an episode of "Friends", analyze it and jump on the forums to trash it. Life is too short for that.)
Did I agree with Charlie? Yes and no - which is usually the way with a debate. Charlie, if you're listening, I rather liked the "Gwen, you have any family.." thing. It was a toss-away wink at the 4th wall.
Did I find Donna's "fate" sad and troubling? Yes, of course. It was a cruel twist of fate that she'll never know the Ood will sing her praises for the rest of eternity and she'd literally saved several universes.
But, it occurs:
- Donna had access to everything the Doctor knew
- It was hinted strongly that she had better access to it
- She knew she couldn't live that way
Given all that, if there was any alternative to death or memory-wipe, I'm sure she would have used it.
I thought the episode was bitter-sweet (maybe a little heavy on the bitter.) It didn't make good use of characters perhaps - poor Martha stumbling around the woods with Frau Bucher!
My one concern is that somewhere in the BBC someone is thinking: Hmmm, "Blue Doctor Who" - life in the other dimension, day to day life with Rose and let's not forget the wacky mother-in-law!
Weird, am I the only one that completely enjoyed it. It seems very peculiar that so many of you describe it as fanfic and fanwank, but none of, you are all, I presume, fans, seemed to enjoy it.
I wouldn't even consider it fanfic, Doctor Who has introduce elements of soap opera, much in the same way the Buffy did. And personally I think it works very well because you introduce a history which has to be kept abreast of. In the old series events from one story would rarely affect the next story (with the exception of very large events such as Adrics death or Tegans Mara experience which only were commented on on the very next story) and it always felt very stilted because of it. I much prefer the modern approach, for example the Doctor seeing Gwen Cooper looking exactly like Gwyneth, is bound to make some sort of comment about the similarity - it always bothered me in the original series whenever he ran into Michael Sheard playing one of his many different characters why he never mentions the similarity. Same thing applies to Davros mentioning Sarah Jane, she was there where it all started, if you're the sort of megalomaniac Davros is, you may well think the Universe is organising itself in a cyclical way around yourself.
Re the completely bonkers nonsense in the episode, I found it really easy to ignore this time because so much fun stuff was going on, especially the Doctor-Donna and her bonkers technobabble. I kind view it as a game, it's up to us as viewers to work out how the pieces fit together, obviously we have to accept what is on screen, if it doesnt quite make sense we need to alter our perceptions of what we think actually occurred in the bits we didn't see : Case in point, Dalek Caan. Obviously we don't know what he saw, or how true his vision is, but we are pretty sure that free will exists in the Doctor Who universe, so we can attribute most of what he says as complete gibberish. He obviously saw the Children of Time which Davros understood to me the Doctor has more than a few companions this time. And set up teleports all over the crucible to defend himself against them with. It's Davros' work which makes the prophecies come true, not the fact that Caan has made the prophecies, similarly with the Doctor baring his soul, Caan makes the prediction, Davros then puts in the work to make it happen because he wants the Doctor to reveal himself. Although clearly it's not actually the Doctor's soul (more the Doctor's fear of what he might be, I'd say) since it is the Daleks who are the ones really responsible for forcing the Children of Time to fight.
(I have tonnes more I could say, but I'll stop here cos this post is already ridiculously long, lol)
While it was nice to have all the wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff essentially finished it would make me very happy if Wilf could come back- even for just a cameo.
I miss him already *sniff*
@SomnambulantHobbit: Why can Mickey stay but Rose has to go back!?
Not sure about Rose, but Jackie probably wanted to rejoin her husband and kid. Given that Rose nearly destroyed the world at least once in an attempt to get her Dad back, she probably wants to be with him, too. I think it shows great character that she hasn't grown bored with him yet.
(And yes, before anyone points it out, the correct answer was "because the plot demanded it")
@Shinju: I can't speak for everyone but to me, if I want fanfic (which I don't), I have the internet. I don't want it on the series.
