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Latest comment:2 hours ago by TranqyPoo in topicEtymology Depth for Compounds & Affixations

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Welcome to the Information desk of Wiktionary, a place where users can ask questions about words and about Wiktionary, ask for help, or post miscellaneous ideas that don’t fit in any of the other rooms.

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November 2025

On IPA transcription of rhotic vowels in GA vs RP

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I noticed that on the page forvicarious, both the Received Pronunciation & the General American pronunciations use /ɛəɹ/. if I am not mistaken, this is only true in RP, as in GA it is pronounced /ɝ/. if that is true, then why isn't the GA and RP pronunciations split in words that use /ɛəɹ/? Also, in GA, should /ɛr/ or /ɝ/ be used?

Thank you for your time.Quavix621 (talk)03:09, 2 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

This general issue has been discussed before (Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/July#Transcriptions of the nurse vowel,Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/February#Changes from /ə(ɹ)/ or /əɹ/ to /ɚ/, etc) and we have so far eluded coming to a clear decision on whether to prefer V+diacritic or V+ɹ. Each option (/ɜɹ/ vs /ɝ/) has arguments for it, including that we almost never notate /ɑ˞/ or /ɔ˞/ (it's always V+ɹ) so /ɜɹ/ and /əɹ/ would be consistent with that, and would also require positing fewer phonemes / using fewer symbols.- -sche(discuss)03:24, 2 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

appoint anddisappoint

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My German friend asked me (very indirectly) why isn't "disappoint" the opposite of "appoint"? I could only say "IT MEANS POINT LIKE IN PUNKT AND PUNCTUATION", and make a guess that "appoint" is putting somebody in a POINT which is a place or role! So I obviously went todésappointer and thenceappointer: there is no French sense that convinces me "this is the opposite of disappointment". Somebody convince me. How is "appoint" really like "disappoint"?2A00:23C5:FE1C:3701:780C:E197:3C9:DD4422:51, 3 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Apparently in Middle English it meantto dispossess someone from an office, which is sort of the opposite of appoint. I'm not sure how that ended up with the current meaning.Chuck Entz (talk)05:26, 4 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Wo (falconer's call)

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Hi, not sure how else to mark that this meaning doesn't appear to come up anywhere. For wo (English meaning), it states "A falconer's call to a hawk." I can't seem to find this anywhere online. Page atwo#English. Thanks!2A02:C7E:5F26:A100:9137:C35C:8842:C86F22:25, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

The proper procedure would be to add{{rfv-sense}} to the line in question, and post it toRequests for verification/English. This was added 19 years ago when ourCriteria for inclusion were different. It looks like it came from the Oxford English Dictionary.Here is the entry in an out-of-copyright edition]. You'll note that it's part of longer utterances like "wo ho"- these can be found here and there in older books and in poetry (Sa ho-sa ho-wo ha,Sa ho-sa ho-wo ha (quoted cries not in Shakespeare),wo ho hoWo ho ho. I could be wrong, but I don't think that would be enough for the single word.Chuck Entz (talk)00:42, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Perms for my new account

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Hi, I started a new account, going byDijacz. Can I get the same perms on there as I have on this account? For all intents and purposes, it's just a username change. Same person, same domain of specialization. And I'm getting tired of having to do captchas every other edit because I'm adding a dictionary reference to an entry or something. Also page moving perms as well. Thanks.Insaneguy1083 (talk)05:07, 8 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Are compass directions comparable?

