Hello,Redrose64!Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you foryour contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place{{helpme}} on yourtalk page and ask your question there. Please remember tosign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining aWikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Clickhere for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best toalways fill in theedit summary field. Happy editing!--Jza84 | Talk 13:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep reverting and posting warnings, with links to diffs, on their talk page. Disruptive, too-fast, mistake-prone editors like this need to have a record built up so that when they are eventually taken to ANI, which seems inevitable in this case, their record will be clear. I have tried to coach this editor, with limited results. The situation gets a little trickier because theydelete instead of archiving, so any case made against them will require examining their user talk page history. –Jonesey95 (talk)19:27, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in Jonesey's camp as well; the edits are almost all piddly bikeshedding nonsense, nothing individually sanctionable but I apparently have alot of policy pages on my watchlist because they've been showing up almost daily (and often getting reverted). If they don't change soon I expect sanctions.Primefac (talk)23:59, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep ... posting warnings, with links to diffs, on their talk page. [They] need to have a record built up so that when they are eventually taken to ANI ... their record will be clear.
You can't be "truly speechless", otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. Also, various people have been posting messages on your talk page formonths (example from April); and some users will watchlist a user talk page when they post to it, primarily in order to see if there's a reply. If the next few posts just happen to be warnings from other people, well, then we may have a behaviour issue on the part of the person who is repeateedly being warned. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)22:09, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
people have been posting messages on your talk page for months (example from April)
In your own example,Schazjmd, the editor warning me, latersaid she hadmisread the diff and thus incorrectly thought I hadn't followedWP:REDACT. Great example of me following policy!And let's pretend Idid actually forget about REDACT and edit my own comment after a reply,then what? I should be reported at ANI because I received my very first warning about something I had never done before? How does this make any sense? The purpose of a warning is to change one's behaviour. And I've always done that, whether you choose to believe it or not.
You can't be "truly speechless", otherwise you wouldn't have posted here.
@Redrose64: There's also theboomerang. I don't know why they are replying to something 20 days after the fact. I had this written up yesterday and never got it out:
I want to be neutral andassume good faith so I will try my best here to make a well-intended assumption. They have reasonable, advanced knowledge of MediaWiki from their off site moderation of another wiki (they have disclosed this but I don't want to directly link it here as a possible misinterpretation of doxxing someone).
I don't think they realize there's processes and more restrictions to make edits on here than what they are used to. I think their editing can be a net positive but some effort on the user is needed to be mindful of what their edits do altogether. That's not to say they have made progress. They have learned about making samples of the changes they want to do, it's just the disruptive nature needs some tuning. It's a learning process.
But now with their reply above, there's definitely a behavior issue. I don't think they really have acknowledged their errors. They are so worried about whether or not they have received a warning when missing the constructive take on why their edits could be been seen as disruptive. A lot of people have the policies and guidelines pages on their watchlist. –The Grid (talk)12:40, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
They are so worried about whether or not they have received a warning
Oh dear, I can assure you I'm not theone worried about warnings here. Theykeep being brought up over and over by other people. Warning were even theonly diffs provided onmy boomerang... How can I explain myself without addressing the main, if not only, "damning evidence" given?
I don't think they really have acknowledged their errors.
That's just false. I have replied to almost every message posted on my talk page. And elsewhere! I actually think I should start ignoring some messages if they are too vague.
I don't know why they are replying to something 20 days after the fact.
