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Taylor Lorenz

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American journalist (born 1984/85)

Taylor Lorenz
Lorenz in 2023
Born1984 or 1985 (age 40–41)
New York City, U.S.
EducationUniversity of Colorado Boulder
Hobart and William Smith Colleges (BA)
Writing career
GenreJournalism
SubjectInternet culture
Websitewww.taylorlorenz.com

Taylor Lorenz (born 1984 or 1985[1]) is an American journalist and technology columnist who coversInternet culture. She has written forThe Washington Post,The New York Times,The Daily Beast,Business Insider, andThe Daily Mail. In 2023, she published a book calledExtremely Online: The Untold Story of Fame, Influence, and Power on the Internet. In 2024, Lorenz left theWashington Post following an internal investigation after Lorenz posted an image onInstagram labeling then-U.S. presidentJoe Biden as a "war criminal". Lorenz subsequently began publishing a newsletter calledUser Mag as well as apodcast calledPower User.

Early life and education

Lorenz grew up inOld Greenwich, Connecticut, attending nearbyGreenwich High School.[2] She attended college at theUniversity of Colorado Boulder[3][4] and later transferred toHobart and William Smith Colleges, where she graduated with a degree inpolitical science in 2007.[5][6][7] While attending Colorado, Lorenz was a member of theAlpha Phi sorority.[8] Lorenz has said that the social media siteTumblr caused her to become interested in Internet culture.[9]

Career

According toThe Caret, Lorenz's reporting frequently concerns "Silicon Valley venture capitalists, marketers and ... anyone curious about how the internet is shaping the ways in which humans express themselves and communicate".[10]Fortune named her to its "40 Under 40" list in 2020, saying that she has "cemented herself as a peerless authority" whose name became "synonymous with youth culture online" during her time atThe Daily Beast andThe Atlantic.[1] The same year,Adweek included her on its list of "Young Influentials Who Are Shaping Media, Marketing and Tech", saying that she "contextualizes the internet as we live it".[11]Reason magazine credited her with popularizing the term "OK boomer" in a story declaring "the end of friendly generational relations".[12]

Lorenz worked as a social media editor for theDaily Mail from 2011 to 2014, becoming its head of social media.[13] After a short stint writing forThe Daily Dot in 2014,[14] she was a technology reporter forBusiness Insider from 2014 to 2017.[15] In 2017, she wrote briefly forThe Hill's blog section,[16][17] and was assaulted by acounter-protester[18] while covering theUnite the Right rally inCharlottesville, Virginia.[19] From 2017 to 2018, she worked as a technology reporter forThe Daily Beast.[20] In 2019, she was avisiting fellow atHarvard University'sNieman Foundation for Journalism where she studied howGen Z interacts with news onInstagram.[21]

2019–2022:The New York Times

From 2019 to 2022, she was a technology reporter forThe New York Times.[22] According toTheWrap, "since her time at theTimes, she's attracted an inordinate amount of online criticism, particularly from those in theright-wing media".[23] While at theTimes, she broke the story that theBloomberg 2020 presidential campaign was paying Instagram meme accounts to post ads in the form of fake direct messages on the platform.[24][25]

In 2021, while working forThe New York Times, Lorenz posted on social media in support ofInternational Women's Day and discussed online harassment she had faced while urging others to support women going through similar experiences. Subsequently,Tucker Carlson criticized her in a segment discussing "powerful people claiming to be powerless" on his Fox News show, which led to further harassment.[26][27][28] Writing in theFirst Amendment Law Review, professor Lili Levi noted "that this kind of publicity is effectively a call to arms for further harassment by members of Carlson's audience."[29]The New York Times and theInternational Women's Media Foundation both issued statements in support of Lorenz that condemned the actions of Carlson, withThe New York Times stating, "Lorenz is a talented New York Times journalist doing timely and essential reporting. Journalists should be able to do their jobs without facing harassment", and calling Carlson's actions a "cruel and calculated tactic".[30][27][31]Both Fox News and Carlson would release statements defending Carlson's criticism of Lorenz, with Fox News stating, "No public figure or journalist is immune to legitimate criticism of their reporting, claims or journalistic tactics."[32][33]