@Six_String_Samurai: Right? I was yelling for Wilf to go be the Doctor's new companion. That would rock. Wilf never fails to touch me, what a fantastic character and even better actor.
@StuCrook: I dunno. Do you think if Rose had her choice she would chose her dad over the Doctor? I don't but who knows? I just feel like I'm missing some grand "timey wimey" explanation. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled she's stuck there, but it felt like a huge plot hole.
Who exactly was the German woman supposed to be?
Following in (and out) of her english exchange with Martha, I supposed that she was someone who assisted with house duties for the soldiers around the "Häagen-Dazs" device.
But as there were so many call-backs to previous "Who" I was left wondering if she was actually some character from the past.
But is she was just a random frau, does _everybody_ know about the Häagen-Dazs device?
@Shinju: Oh no! I absolutely loved it, even though I did cringe over quite a few things (mostly just Rose - my main issue with the episode was how completely pointless everything with her was. I NEVER felt she and the Doctor needed closure, hell, I don't even think the Doctor actually loved her, he just felt he couldn't reciprocate it and felt guilty about it. 10b was more human, and maybe thus was able to love her in a way 10a couldn't. She stole Donna's thunder, just as her shadow was always cast over Martha). Thoroughly enjoyed it, though, and like you, I bought most of the nonsense given that we're talking about Doctor Who, and it comes with the name. I don't take to tears, but I definitely got the goosebumps more than once. And I agree with your points, too, Shinju.
I think that Donna was fucking brilliant. The gradual dawning of fandom that she wasn't just annoying through the series has led us to that moment, where she shone oh-so-bright. And I think she was the only one who could have done it, she WAS special; Rose and Martha and Sarah Jane - they all had various qualities, but they did not possess the potential of Time Lordness - it had circled around Donna from her birth, and they said as much. Such as shame to have her glorious moment be cut off like that, but I don't at all agree with the "mind-rape"-thing, a statement I find completely ludicrous. I believe Donna knew it was the only way, she just had a very hard time accepting with the fact. Yes, her life sucks, but that tiny seed to make her life better has already been planted by the Doctor: Her mother accepting that Donna needs to be treated with more respect. Nothing grinds a person down more than parents not believing in them. I think the source to Donna's bad self-image is her mother, and Donna genuinely believes she's worth nothing as a result of it, which is why she acts like she does. We know there's more to her than the way she acts. The Doctor even said as much. Getting more respect from her mother, she'd get a better life.
Sure the episode was ridiculous, sure it was over-the-top and every stereotype about the Companions' personalities came to light (such as Captain Jack's over-the-top horniness), but if the episode was any shorter, I assure you those stereotypes would have been even more prominent. For what it is, I loved it, although I loved Last of the Time Lords even more, minus Jesus Doctor. (By the way - don't you think Martha's achievement was greater than anything Rose or Donna did? I mean, those two got infused with mystical energy that allowed them to carry out their Deus Ex Machinations, but Martha actually TRAVELED THE GLOBE bringing humanity together to do her bit, sleeping in ditches and risking her life every day with the psychotically murderous Toclafane. That's fucking awesome. Also, she had balls enough to BLOW UP THE WORLD to save Reality, that's pretty heavy too. But, we all know there'll be no cake for Martha, because Wose is so wuvvly-duvvly and speeecial. Good riddance, now bring on Torchwood series 3!).
The situation with Donna and her memories is completely untenable.
Are we to believe that _no one_ will ever discuss her wedding day?
There might have been a hundred people there, at some point some random cousin will say something to trigger that memory.
The situation is so untenable (especially with the proviso that you must "never ever tell", just as Rose was "forever" separated in an alternate reality) that there must be some future resolution in a future storyline.
That is unless Ms Tate wishes to have nothing else to do with Dr Who.
