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[Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit
Donald Stufftdonald at stufft.io
Sun Jun 22 00:18:05 CEST 2014
On Jun 21, 2014, at 6:00 PM, Steve Dower <Steve.Dower at microsoft.com> wrote:> We can always lie about the version in sys.version. Existing code is unaffected and new code will have to use version_info (Windows developers will know that Windows pulls tricks like this every other version... doesn't make it a great idea, but it works).>> Changing compiler without changing at least the install directory and preventing in place upgrades is a really bad idea, and with those mitigations is only pretty bad. I'm torn here, because I know the current situation hurts, but it'd probably only move to VC10 which will hurt just as much in a few years... there are better tooling solutions (yes, I'm working on some behind the scenes).>> A separate distro of _ssl and _hashlib wouldn't be too hard and has the same effect as a dynamically linked OpenSSL. Maybe we can make these PyPI updateable?Stuff from PyPI installs later on in the sys.path than the stdlib. I wish it were different but it means without sys.path shenanigans you can’t replace the stdlib with something from PyPI.>> Top-posted from my Windows Phone> From: M.-A. Lemburg> Sent: 6/21/2014 14:38> To: Chris Angelico> Cc: Python-Dev> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit>> On 21.06.2014 22:34, Chris Angelico wrote:> > On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:57 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:> >> On 21.06.2014 12:51, Nick Coghlan wrote:> >>> Such code has an easy fix available, though, as sys.version_info has> >>> existed since 2.0, and handles two digit micro releases just fine. The> >>> docs for sys.version also have this explicit disclaimer: "Do not> >>> extract version information out of it, rather, use version_info and> >>> the functions provided by the platform module."> >>> >> I don't think that's a good argument. Of course, there are> >> better ways to figure out the version number, but fact is,> >> existing code, even in the stdlib, does use and parse> >> the sys.version string version.> >>> >> During Python's lifetime, we've always avoided two digit> >> version numbers, so people have been relying on this, even> >> if it was never (AFAIK) documented anywhere.> >> > It's going to be a broken-code-breaking change that's introduced in a> > point release, but since PEP 404 implicitly says that there won't be a> > 2.10.0, there's no way around that. Although actually, a glance at the> > stdlib suggests that 2.10.0 (or 3.10.0) would break a lot more than> > 2.7.10 would break - there are places where sys.version[:3] is used> > (or equivalents like "... %.3s ..." % sys.version), or a whole-string> > comparison is done against a two-part version string (eg: sys.version> >> = "2.6"), and at least one place that checks sys.version[0] for the> > major version number, but I didn't find any that look at> > sys.version[:5] or equivalent. Everything that cares about the> > three-part version number seems to either look at> > sys.version.split()[0] or sys.version_info. Do you know where this> > problematic code is?> >> > I checked this in the 2.7.3 stdlib as packaged on my Debian Wheezy> > system, for what it's worth.>> There are no places in the stdlib that parse sys.version in a> way that would break wtih 2.7.10, AFAIK. I was just referring> to the statement that Nick quoted. sys.version *is* used for> parsing the Python version or using parts of it to build> e.g. filenames and that's really no surprise.>> That said, and I also included this in my answers to the questions> that Nick removed in his reply, I don't think that a lot of> code would be affected by this. I do believe that we can use> this potential breakage as a chance for improvement. See the last> question (listed here again)...>> 1. Is it a good strategy to ship to Python releases for every> single OpenSSL security release or is there a better way to> handle these 3rd party issues ?>> 2. Should we try to avoid two digit patch level release numbers> by using some other mechanism such as e.g. a release date> after 2.7.9 ?>> 3. Should we make use of the potential breakage with 2.7.10> to introduce a new Windows compiler version for Python 2.7 ?>> My answers to these are: 1. We should use dynamic linking> instead and not let OpenSSL bugs trigger Python releases; 2.> It's not a big problem; 3. Yes, please, since it is difficult> for people to develop and debug their extensions with a> 2008 compiler, when the rest of the world has long moved on.>> --> Marc-Andre Lemburg> eGenix.com>> Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jun 21 2014)> >>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/> >>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...http://zope.egenix.com/> >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/> ________________________________________________________________________> 2014-06-17: Released eGenix PyRun 2.0.0 ...http://egenix.com/go58> 2014-06-09: Released eGenix pyOpenSSL 0.13.3 ...http://egenix.com/go57> 2014-07-02: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... 11 days to go>> eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48> D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg> Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611>http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/> _______________________________________________> Python-Dev mailing list>Python-Dev at python.org>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev> Unsubscribe:https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/steve.dower%40microsoft.com> _______________________________________________> Python-Dev mailing list>Python-Dev at python.org>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev> Unsubscribe:https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/donald%40stufft.io-----------------Donald StufftPGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/attachments/20140621/84d43d27/attachment.html>-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: signature.ascType: application/pgp-signatureSize: 801 bytesDesc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMailURL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/attachments/20140621/84d43d27/attachment.sig>
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