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Adverbsnorth /south /west /east are all currently set to(not comparable).
But shouldn't they use{{en-adv|+further}}?
As in "Latvia liesnorth of Lithuania, but Estonia liesfurther north than Latvia." -Vuccala(talk)12:42, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Yes. "Furthest north" is used as well.Theknightwho (talk)22:57, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Theknightwho okay thanks, and for adding it as well. I asked because, seeing as no one added it in 15 years – felt more likely to be my error than everyone else's oversight.Vuccala(talk)17:56, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
FWIW, there is a comic strip called "Sherman's Lagoon" (https://www.google.com/search?q=%22sheman%27s+lagoon%22) that played on this years ago, using the comparative for humorous effect -- talking about geese migrating "souther" (relative to the speaking character's current position). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig18:13, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Vuccala I added it to the corner directions too, but it feels weirder to say things like "furthest north-west", so it says "usually not comparable" for those ones.Theknightwho (talk)18:14, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
User:Eirikr oh yeah, I remember reading that one in the Sunday newspaper color comics!User:Theknightwho affirmative!Done DoneVuccala(talk)20:31, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I would say it's comparable, but differently in different senses:furthernorth really means "at a greater distance from the equator in anortherly direction", while other wording would be used to say that the direction from some point is closer to true north- it's the difference between distance and direction. For instance, someone who traveled twice as far from a certain point toward the northwest is further north than someone who went due north, even if the second person's direction of travel is 45° more north than the first person's. The directional sense doesn't seem as natural as the distance sense, so I doubt it's used much. I would use "more northerly" or "more to the north" instead, for the most part.Chuck Entz (talk)04:33, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

"Lua error: too many expensive function calls" on some words

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It's my first time seeing this error and I cannot seem to find a fix for this, for example in日 - Wiktionary, the free dictionaryKlahrinzWBC (talk)19:04, 10 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I noticed that today on that same character. I looked through the Grease Pit for mentions of the error message, and foundCAT:E, where it and several other common Han characters are listed. A link there then led me toWT:Lua_memory_errors. From all of this I concluded it's a known and permanent problem.Hiztegilari (talk)13:58, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
AsWT:Lua memory errors says, that page is somewhat historical, because the main problem it was/is documenting was resolved — entries exceeding the Lua memorylimit. "Too many expensive function calls" is a different problem; one possible cause of and solution to at least some cases is discussed atWiktionary:Grease pit/2025/October#lots of links to nonexistent files in 王.- -sche(discuss)21:23, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Not strictly true. SeeWT:Grease pit/2025/October#lots of links to nonexistent files in 王. @Wpi changed the code to check if every image in a module actually exists, instead of the shortcut way used before. Each of those checks involves an expensive parser function call, and these entries were already close to the limit on those. @Benwing2 suggested a possible fix, but Wpi never responded- presumably because they didn't have the time or expertise to figure out an implementation. Pinging @Theknightwho to see if they have any ideas.
By the way, the Lua memory problem itself was solved for us by an increase in the memory limit, but there are other ways that these huge single-character entries push the limits, soa is pretty much permanently inCAT:E (mostly due to using too much script-execution time), and there have been others briefly ending up there (again, due to execution time). Pages in the Appendix namespace have gone over the expensive-parser-function limit from time to time, but those can be fixed by splitting them into smaller pages.Chuck Entz (talk)21:48, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Actually, I've tried changing the module to using the batch lookup function, but it turns out that each page still counts as one expensive parse function call because they are an NS_MEDIA which calls.file.exists for each page instead of.exists. –wpi (talk)02:43, 12 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Would it be possible, at least for the small number of specific characters which are having Lua problems, to create a "lite" version of{{Han etyl}} (or at least of the first part of it, that shows images of the historical forms of the character), where editors could manually specify what images to show, and the template wouldn't need to use Lua at all, thus avoiding running into Lua problems?- -sche(discuss)23:21, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
From my memory, in the entries exceeding the limit, the majority of the images are actually nonexistent. It should be feasible to manually check which images are required and and only list the real ones inModule:zh/data/glyph-data/王 etc. –wpi (talk)05:29, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Malay & Indonesian: Help needed regarding the automated recognition of affixed terms

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Hi @GinormousBuildings, @Sponge2490, @Rentangan, @TNMPChannel, @Xbypass.

Can you helpMickaël with his question?

How to apply affixes to plural? I would guess it should be applied to the very first term:

"buku-buku" -> "PREFIXbukuSUFFIX-buku"

"terung-terung ungu" -> "PREFIXterungSUFFIX-terung ungu"Renek78 (talk)05:34, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Affixes on reduplicated words like is just treat the base as a single word like "menakut-nakutkan", but if it is SOP like "terung ungu" it is as statedTNMPChannel (talk)05:49, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Hi! Can someone help me?