2022–2024:The Washington Post

In March 2022, Lorenz left theTimes and joinedThe Washington Post as a technology and online culture columnist.[34][7] In April 2022, Lorenz wrote an article for thePost that publicized the identity ofChaya Raichik as the owner of thefar-right Twitter accountLibs of TikTok. The details were retrieved from early iterations of the account, as well as previous reporting.[35] Raichik argued that Lorenz haddoxxed her, though Lorenz countered that Raichik's identity had already been publicly available.[36][37] According toThe Times of London, "supporters of Lorenz meanwhile pointed out that Raichik's followers were only too enthusiastic about doxing when it came to teachers being smeared as paedophiles".[38] In a tweet, Lorenz said that her "whole family was doxed again this morning ... trolls have now moved on to doxing and stalking any random friends I've tagged on Instagram".[39] Lorenz later interviewed Raichik for an article in February 2024.[40]

In May 2022, Lorenz published a report in thePost about theJoe Biden administration "pausing" the newly createdDisinformation Governance Board within the Department of Homeland Security. Lorenz described a campaign ofonline harassment and highly critical coverage from right-wing media outlets toward the board's directorNina Jankowicz, who would resign from the post shortly afterward.[41] In the article, Lorenz argued that Jankowicz had been "set up to fail" by the administration, describing how Jankowicz had become the victim of attacks by online right-winginfluencers and conservative media personalities, including threats of physical violence.[42]

In June 2022, thePost published an article by Lorenz about online influencers covering theDepp v. Heard trial. The article stated twoYouTubers mentioned in the article were contacted for comment. ThePost later issued a correction, stating only one had been contacted.[43] The YouTuber has said the request for comment only came after the article was published.[44] In aTwitter thread reviewed by Lorenz's editors and management of thePost, Lorenz stated that the error was due to a miscommunication with her editor.[23][45]

In December 2022, Twitter ownerElon Musk temporarilysuspended Lorenz's Twitter account, with Musk tweeting that the suspension was for "prior doxxing action".[46] Lorenz said she was suspended after asking Musk for comment on a story. The suspension followed a series ofsuspensions of journalists underMusk's new ownership of Twitter.[47]

In coverage of the 2024 Democratic National Convention, Lorenz highlighted social media influencers credentialed by the DNC.[48]

In August 2024, thePost began an internal investigation for evidence of bias after Lorenz shared an image on a privateInstagram story depicting PresidentJoe Biden with the caption "war criminal :(", referencing a meme criticizing the president for hissupport ofIsrael in theGaza war.[28] Lorenz initially denied making the post, and later said that a friend created the captioned picture, which Lorenz shared. According toNPR, four people with direct knowledge of the post confirmed its authenticity.[49] Lorenz never published another article forThe Post, which did not announce any findings of its investigation. In October 2024, she announced she was leaving thePost to start her own newsletter viaSubstack.[50][28] Lorenz toldThe New Yorker that her decision to leave thePost was not a direct result of the incident[28] and that "every single President that I've ever seen in my lifetime is a war criminal".[51]

2024–present:User Mag

In October 2024, Lorenz announced she was leavingThe Washington Post to run aSubstack publication called "User Mag".[52] Substack co-founder Hamish McKenzie toldThe Hollywood Reporter that she is an "accomplished reporter with deep experience covering internet trends and culture" whom the platform thinks "will thrive ... with the direct support of her audience."[53]

In 2025, it was announced that Lorenz would also contribute a column toMehdi Hasan's Zeteo on the influence of Silicon Valley tech billionaires.[54]

Lorenz drew criticism, particularly from conservative politicians, for comments she made during a CNN interview in April 2025 following thekilling of health insurance CEO Brian Thompson, where Lorenz described the suspect in the caseLuigi Mangione as "morally good".[55] She later said, "To see these millionaire media pundits on TV clutching their pearls about someonestanning a murderer when this is the United States of America, as if we don't lionize criminals [and] stan murderers of all sorts, and we can give them Netflix shows".[55][56]

Other works

In October 2023, her bookExtremely Online: The Untold Story of Fame, Influence, and Power on the Internet was published bySimon & Schuster.[57] The book focused on various aspects ofinternet culture. Some platforms discussed in the book includemommy blogs,YouTube, andVine.[58]Lorenz discussed howinfluencers struggled tomonetize their content and how prominent women such asJulia Allison are often the targets of online harassment and misogyny.[59]

