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If you want X, you know where to find it (was Re: do...until wisdom needed...)
Alex Martellialeaxit at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 18 19:03:05 EDT 2001
"Douglas Alan" <nessus at mit.edu> wrote in messagenews:lcpue9j41b.fsf at gaffa.mit.edu... [snip]> You know, Mr. Martelli, I'm not 'tupid. It was an *illustrative*> example, not a reference manual. For the purposes of illustration,> the code I presented was fine. I know perfectly well how to write> robust macros, having written many of them in days gone by. And you> know what? They worked and were bug-free.You have written robust macros in Python? Peculiar. The timemachine must be malfunctioning... you _sure_ you didn't use insteada language whose first and foremost design choice was to use a formfor its programs that is easy to process by program, rather than onethat's easy for humans to read and write?try/except/else is of course no rocket science compared to theHigh Surgery you will be proposing in your PEP, no doubt. Butcare about little things (such as spelling, or correct usage of aprogramming language even in illustrative examples) may be agood indicator of a person's mindset and attitude.> All you're convincing me of is that you are an asshole who is more> concerned with trying to humilliate other people than trying to have> any sort of intelligent conversation.As a tiny amount of searching would easily reveal to anybodywith a modicum of net-tools savvy, I have a long history ofbeing interested in _both_ flamewars _and_ constructiveexchanges. If I had my choice each and every time, I wouldtake the latter, but of course I don't get my choice -- whenmy counterpart brings nothing to the table above the levelof your above quote (what lack of finesse -- you DO appearjust as inept at flamewars as at try/except/else usage -- ifyou're just making believe, you're one of the best methodactors I've ever had the pleasure of spectating!), then it'sflametime.> Never mind that I have spoken> in public, giving free Python tutorials and that I have relentlessly> evangelized Python as far and wide as I have been able to. I've putRight -- nor would I care much more if you fed starving orphans,worked relentlessly for peace and understanding in Rwanda, orhad a Nobel prize in Literature, _in the present context_. "Hatethe sin, love the sinner", and all that. What you are advocatinghere in the last few days is not "Python", but, rather, declarationof variables, infinitely extensible syntax (and, I gather from thegrapevine, only single-inheritance rather than multiple, and nospaces for indentation -- not sure how many other brilliant ideasyou've still spared us for the moment).If this is the "python" you're relentlessly evangelizing, then myinterest in your evangelization activities is a _negative_ one.> my time and effort where my mouth is. Because I have a somewhat> different slant on things than you do, you would try to make me feel> that I'm not part of the Python community.Cognitive-behavior terapy is something I've already mentioned inconnection to your posts, but it looks like the mention didn't getthrough. "Make me feel", hm? The only element of a typicaldiagnosis I haven't yet noticed in your post is 'must'/'have to'.> In doing so, you do> nothing more than alienate someone who is *very* passionate about> programming languages, programming language design, and Python in> particular.Our passion level on such themes is then probably on a par. A keydifference would seem to be that I would never try to *pervert* aprogramming language by totally ignoring its fundamentals, whileyou appear to be one of the kind of people who love to _grasp_beautiful things for the specific purpose of sullying their purity.Do you hang around Haskell lists whining that Haskell would bejust great if it just switched over to eager evaluation, mutability,and no type-correctness? Around XML ones claiming you arepassionately in love with XML but would want to see it drop therequisite of all tags needing to be closed and nest properly?(Etc) -- or is Python the only language lucky enough to get theunmeasurable benefits of your boundless wisdom...?> Why don't you tell your theory that anyone who thinks an extensible> syntax might be a useful feature doesn't understand the> "wellenbrofferpoftenbuft" of Python to Guido, since I saw him muse inUh, do I notice a strong hostility towards the German language inthis pseudo-quote? If you're unable or unwilling to learn Germanthis is no cause for anger and hostility (as I suspect any cognitivebehavior therapist would have no trouble telling you) -- just don'tgo around claiming "you love it but they must drop the cases andgenders and the agglutination to make you happy"... it's easy."World-view" will serve as well if the usual technical term irksyou so, you know.> this very newsgroup several years ago on how an extensible syntax> might be a nice feature . I take it from what you say that Guido> doesn't understand the "wellnenstoflebuft" of Python either.You know, the "print>>flop" fiasco _did_ make me suspect thatat one point:-). But then I rationalized that one disaster perten years is still a very good batting average -- far better thanany I can claim. As for musings, they're innocuous enoughuntil and unless they become substance.> You are not a good force for the Python community, Mr. Martelli. YouDarn, foiled again -- Sherlock Alan has realized I am but anagent of the space-eating mutant viruses. Oh well, fortunatelyI managed to fool many others into believing I was helpingthem, so our nefarious purposes are still well-served...> are an antagonistic fool. Your hypothetical army of monkeys sitting> at typewriters would better serve the community.*MINE*? _BLUSH_. You know, Mr Alan, I _have_ received manyinteresting compliments on the net, but, so far, none as high assomebody mistaking me for Emile Borel (surely, in your wisdom,you DO know HE is the originator of this metaphor, right?). It'strue that my published results in the fundaments of contractbridge _have_ been described as "takes a giant step (somewould say it goes even further)", but that was just an old andcranky editor forgetting for an instant to be cranky and oldand letting enthusiasm fire him up -- they still don't reallycompare to his "Theorie Mathematique du Bridge" (I _have_seen further, yes, but I _was_ standing on his shoulders, just60 years later -- and a greater giant than Borel is pretty hardto find all over the 20th century's horizon!-). Besides, his 'Theorie'was _much_ later than his invention of the "million de singes"in "Mécanique Statistique et Irréversibilité". [Not to mentionthe silly think-o I made in my variance estimator -- turns outmy results are at least an order of magnitude more precise thanI had "measured"!-) -- read all about it in a forthcoming issueof "American Statistician", where Dr Shuster will carefullydelineate my elementary error... Borel didn't _DO_ those!-)].Nope, sorry to disappoint -- as a statistician I'm really adilettante, and I'm definitely _not_ Emile Borel. Can't evenbe his reincarnation (unless the time machine got into it),as he died after my birth...Alex
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