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I'm trying to make a number menu as seen in for example English entryeight or German entryacht, but for numbers in Ket (since we don't have that yet.) Can someone help me?Chrysanthemum1319 (talk)13:41, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

You have to createModule:number list/data/ket.Here is an example of a simple module in which every number is specified separately. With further Lua knowledge, you can e.g.automatically create twenty-one from twenty + one. —SURJECTION/ T/ C/ L/14:12, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thank you, but how can I specify whether or not a term is animate-class or inanimate-class in the code? Plus, can I show counting forms of numbers?Chrysanthemum1319 (talk)14:13, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
It's going to need a more complex design, not really sure off the top of my head. —SURJECTION/ T/ C/ L/15:23, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I've made it like this:https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module:number_list/data/ket, but it doesn't show multiplicative and counting forms. How can we fix this?Chrysanthemum1319 (talk)16:15, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
One probably has to useadditional_number_types, something like this right underlocal numbers = export.numbers:
export.additional_number_types = {{key = "counting_form", after = "cardinal"},{key = "multiplicative", after = "distributive"},}
SURJECTION/ T/ C/ L/17:43, 11 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

What am I doing wrong?

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Why does the below not produce a proper quotation?

JulieKahan (talk)14:06, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

You're using the wrong dash.{{quote-book}}.Vininn126 (talk)14:08, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thanks!JulieKahan (talk)15:26, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

How can I rename a page?

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A month or so ago, I've created this pageкавет, but now I realize I've made a mistake, it should beкагавет instead. кавет itself is not a word/verb, so I cannot rewrite the page. Can I rename this page?Chrysanthemum1319 (talk)16:36, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Chrysanthemum1319: you rename pages by moving them. This preserves the revision history, which is necessary for the attribution required in our Creative Commons license. Only admins can move without leaving a redirect at the old name, but if you don't want a redirect you can tag the redirect for deletion using{{d}}, since deleting such redirects is non-controversial.Chuck Entz (talk)16:50, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Done! Thank you.Chrysanthemum1319 (talk)18:13, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

Request for discussion on the GenAm pronounciation of "-ing" rimes

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I have a Midland accent and live in an area with many Southern and GenAm speakers. From all evidence I have in this area, none of them pronounce the vowel in "thing" or "sing" as /ɪ/, as Wiktionary reads, but rather /i/. This difference is demonstrated by the minimal pairs "sin" /sɪn/ & "scene" /sin/, and "scene" (not "sin") & "sing" /siŋ/.Soweli Rin (talk)22:32, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Soweli Rin: it gets tricky when the final nasal becomes at least partly syllabic. In such circumstances I would expect the vowel before it to become reduced- which I would think means it would become more lax, like [ɪ] or [ɘ]. I'm not sure whether the difference is enough to shift it fromphonemic /i/ to /ɪ/, though. At any rate, I don't perceive "sin" and "sing" to have the same vowel at all. I'm from the Los Angeles area, though my mom was from Iowa. Pinging @Mahagaja for a reality check.Chuck Entz (talk)04:19, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Since the contrast between/i/ and/ɪ/ is neutralized before/ŋ/, speakers are free to move around a lot in that vowel space. In my own speech, I'd say the vowel ofsing is about halfway between the vowel ofsin and the vowel ofscene.w:California English § Urban coastal California English reports a tense/i/ before/ŋ/ in that accent at least, and I'm sure it's found in other accents as well. —Mahāgaja ·talk08:08, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

critiques of edits

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please review the critiques of my recent contributions to the Latin wiktionary by the new reviewer, S. Have made many edits in the past without these types of responses. Am open to constructive criticism of course but the personal flavoring of this reviewer: You can be read for yourself... My intent on contributing to the Latin wiktionary is to expand upon the limitations of the current book sources so as to fit with modern translations of Latin prior to 1600. Admittedly my mother tongue is not Latin but whose is? With this type of response, you will start to lose contributors: Threatened with banning for trying to be forthright in referencing the actual sources in the editing process. Stating the obvious gaps in the printed sources that has led to my editing attempts, admittedly beginner grade. But all to what I perceive as the overarching goal of Wikimedia, to capture knowledge in its most complete form without self-aggrandizement. Trolling does not seem to be an appropriate response to well-meaning attempts. Perhaps S. has too much on his plate which can be read between the lines. Please let me know if this is now the acceptable means of critique so that I can stop contributing and relieve S. of any further expense of his/her valuable time. wlWilhelmlux (talk)03:16, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