In February 2024, it was announced that Lorenz would be launching a podcast calledPower User in partnership withVox Media.[60] In December 2024,Semafor wrote an article which stated that her distribution partnership would not be renewed,[61] a claim that Lorenz denied, further clarifying that she retains full ownership of the show and is continuing to publish episodes independently.[62]

As a target of harassment

Lorenz wearing a silver sequin mask.
Lorenz regularly wears afacial mask in public, citing acompromised immune system.[49]

Lorenz has been the subject of online harassment, which multiple sources have described as coordinated or orchestrated.[63][64] According to theInternational Center for Journalists, such harassment often escalates following signals from political figures or media personalities. Commentators likeNina Jankowicz have characterized the abuse as indirectly incited through critical media coverage rather than explicit calls to action.[65]

Much of the harassment has originated from right-wing online spaces.[66][67]The Independent noted that "Lorenz is a regular target of attacks from the right online, with comments she makes frequently blowing up and feeding an arguably disingenuousoutrage culture, so much so that she has been called 'the most harassed technology journalist in America' and her career recommended for study to fellow reporters".[55] Lorenz has described the abuse as including graphic threats,doxing,stalking, andswatting, affecting both her and her family. Reports have highlighted that the tactics used against her reflect broader misogynistic patterns, both online and offline.[63][68][69][70]

Personal life

Lorenz described herself in interviews asvegan up until 2021,[71][72] later stating that she had added chicken and fish to her diet for health reasons.[73] She has said she isimmunocompromised in an interview for the Society of Professional Journalists' magazineQuill.[74]