Because I came across it something 20 days after the fact.While I disagree with some of the rest of your message, I at least appreciate the honest attempt to explain your view of my edits.FaviFake (talk)14:36, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anyways, it's not long - a matter of five or six weeks - since FaviFake first came to my attention, firstly (IIRC) atTemplate talk:Preferences and not long after because they started making undiscussed changes to poilcies and guidelines. I'm considering reverting and protecting. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)20:44, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64 Thanks for your help. Quite co-incidentally I hit upon the same thing, may be a fraction of a second earlier. Because by the time I had fixed it, and went back to village pump (technical), I found the same solution at that page. Needless to say, helpful suggestions by all Wikipedians helped me crack it. Regarding addressing issues, I agree with you. Warm Regards.Neotaruntius (talk)11:22, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
History of Colorado Springs, Colorado recent addition undone
I understand the purpose of undoing the external link in text issue. Can you explain why the information regarding the Laramie formation coal zone was also removed please.SG6600 (talk)15:30, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@PhilDaBirdMan: Because for UK railway stations, we don't put the routebox into the infobox; and that's all that youhad put in. The infobox holds things like a photo of the station, the dates of opening and closing, the railway company that first opened it. See for exampleButterley railway station, also in Derbyshire. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)21:55, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And I’m doing quick copy edits, not spending hours digging up info. For many stations I’ve seen, they have the routebox and an image, and i just configure that.
There are at least three different reasons not to use template transclusions in headings, they've been discussed atWP:VPT at some point. I can't remember them all; I've been following VPT for something like sixteen years. But one of these reasons is that a transcluded template can break inward links to the section. This would indeed be the case for your example. I can't think of a valid use case for{{Non breaking en dash}} - it's supposed to prevent wrapping at the dash, but I don't know of any browsers thatwill line wrap at that point when a normal unspaced en-dash is used. So for this case I would use
===Initial years and the Paris Treaty (1948–1957)===
- I make the en-dash by clicking the appropriate link below the edit box. If you have selected either "Insert" or "Wiki markup", the en-dash is the very first clickable symbol, the next one along is the em-dash (more atWP:HTMD). Because of this ease of making dashes, personally I never use the dash templates like{{snd}} or{{Non breaking en dash}}, even in running text. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)22:38, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, if I gave the impression that I was challenging your change, it was certainly not intended. It was more a wry comment to the effect that it has taken me 20 years to become aware of the issue. And a further observation that I don't seem to be alone in that ignorance. So maybe a cleanup bot needs writing?
As not for never using{{snd}} in running text, you must be a glutton for punishment! (and I would counter that it is even worse to expose raw html to achieve the same result – prevent a line break before the ndash).𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk)09:28, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
But there's the problem: you have a high risk of creating an abomination like this:
I don't use raw HTML for dashes either – just type it as it should look – as I have done in this sentence.
instead of
I don't use raw HTML for dashes either – just type it as it should look – as I have done in this sentence.
[It's rather a contrived example but hopefully it is clear?] You should have an explicit non-breaking space before the dash. So you can write – or{{nbsp}}{{ndash}} – or, more conveniently, use{{snd}}. "As every skoolboy no". So I went to [[template:spaced ndash}} to find the chapter and verse to quote, only to find the astonishing assertion that it shouldn't be used in running prose and that there is an attempt to deprecate it. So I'm off to fight that battle instead.𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk)14:10, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm looking for an editor who understands the Babel system and who can tell me whether or not this is a genuine template or some kind of joke. I just happened across it when I was looking at some empty categories (Category:User aa-0) and never had seen a userbox to indicate the ignorance of a language. Thank you for any help you can offer.LizRead!Talk!07:13, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: 'aa' is a genuine language code, see e.g.Afar language andthis ISO 639 search. We did have an Afar Wikipedia, ataa:, but it wasclosed in May 2008, one year before I joined. As for the level zero, that is perfectly normal. We have, for instance,{{User de-0}},{{User en-0}},{{User fr-0}} and many others;{{#babel:de-0|en-0|fr-0}} is also valid. If you visit my userpage and check thelanguage list in the left sidebar, in most cases (Deutsch and Français excepted) you'll find that I have used a level zero babel box appropriate for whatever is the local language. Mainly it's to inform people who are intending to drop messages on the local user talk page that I probably won't understand them. See e.g.ar:User talk:Redrose64. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)21:29, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hey there Redrose64, I'd like to wish you ahappy adminship anniversary! Congratulations on your special day, and thank you for all the contributions you've made.