I think you misinterpreted his tone when reading. Some people here are direct, but not maliciously. He did not make threats, but informed that you are likely susceptible to being banned (temporarily) for not complying with Wiktionary's formatting guidelines (that is, by someone else who notices similar patterns and also notices that you have been informed previously). When he said 'your mother tongue', he's referring to your English, not Latin. Specifically, he pointed out that you placedhenceforth (an adverb) in a definition line under a term that is an adjective. So, he recommends that you contribute on a Wiktionary of your native language.
Additionally, he's not saying that you cannot add sources, but they should be ones that have a template (or properly formatted perWT:References#Layout). Personally, I recommend not using Globse as it contains wikidata for definitions/translations (and so it is a tertiary source, instead of a secondary source).
I admit that criticism can be difficult to process neutrally at first glance, but it's important to know that generally people here want to help others; they are not trying to attack you.WT:Assume good faith has really good information about this topic.TranqyPoo (talk)00:30, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Correction - These are more appropriate guidelines:WT:Entry_layout#Further_reading &Help:Interacting_with_other_usersTranqyPoo (talk)01:34, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
The editor offering criticism of your edits acknowledged your good intentions while pointing out the less felicitous aspects of these edits. They tried to be helpful by suggesting specific and concrete ways of improvement. The somewhat sharp tone can be ascribed to frustration by the additional cleaning-up work left in the wake of your edits.  ​‑‑Lambiam19:03, 1 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Day Zero article missing

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About droughts~2025-36737-82 (talk)04:30, 27 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

This has been used as a proper noun in connection with theCape Town water crisis of the previous decade, as seen usedhere. Does it have a sense that applies to drought measures in general? Otherwise, it should not be considered a lexical term.  ​‑‑Lambiam18:52, 1 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

On etymologies and sourcing them

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I'm currently interested in expanding English Wiktionary's coverage of Estonian terms (my native language), which currently consists of adding any words I can think of that don't have an article already. So far, this has been relatively smooth-sailing (with a lot of cross-referencing), but etymologies are something that I still don't quite know how to find. As a random example, the etymology forpõrand claims that it derives fromReconstruction:Proto-Finnic/përmanto. Looking at the references inthat article, it does indeed claim thatpõrand is a descendant of this reconstructed term, but why isn't this referenced in the article for the actual word? Furthermore, some articles include information in their etymologies that I cannot find inSõnaveeb norEesti Etümoloogia Sõnaraamat (in the case ofpõrand, Sõnaveeb has no etymology, and EES only contains cognates and a vague source with no actual etymon). I can only assume that such information comes from a less-accessible source (i.e. an actual book). In that case, it would at least be nice to know what that source is. I am not a linguist, so I'd just like to know if it's even worth it to try to look for etymologies if they're not extremely obvious (compounds, derivations, loanwords, etc), or if I should just slap an {{rfe|et}} on it and hope someone more qualified can figure it out.Zomg15 (talk)18:25, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply

December 2025

Apple Gifting Day

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Never heard of it. Is this a US thing? Perhaps mention which countries have it.~2025-38083-82 (talk)09:05, 4 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Rouchefoucauldian

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Why would this be spelled Rouche- when the name it derives from is spelled Roche- ?~2025-38881-30 (talk)15:25, 6 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Variant spelling, like how Shakespeare was spelled many ways.~2025-38624-76 (talk)15:27, 6 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I withdraw my remark. It was misspelled (I probably created the entry too). It was theFoucauldian ou. Polo-whatsisname has fixed it, thanks.~2025-38969-24 (talk)02:47, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Gracious Professionalism

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DoesGracious Professionalism (a registered trademark, official definitionhere) meetWT:CFI? The Wiktionary doesn't have any guidelines on the inclusion of terms that are trademarked other than brand names (WT:BRAND) or company names (WT:COMPANY). A quick Google search identifies that this term is used by sources that are unaffiliated with theFIRST community ([1],[2],[3]),where it originated, but I'm unsure whether or not it should be added because of the term's trademark status and the aforementioned lack of clarification on the addition of such words.𝕷𝖚𝖓𝖆𝖗𝖑𝖚𝖕𝖎𝖞𝖊𝕿18:05, 7 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