Selected publications

References

  1. ^ab"Taylor Lorenz | 2020 40 under 40 in Media and Entertainment".Fortune. September 2, 2020.Archived from the original on October 23, 2020. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  2. ^Marchant, Robert (March 18, 2021)."CT native Taylor Lorenz got attacked on Twitter. She's not the only woman to face online harassment".Greenwich Time.Archived from the original on March 20, 2021. RetrievedMarch 24, 2021.
  3. ^"Taylor Lorenz | The ATLAS Institute | University of Colorado Boulder".www.colorado.edu. RetrievedSeptember 1, 2025.In 2021, Business Insider named her on its list of the most influential technology reporters working today. Taylor attended the University of Colorado, Boulder as an undergraduate where she studied political science.
  4. ^"Board of Advisors | The ATLAS Institute | University of Colorado Boulder".www.colorado.edu. RetrievedSeptember 1, 2025.
  5. ^Roush, Chris (April 30, 2018)."Lorenz hired byThe Atlantic to cover tech".Talking Biz News.Archived from the original on January 10, 2021. RetrievedFebruary 28, 2021.
  6. ^"Alumni & Alumnae Publications".www.hws.edu. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  7. ^ab"Taylor Lorenz joins The Washington Post as a columnist".The Washington Post. February 1, 2022.ISSN 0190-8286.Archived from the original on February 5, 2022. RetrievedMarch 1, 2022.
  8. ^TAYLOR LORENZ Talks Journalism, Internet Labor, Viral Culture (Video).The Adam Friedland Show. September 10, 2025. Event occurs at 39:00 – viaYouTube.
  9. ^Lammer, Aaron; Linsky, Max (August 19, 2019)."Longform Podcast #355: Taylor Lorenz".Longform.org (Podcast).Archived from the original on January 9, 2021. RetrievedJanuary 8, 2021.
  10. ^"Taylor Lorenz".The Caret (interview). February 13, 2020. Archived fromthe original on July 3, 2020.
  11. ^"Meet Adweek's 2020 Young Influentials Who Are Shaping Media, Marketing and Tech".Adweek. August 9, 2020.Archived from the original on August 31, 2020. RetrievedSeptember 4, 2020.
  12. ^Gillespie, Nick (February 26, 2020)."Taylor Lorenz Makes Sense of Online Culture for the Rest of Us".Reason.com.Archived from the original on July 2, 2020. RetrievedJuly 2, 2020.
  13. ^"The 60-second interview: Taylor Lorenz, head of social media, The Daily Mail/Mail Online".Politico. July 18, 2014.Archived from the original on February 10, 2021. RetrievedFebruary 28, 2021.
  14. ^"Taylor Lorenz".The Daily Dot. May 20, 2014.Archived from the original on September 7, 2022. RetrievedJune 28, 2022.
  15. ^"Taylor Lorenz".Business Insider.Archived from the original on October 23, 2020. RetrievedFebruary 28, 2021.
  16. ^"Watch: Trump jostles for position at NATO".The Hill. May 25, 2017.Archived from the original on May 27, 2017. RetrievedMay 26, 2017.
  17. ^"Juggalos, pro-Trump activists descend on DC".The Hill. September 16, 2017.Archived from the original on September 17, 2017. RetrievedSeptember 16, 2017.
  18. ^"Locals march against alt-right rally in C'ville".The Central Virginian.Archived from the original on June 30, 2022. RetrievedAugust 17, 2017.
  19. ^"Horror and hate in Charlottesville".The Hill. August 12, 2017.Archived from the original on August 13, 2017. RetrievedAugust 12, 2017.
  20. ^Roush, Chris (October 30, 2017)."Lorenz joining Daily Beast as tech reporter".Talking Biz News.Archived from the original on June 30, 2022. RetrievedJune 30, 2022.
  21. ^"Nieman Foundation announces the 2019 Knight Visiting Nieman Fellows". Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard. January 9, 2019.Archived from the original on July 10, 2022. RetrievedMay 27, 2025.
  22. ^"Taylor Lorenz".The New York Times.Archived from the original on June 29, 2022. RetrievedJune 28, 2022.
  23. ^abWelk, Brian (June 18, 2022)."Taylor Lorenz Denies NY Times Report That She's Moved Teams at Washington Post and Must Have Stories Reviewed by Top Editor".The Wrap.Archived from the original on June 20, 2022. RetrievedJune 21, 2022.
  24. ^"Why Bloomberg is paying people to make him look cool on the internet".Hallie Jackson Reports (video). MSNBC. February 13, 2020. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  25. ^Lorenz, Taylor (February 13, 2020)."Michael Bloomberg's Campaign Suddenly Drops Memes Everywhere".The New York Times.ISSN 0362-4331. RetrievedJanuary 9, 2025.
  26. ^Gangitano, Alex; Manchester, Julia (March 24, 2021)."Online harassment is ugly and routine for women in journalism".The Hill. RetrievedJuly 7, 2025.