What do I think? I think I'm going to stop reading your Who "reviews", Charlie. I loved it. I felt good about the show. I didn't see it as fanwank. I don't THINK in those terms, because I'm outside of fandom. I don't WANT to think in those terms. I like just enjoying or disliking stuff on its own terms, not based on what a group of other people has arbitrarily determined is good or bad. But now, thanks to you, I AM thinking of it in those terms. Thanks.
I'm still very torn on this episode.
I loved the majority of it - the fanwanky bits made me happy. The stupid Rose/Doctor stuff made me happy. The little bits of Cap'n Cheesecake / Mickey bantering? LOVED IT!
The Daleks and Davros being all crazy? Loved it.
Donna being, for all intents and purposes Romana III? Yes, please! More of that!
Donna having a mind wipe? Being reset to before her wedding? Having everything she did with the Doctor stolen from her? No, plz no.
It started to have a "Flowers for Algernon" feel to it with the "Please, no - I can't go back to being that..." - I was really hoping the Doctor or Doctor/Donna would find a way to save her. Use the Chameleon Circuit to re-write her biodata, make her into something that could handle all the info... Pop her into cold-storage until he can find a real cure... anything but that.
I know it was meant for the drama, to wound the Doctor and wound the audience, but damn that was a sour note to end things on.
Ah wells... I enjoyed it, I loved most of it, but I'm welcoming the break.
@jbq: I agree, Martha keeps getting the short end of the stick.
But at least she gets to spend time with Cap'n Cheesecake, so it worked out very well for her in the end.
@Dunny0: If there's one thing sf tv and comics have taught us, it's that ANYTHING can be retconned. If Tate wants to come back and Who wants her to, it will be sorted out.
If not, well then I believe that all's well with Donna. I expect she's becoming New Amazing Donna with her stupid mom's support instead of hindrance now -- and I also think the new confidence is still there even if the memories aren't. She was bubbly and bright and didn't make a desperate play for the Doctor's attention just because he was an apparent single male.
The mind is a very tricky thing.
@JennaW:She was bubbly and bright and didn't make a desperate play for the Doctor's attention just because he was an apparent single male.
What an excellent point. Thank you for giving me some hope for Donna! I honestly feel a bit better. Thank you!
@JennaW: I wouldn't be too surprised if some of the suppressed memories begin to exert themselves in subtle ways, other than being more confidant.
"She was bubbly and bright and didn't make a desperate play for the Doctor's attention just because he was an apparent single male."
And that isexactly what I loved about her - she was brassy and bright, and willing to stand up for what she thought was right... I do think it's funny that although she was immune to the Doctors charms, she was sucked right into the Vortex of Hormones that are Cap'n Jack.
@SomnambulantHobbit: Oh you're so right, it would have been wonderful if the Doctor invited Wilf on a trip to see the stars. Even if he's said no, because the Doctor just mind-raped his granddaughter and all that, it would have been appropriate and sweet. And maybe would slightly alleviate how much of an asshole the Doctor turned into.
@jbq: The BBC site actually now says the movie's half-human thing is officially retconned. (in the fact file for Journey's End)
The more I think about this episode, the more betrayed I feel. There was a point in time - right after I saw Doomsday, actually - when I gleefully thought that here for the very first time was a tv show I could actually *trust*. There may be the occasional dull episode, but man they knew how to treat these characters, and how to tread that oh-so-thin line between pleasing shippers and not annoying everyone else. I trusted RTD completely.
That trust in RTD has been slowly leaking over the last two seasons, but Journey's End completely obliterated it. Now Doctor Who is just like any other show.
:(
Hmm, after a bit of thinking, I reckon I see what the problem is. This is fiction, but a lot of people are treating it as though that implies "but it still has to be real", and I think that whilst that is one choice an author may take, it is not the only one. Fairy tales (the more complex older ones particularly), for example are a narrative structure which doesn't adhere to reality, things occur for more reasons than simply, "this is how it would happen in reality", such as "this conveys such and such a message". In Doctor Who, a lot of what occurs ("Boom Town!" is an excellent example) is to manoeuvre our hero's into a particular situation so that we can see what would happen. "Boom Town!" is an engineered plot so we can see what would happen if the Doctor had to sit down to dinner with a monster, and if you accept it on those terms it's a great episode, if you don't it doesn't work at all.