@Stateside Steve Happy: I'm not disputing that Ainley played the Master; or at least, that he did so at the very end of Part Four. What I'm saying is that he should not be mentioned as such in the infobox, which is for credited cast only: Ainley was credited as Tremas throughout. We can, however, mention it in the article prose, with a reliable source perWP:V andWP:NOR. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)20:54, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point now. I thought this was another case of someone's "reliable source" bureaucracy where a lot of the "watchers" are not genuine followers or persons with interest in the article. I see now how the practice goes for infobox and casting. --Stateside Steve Happy (talk)23:14, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I had a reason for removing the RFC ID. Maybe I was mistaken. I had originally forgotten to sign the RFC. Then the list of policy RFCs showed a link toWT:DRV but no text of the RFC. I inferred that was because the bot couldn't find the bottom of the text, and so didn't try to copy anything, and just left a link. So I removed the RFC ID, which left a new template in place, so that the bot would see a new RFC template. If that was the wrong way to try to correct for my mistake, please advise me what to do in the future, other than, obviously, to remember to sign the RFC.Robert McClenon (talk)17:53, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for healing the page on loading gauges. Somehow I managed to mess upp the table. However, I would like to see the Swedish sets of loading gauges (A/SEa and C/SEc) in the table with widths and heights. I see no reason to omit this relevant information.
We could also introduce the UK standard loading gauge W6A as a reference – I do not see it now.
I have returned to Wikipedia and some years back there was a visual editor available but I cannot see that one now unfortunately.
Your ID fix got mixed up in another editor dumping the contents of the prior discussion into the current RfC. Thanks for fixing it again.signed,Rosguilltalk23:30, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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Thanks for the edits.Just wondering why you stopped there?All the other welsh stations are all the same, I'm just eliminating <br which apparently causes issues with screen readers??
I should add:Contrary to what you may think of me, (I saw you highlight my name some while ago), I'm a reasonable chap. I'm working hard to get stuff correct and presented well, as you will see from my edit history.There is no need to highlighting your disapproval of me at every edit.
I would very much prefer that someone message and say, Why are you doing that?, have you considered there's a better of different way?
Why did I stop? Because I was seriously behind on more pressing matters. Later this week, when I have time, I will look at other Welsh lifeboat station articles, and fix those where necessary. BTW,this edit of yours was not eliminating<br />, it was overloading the|name= parameter. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)23:13, 3 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There is a genuine reason for making the welsh name text the same size as english name text, as I have been asked to do so by the folks at some welsh stations who know I edit pages. If you think I'm doing things wrong, then as I said earlier, I would very much prefer that someone message and say,
Why are you doing that?, Have you considered there's a better or different way? Rather than getting all angry trying to make a point.
I'm not perfect by any means, just trying hard to get stuff right.
First, in the edit that I linked above, youdidn't make it the same size - you used<small>...</small>. Second, you have stuffed two values into one parameter, this is known as overloading and should be avoided. Separate parameters for each name have been provided for a very good reason. Third, non-English text should be marked up with the appropriate language code, this is what|native_name_lang=cy does. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)22:01, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I wanted to say thanks for the Map updates. I always seem to have struggled with the correct maps, as the source confuses me
Maybe it needed a review of each one as you went along, as there are a couple that just don't work, or make things clear, (like Vale of Glamorgan), which may get a revisit, but generally, its a huge improvement.
I wanted to ask, if <br causes issues with screen readers, what else would you use instead of ubl, to create a page break?
The<br /> tag, of itself, doesn't cause any issues with screen readers. The problem is when it's being used for the wrong purpose. It's absolutely fine when used in a position that a normal space would be valid; but when it's being used as a separator between two items of what is intended to be a list, screen readers won't recognise it as a list - they will treat it as running prose. That is to say, if something is intended to be interpreted as a list, it must be marked up as a list. More atMOS:NOBR. Similarly, the opposite situation also applies: the{{ubl}} template must be used only to create a list - it mustn't be used to introduce forced line breaks into longer phrases. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)10:27, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That conflicts with everything I have been told about <br
So recently I've been trying to remove <br at all costs (primarily to suit one other particular editor, who to be honest has been the bain of my life since I started editing 2 years ago).