  27. ^abSullivan, Margaret (March 14, 2021)."Online harassment of female journalists is real, and it's increasingly hard to endure".The Washington Post.
  28. ^abcdChayka, Kyle (October 9, 2024)."Taylor Lorenz's Plan to Dance on Legacy Media's Grave".The New Yorker.ISSN 0028-792X.Archived from the original on November 26, 2024. RetrievedNovember 28, 2024.
  29. ^Levi, Lili (September 20, 2021)."Racialized, Judaized, Feminized: Identity-Based Attacks on the Press".First Amendment Law Review.SSRN 3925289.
  30. ^Moreau, Jordan (March 10, 2021)."New York Times Defends Reporter Taylor Lorenz From Tucker Carlson's 'Cruel' Attack".Variety.Archived from the original on August 27, 2024. RetrievedAugust 18, 2024.
  31. ^"IWMF Condemns Online Attacks Against Taylor Lorenz". International Women's Media Foundation. n.d. RetrievedJuly 7, 2025.
  32. ^Butler, Jada (March 11, 2021)."New York Times defends reporter Taylor Lorenz after Tucker Carlson's attacks".The Guardian.ISSN 0261-3077. RetrievedAugust 18, 2024.
  33. ^Armus, Teo (March 11, 2021)."Tucker Carlson keeps attacking a New York Times reporter after the paper calls his tactics 'calculated and cruel'".The Washington Post.
  34. ^Klein, Charlotte (February 1, 2022)."Taylor Lorenz HopesThe New York Times Will 'Evolve in Their Ways' As She Leaves forThe Washington Post".Vanity Fair.Archived from the original on February 23, 2022. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  35. ^Lorenz, Taylor (April 19, 2022)."Meet the woman behind Libs of TikTok, secretly fueling the right's outrage machine".The Washington Post.Archived from the original on April 19, 2022. RetrievedApril 19, 2022.
  36. ^Tiffany, Kaitlyn (April 22, 2022)."'Doxxing' Means Whatever You Want It To".The Atlantic.Archived from the original on April 24, 2022. RetrievedApril 24, 2022.
  37. ^Sultan, Reina (September 30, 2022)."How Libs of TikTok Became an Anti-LGBTQ+ Hate Machine".Them.Archived from the original on September 30, 2022. RetrievedSeptember 30, 2022.
  38. ^Tomlinson, Hugh (April 22, 2022)."Libs of Tiktok: Twitter provocateur gives Republicans new weapon in war on liberals".The Times. London.ISSN 0140-0460.Archived from the original on April 22, 2022. RetrievedApril 22, 2022.
  39. ^Starr, Michael (April 21, 2022)."US Right, Left clash on orthodox Jewish activist's 'doxxing'".The Jerusalem Post.Archived from the original on April 24, 2022. RetrievedApril 24, 2022.
  40. ^Jones, Tom (March 1, 2024)."Behind Taylor Lorenz's 'painful, agonizing' interview of the Libs of TikTok activist".Poynter Institute.Archived from the original on March 1, 2024. RetrievedMarch 1, 2024.
  41. ^Warzel, Charlie (May 20, 2022)."The Disinformation Board Is the Latest Cursed News Story".The Atlantic. RetrievedJanuary 9, 2025.
  42. ^Lorenz, Taylor (May 18, 2022)."How the Biden administration let right-wing attacks derail its disinformation efforts".The Washington Post. RetrievedJanuary 8, 2025.
  43. ^Lorenz, Taylor (June 4, 2022)."Analysis | Who won the Depp-Heard trial? Content creators that went all-in".The Washington Post.ISSN 0190-8286.Archived from the original on September 28, 2022. RetrievedAugust 18, 2024.
  44. ^Knolle, Sharon (June 4, 2022)."Washington Post Amends Taylor Lorenz Column After YouTubers Claim She Never Contacted Them".TheWrap. RetrievedSeptember 20, 2025.
  45. ^Robertson, Katie (June 17, 2022)."Infighting Overshadows Big Plans at The Washington Post".The New York Times.Archived from the original on June 20, 2022. RetrievedJune 21, 2022.
  46. ^Burga, Solcyre (December 18, 2022)."Twitter Temporarily Bans Washington Post Reporter After Other Journalists Reinstated".Time.Archived from the original on December 18, 2022. RetrievedDecember 18, 2022.
  47. ^Knodel, Jamie (December 17, 2022)."Musk reinstates suspended journalists after Twitter poll".NBC News.Archived from the original on December 18, 2022. RetrievedDecember 18, 2022.
  48. ^Lorenz, Taylor (August 2, 2024)."Democratic convention will host hundreds of online influencers".The Washington Post. RetrievedJuly 21, 2025.
  49. ^abFolkenflik, David (August 15, 2024)."'Washington Post' reviews star columnist Taylor Lorenz's 'war criminal' jab at Biden". NPR. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  50. ^"Reporter Taylor Lorenz exits Washington Post after investigation into Instagram post".Associated Press News. October 1, 2024.Archived from the original on November 19, 2024. RetrievedNovember 23, 2024.
  51. ^Folkenflik, David (October 10, 2024)."Taylor Lorenz leaves 'Washington Post' after rift with editors". NPR.