And I think this might be why people are describing this latest episode as fanfic, because it IS a contrived situation.
But Doctor Who is always contrived, there is never any doubt at the start of an episode that the Doctor will fail, or that the status quo will be upset in anything other than marginal ways (especially true for non series finales). When you start any other book or a film you (Probably) don't know how it will end, thats not the same as watching Doctor Who, and that's partly because it IS a childrens series and is limited by that, but also partly because thats a choice that the Producers have made
Bottom Line: If you absolutely abhor that choice, maybe you should ask yourself "why am I watching this series?"
(Just a thought :))
@Dunny0: She was always immune to the Doctor largelybecause she knew he was an alien from the moment they met. That she's still immune to him after can be due to a lot of subconscious reasons -- one being that subconsciously she still sees him as Other.
And, well, Jack is dishy. I'm more into the skinny Doctor boys myself, but...
@JennaW: I noticed that Donna was all confident and not throwing herself at the 'new' man in the room too.
I wasn't sure if that was because she never found The Doctor attractive or if she's just a changed person.
@JennaW: Exactly. So glad I wasn't the only one who thought so, but I should have been counting on you and Dunny0 the whole time :-)
@Lizzie24601: Well, that cleared that up in a jiffy! I always thought it was kind of endearing, though it was a total Spockification of the character.
@Lizzie24601: Yes, well - RTD is gone now, the nasty man can't hurt you anymore.
@JennaW: That's actually a far better thought out explanation than I had for her lack of attraction to her "space-man"... Alright, I never had an explanation, I was just glad for it.
I was quite drunk when I watched it, but even in my inebriated state I could see it was a shambles. To cite one example of why RTD should give his medal back:
1. Doctor 'mind-rapes' Donna so she won't overload her silly little head thinking about him.
2. He tells the Cribster not to even MENTION all that exciting stuff that Donna and he have been up to. Just the merest HINT might cause untold damage.
3. Then he sits on the family sofa and waits for Donna to walk into the room, and be introduced to him. Because, obviously, actually meeting your alien mind-rapist face to face won't have nearly the damaging effect of being told about him by Bernard Cribbins.
I look forward to four(?) forgettable specials and then the arrival of a proper writer at the helm.
@valdemar: Can I be the first to call "Radical interpretation of the text" with regards to mind raping?
@JennaW: Oh that's a good point. Hm. For once, an anti-miscegenation bias bodes well for a character. (hm, on a show where miscegenation is actually the rule of thumb. seriously, is Britain really that awesome that mixed race relationships are so common, or is this the BBC forcing diversity issues?)
@Dunny0: I'm just gonna cower behind my sofa until that nice man Mr. Moffat says it's safe to come out.
I think the length of the episode was necessary, and worked. It might have felt long to you Charlie simply because it was longer than the typical Doctor Who. That's the joy of being on the BBC though; running over is easier to do! Nothing wrong with that.
@Shinju: You can be the first to call it tough valdemar is not the first to say it.
I am really sick of hearing it, though. Donna knew what needed to be done; She and the Doctor were usingthe same brain. Her "no" was not a "stop" but "why isn't there another way?" denial of what she knew had to be done.
If people really think so ill of the show and the Doctor that this is what they take away from that scene...
@Shinju: She said "No", he went ahead and forcefully had his way with her memories, which - ultimately - are what she is. I'm pretty sure that'd qualify as mind-rape in any Vulcan court.
@Lizzie24601: You do realize that as soon as you're out from behind the couch, Moffat is just going to toss a couple rubber spiders at you, right?