I can smell a spammer a mile off.~2025-38969-24 (talk)02:48, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Chinese

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Hello, I was just wondering where the discussion is that it was decided Traditional Chinese will be used for the canonical version of Chinese words. I didn’t know where to look as I’m only a casual enwt user. Thanks!Postleftmobile (talk)01:18, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

This goes into a little detail and links to a vote on the topic:Wiktionary:Chinese_entry_guidelines#Key_points. —Justin (koavf)TCM01:45, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

limerence cannot be edited

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Good morning. I wanted to add a quotation to thelimerence entry, but found that I could not: the page is locked from editing. Is there a reason for this? I see nothing on the associated talk page. Unless the page is experiencing current and ongoing disruptive editing, I would like to suggest that it be unlocked. Thank you.~2025-40198-35 (talk)19:13, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

It was locked for excessive vandalism in 2015. We could give it another chance!~2025-40175-68 (talk)19:16, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
After a literal decade, that is probably fair.~2025-40198-35 (talk)19:51, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thanks to whoever unlocked this entry.~2025-40198-35 (talk)21:23, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Brackets for Latin stem letter

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After @VexVector changed Latinpropitiātiō topropitiātiō(n) in the etymology ofpropitiation, I instead changed it to “propitiātiō (stempropitiātiōn-)” and wrote in the edit summary, “‘propitiātiōn’ is incorrect, as it is the stem (cf. ‘propitiat(e)’ for ‘propitiate’).” VexVector reverted this edit, writing “Reversion. The brackets enclosing the stem is a more concise way to include such information.”

The mentioned “propitiat(e) +-ion” is used for the surface etymology, where the brackets indicate the omitted letter, but the usage of them for stem letters is a different case which I have not seen before. What is our practice on this?J3133 (talk)20:38, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Changing alternative forms to one line only

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Box16 has been changing alternative forms from multiple lines to only one, including repeating the labels; e.g., atanteroom:

to

This includes cases where the label is for one form at the end but, as I have stated to Box16, seems as though it appears to all of them; e.g., atvideo game console:

to

I instead changed the label to appear before it to clearly indicate that it only applies to the last form. In another case, atpost office, Box16 only moved the label to after the form:

to

I reverted this edit, writing in the edit summary, “It appears here before the dated form instead of after both forms, as that would seem to indicate that both are dated.” As alternative forms have always been written in lists, I see no justification for moving them to one line (or if they are in one line, to insist on the label being after the term: we have both|q= and|qq=, and if one is clearer, we should use it in that case).J3133 (talk)10:27, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Capitalization and/or punctuation for plurals

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Some editors add capitalization and/or punctuation to plurals, which we usually do not, e.g.:

Is this acceptable or should these be changed (perhaps by a bot)?J3133 (talk)10:43, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Can I set my profile picture?

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I could've asked this on many other Wikimedia platforms, but I figured I'd ask here because this is the one I visit most commonly. Can you insert a profile picture like other platforms let you?

If this DOESN'T fit here, lock it and let me know.EliteSlimeJumpingAround (talk)18:45, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

This site is not like a social media profile or a message board where you upload an avatar. You can upload photos to our sister projectWikimedia Commons and you can use the photo on your user page with the code[[File:name.jpg|alt=|thumb|right|caption]], where "name.jpg" is replaced with the actual file name, "alt=" hasalt text, "thumb" is an optional parameter to make it a thumbnail, "right" is an optional parameter to make it float to the right, and "caption" is optional arbitrary text to contextualize or otherwise accompany the photo. You can learn more about Commons atc:Commons:Project scope. —Justin (koavf)TCM20:05, 14 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

Etymology Depth for Compounds & Affixations

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Howdy! What is the standard/best practice for an entry's etymological depth that has more than 1 affixation or compound? Should it be a depth of 1, as seen:computationally,naskiĝtago? Or can it beuntil it reaches the root word, as seen:malsanulejo? I couldn't find clear guidance onWT:ETY nor within my quick search of the Beer Parlor archives.TranqyPoo [💬 |✏️]04:14, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply

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