  52. ^Robertson, Katie; Mullin, Benjamin (October 1, 2024)."Taylor Lorenz Leaving The Washington Post to Start Substack Newsletter".The New York Times. RetrievedJanuary 28, 2025.
  53. ^Weprin, Alex (October 1, 2024)."Taylor Lorenz Exits Washington Post to Launch 'User Mag' on Substack (Exclusive)".The Hollywood Reporter. RetrievedOctober 1, 2024.
  54. ^"*BIG NEWS* Zeteo's Expanding with 3 New Contributors – Thanks to You!".Zeteo. January 22, 2025. RetrievedApril 25, 2025.
  55. ^abcSommerlad, Joe (April 14, 2025)."Taylor Lorenz slammed for CNN interview about 'handsome' Luigi Mangione".The Independent. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  56. ^Sherratt, Madeline (April 17, 2025)."Sean Hannity tells liberal commentator who praised Luigi Mangione that she has a 'missing chip'".The Independent. RetrievedMay 24, 2025.
  57. ^Seo, Rachel (2023)."'Facebook F—ed Up': Taylor Lorenz Tells the Untold History of the Internet in Upcoming Book 'Extremely Online'".Variety.Archived from the original on September 27, 2023. RetrievedSeptember 27, 2023.
  58. ^Sherky, Clay (September 30, 2023)."A History of Content Creation, From the Blogosphere to Today".The New York Times. RetrievedJanuary 6, 2025.
  59. ^Jennings, Rebbeca (September 27, 2023)."How the fight between tech founders and influencers shaped the internet".Vox. RetrievedJanuary 6, 2025.
  60. ^Fischer, Sara (February 29, 2024)."Exclusive: WaPo tech columnist Taylor Lorenz launches video podcast with Vox Media".Axios.Archived from the original on May 18, 2024. RetrievedAugust 17, 2024.
  61. ^Tani, Max (December 8, 2024)."Taylor Lorenz and Vox are parting ways".Semafor. RetrievedDecember 9, 2024.
  62. ^Lorenz, Taylor [@TaylorLorenz] (December 9, 2024)."This is false & there's no "deal" bc I own my podcast 100% outright, all the IP and distribute it myself through YouTube. Nothing about this story is true. Max Tani at Semafor misled people and now ppl think my show was cancelled or something. It's not! Vox continues to be great" (Tweet) – viaTwitter.
  63. ^abDreyfuss, Emily (March 4, 2022)."What the Harassment of Journalist Taylor Lorenz Can Teach Newsrooms".Media Manipulation Casebook. Harvard Kennedy School; Shronstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy.Archived from the original on August 18, 2024. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.
  64. ^Posetti, Julie; Shabbir, Nabeelah; Maynard, Diana; Aboulez, Nermine (2022). "Types of online violence and their manifestations". In Posetti, J.; Shabbir, N. (eds.).The Chilling: A Global Study of Online Violence Against Women Journalists(PDF). Washington, D.C.: International Center fot Journalists. pp. 36–37.ISBN 979-8-218-09201-6.
  65. ^Fossett, Katelyn (April 22, 2022)."A toolkit for dealing with online harassment".POLITICO. RetrievedApril 8, 2025.
  66. ^Marriott, Hannah (October 5, 2023)."'The internet is vicious and toxic, but I'd never go back to the 90s': Taylor Lorenz talks to Monica Lewinsky".The Guardian. RetrievedApril 20, 2025.
  67. ^"Sean Hannity tells commentator who praised Luigi Mangione she has a 'missing chip'".The Independent. April 17, 2025. RetrievedApril 20, 2025.
  68. ^"Journalists Face Online Harassment" (video). MSNBC. April 8, 2022.Archived from the original on August 18, 2024. RetrievedJuly 6, 2025 – via YouTube.
  69. ^Jeffers, Juliette (October 12, 2023)."Taylor Lorenz and Hasan Piker on Tumblr, Trolls, and Getting Doxxed".Interview Magazine. RetrievedDecember 27, 2024.
  70. ^Lytton, Charlotte (October 9, 2023)."Taylor Lorenz: I receive death threats just for doing my job".The Times.Archived from the original on August 18, 2024. RetrievedAugust 18, 2024.
  71. ^Stardust, Lisa (September 3, 2021)."Travel Diaries: Taylor Lorenz Hates Planes & Loves Road Trips".Refinery29 (interview). RetrievedSeptember 7, 2025.
  72. ^Mohney, Chris (n.d.)."Taylor Lorenz On The Stress And Strangeness Of Pandemic Dining Out".Zagat Stories (interview). Archived fromthe original on December 7, 2020.
  73. ^Lorenz, Taylor [@taylorlorenz] (December 18, 2024)."I was vegan quite literally my entire life until last summer when I started eating chicken and fish for health reasons. [...]".Bluesky Social. RetrievedSeptember 7, 2025 – viaBluesky.
  74. ^Spike, Carlett (April 21, 2023)."10 with Taylor Lorenz".Quill (interview). Society of Professional Journalists.ISSN 0033-6475.Archived from the original on November 15, 2023. RetrievedJuly 3, 2025.

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