Now I understand better, it will be approached differently. I can still use <br to present things more clearly, with the understanding that in those cases, screen readers will still see all the info properly, even if its not presented properly.
First, please don't use bare less-than signs to describe markup, even if unclosed. Much better methods exist, for instance there isTemplate:Tag which I used above. Second, who has told you not to use<br /> "at all costs"? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)11:39, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Being inexperienced at that time, I just continued with what went before, but I had one editor following me round, absolutely slating the use of<br />, highlighting its problems with screen readers. (I don't know, I've never seen one!)
He set about replacing with Rowspans, but that doesn't work, as the format can be way out of line, and presents information wrongly.
He also went on to amend virtually everything I did, following me round, re-editing text, changing format, etc. Didn't matter what I did, he changed it, even going against his own earlier formatting techniques, just to make it different. One page, the text update was re-edited within 6 minutes. Often it was less than 24 hours. There wasn't anything wrong, it just wasn't written how he preferred. I've spent hours sorting out lifeboats and stations, (particularly appledore and lizard, for him to re-edit into one big mixed up list.
If I complained that it was vandalism, or edit waring, he just strategically waited 2 or three months.
I added Station honours to each page as a simple list of easily readable awards. Where he can, he replaces with a whole load of wordy text.
There isn't an edit I've made on any of the south west lifeboat pages that hasn't been modified / deleted ('his' area!).
SO - regarding the use of<br />, when someone showed me<ubl /> a few weeks ago, it seemed like the logical replacement to try in some way to appease this person.
Just a note - other people's talk pages are NOT the places to discuss a third party's conduct; indeed, it's frowned upon. If you have a complaint about a user, you either raise it at the relevant noticeboard, or discuss it with them. Talking behind their back is just asuncivil as stalking, as you're accusing them of doing.Danners430tweaks made12:21, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Ojsyork: What I wanted to do was see the actual advice that you were given, to see if it was bad advice, or good advice that you were misinterpreting. But let's leave that for a moment.I don't know which article was being referred to either, so I've had a look atthis edit. I didn't pick it at random: it's the most recent edit of yours that has an edit summary readingRemove all < br / >. There's quite a lot going on, but looking through it I find the first removal of<br /> has the old version as follows:
|-| SC-T05| HF14 HLJ| Supacat|{{small|Unnamed}}| Relief fleet<br/>{{Lbs|Lytham St Annes}}<br/>Relief fleet|{{nowrap|2014–2019}}<br/>2019–2021<br/>2021–|
and the new version as follows:
|-| SC-T05| HF14 HLJ|{{small|Unnamed}}|{{ubl|{{nowrap|2014–2019}}|2019–2021|2021–}}|{{ubl|Relief fleet|{{Lbs|Lytham St Annes}}|Relief fleet}}| Supacat|
Both of these are bad for accessibility. The first version makes a table row like this:
For asighted reader, it's easy to associate the date range 2019–2021 with the Lytham St Annes station in both versions of the table. But for a screen reader user, it's not. In the old version, they will hear something like "Relief fleet Lytham St Annes Relief fleet" and then "2014–2019 2019–2021 2021–"; in the new version, they will hear something like "List of three items. First item, 2014–2019. Next item, 2019–2021. Next item: 2021–. End of list." and then "List of three items. First item, Relief fleet. Next item, Lytham St Annes. Next item: Relief fleet. End of list." It should be clear that in neither case is there any association between 2019–2021 and Lytham St Annes. Now consider it as three table rows instead of one. The markup is as follows:
All the information is still there, and for a sighted reader, it's pretty much in the same positions. But the significant difference is when it's put through a screen reader: each station name is read out directly after the date range to which it relates. This is much better for accessibility. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)14:24, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I primarily use it for tables - visual editor has controls to merge and unmerge cells in a WYSIWYG style, like Excel or Word, rather than using code to merge cells.Danners430tweaks made16:12, 9 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@DuncanHill: If you would care to look at my contribs, you would see that Ifixed itbefore reverting your edits. I didn't count them; maybe there were 30, maybe not. But using{{sfn whitelist}} on each of 30 (or thereabouts) pages instead of one edit to a single page clearly indicates that the issue was approached in the wrong way. Did you drop a note onMackensen (talk·contribs) pointing out the errors? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)07:06, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't the faintest idea how to edit the whitelist. Perhaps you could show me? Even better, perhaps you could show the people who need to know, namely the people making the templates that generate the error messages?User:Mackensen went back and made more edits to all those articles, and more, using another way of hiding the error after your reversions, likethis . And I can see from your edits that you haven't mass-undone them, and you haven't used mass edit-summaries to tell them off for it. But they are an admin, as are you, and I ain't, so guess who gets the mass edit-summary negativity? I shall ignore the error, and you, as much as possible in future.DuncanHill (talk)11:48, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know about the whitelist, but had forgotten to update it. I did so for Dow's third volume. The edit you reference there wasn't me avoiding the whitelist problem, but rather dealing with the fact that all three of the Dow reprints were published in the same year, 1985, and there are numerous articles where multiple volumes are referenced. The default short references (Dow1985) couldn't be used because they would be ambiguous.
The no-target issue in that case is because the{{Dow-GC3}} template previously gave a date of 1965, which is what the{{sfn}} templates referenced. When I corrected the date on the template to 1985, that created a legitimate no-target error until I had a chance to update it. Because that article used two volumes of Dow with the same date, I had to use different anchor names to disambiguate. On other articles, where only one volume is in use (seeSpecial:Diff/1321509879), that wasn't necessary.Mackensen(talk)12:07, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Appears there's an error when the captions are equivalent to a command word parameter, so it thinks there's either two vertical-alligns or two captions, whichever's got the higher priority parameter. For now, I've put the captions of the images within the vertical-alignment section on theWP:EIS page in "quotes" to differentiate them from the vertical-alignment parameters to clear the errors, and left an edit comment. About to ask about this to the Linter community next. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a phab ticket on this, I just hadn't been aware of this particular error until today since most people aren't captioning images as bottom or sup, so apologies for erring with my edit the other day, just have seen too many cases where people doubled up on a parameter or tried to have multiple captions so thought it was a human error and not a bug.Zinnober9 (talk)00:28, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, You reverted my edit to add the genusPsalidodon to its own category. I have reverted that edit. It is normal practice in articles on taxa to include the higher taxon in its eponymous category, alongside the "daughter" articles, and to use the style [[Genus| ]] or [[Family| ]]. Taxonomy works in nested heirarchies (unless you are a Creationist!) and I think this reflects that.Quetzal1964 (talk)08:08, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Quetzal1964:, Yes, it is indeed normal practice in articles on taxa to include the higher taxon in its eponymous category. But that's about categorisingarticles, not about categorising categories. You should never put a category inside itself; more generally, you should not create category loops. Accordingly, I have reverted you again. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)21:35, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello! I'm in the process of analyzing recent changes data, and I came across some strange technical element across all your (and a few others') edits. If you don't mind, can you tell me if you are using any scripts or gadgets that modify/augment the editing process, the skin you are using, and also if you have JavaScript disabled? Again, this is not a bad thing, just something I haven't found a way to explain yet. Thanks,ChildrenWillListen (🐄 talk,🫘 contribs)01:40, 16 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What if I have done either of those (and I'm not saying that I have)? Where is the problem? Please indicate some bad edits that I've made. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)08:34, 16 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So why bring it up? I edit the same way that I've done for 16+ years, as least as far as I can within the constraints imposed by occasional changes to the MediaWiki software. If you want to know why I don't use Visual Editor, it's because it's a heap of crap. When I make an edit, I want to knowexactly what I'm changing. I don't want something in the background trying to guess what I intended and then saving something that is at 90° to what I wanted. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk)20:29, 16 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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and it was not until yesterday that I became aware of of wide this issue goes. I took it as read that{{angbr}} "just" prefixed and postfixed angle brackets. Hopefully it doesn't affect{{snd}} because I've used it a lot.𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk)22:12, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Enable theuser info card
with this: