Talk:Rhotacism
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Rhotacism the speech disorder is a different thing from rhotacism the phenomenon of linguistic phonetic change. Even though both articles would be short, there should be a different article for each of those subjects. Suggestions:
rhotacism (speech disorder)rhotacism (language change)—Precedingunsigned comment added byMark Foskey (talk •contribs)19:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with that completely. It's distracting and peculiar that this article begins with Elmer Fudd and Homestar Runner and then delves into comparative linguistics.24.27.25.87 (talk)07:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC) Eric[reply]
I am not a linguist, but, is this an example of this? In Spanish, the wordcárcel (jail) comes from Latincarcer. I think there may be other r -> l shifts in the history Spanish, but I am not sure. –Andyluciano04:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Spanish "árbol", from L. "arbor".The shift is apparently particular to Spanish, because French, Catalan, Italian, Portuguese, Galician... all of them retain the "r".Spanish "encarcelar" (to put in prison, incarcerate) is cognate with French "encarcérer".
The article says:
* war vs gewesen (from Germanic *was vs *wēzun)
Doesn't this contradict the general rule that thez (result ofVerner's Law) devolopes intor, while thes doesn't? Is it possible that the forms in parenthesis are wrong and thatgewesen comes from a form withs and not from *wēzun, which should be past plural and not participle (cf. English and Dutch), whilewar comes from one withz or maybe is just formed in analogy with pluralwaren?Wikijens (talk)08:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This section seems to only give instances of the fact that was already mentioned as holding for all Germanic languages, so should the Dutch section be removed entirely?
Easwaran (talk)12:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
/l/ exists in the syllable coda?? Not even in careful or read speech. As a non-native speaker, but someone who resided near Vitoria, ES, I will tell you that /l/ in the coda becomes an off-glide, ex: Brasil > [bra.ziw], pulga > [puw.ga]. However, from my interaction with less educated or rural speakers, rhotacism of /l/ in the onset can be common: ingles /i~.glez/ > [i~.grez] or through a sort of metathesis: problema /pro.ble.ma/ > [po.bre.ma]—Precedingunsigned comment added by131.91.153.106 (talk)17:47, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the "L-vocalizing" example in Portuguese. Old Portuguese didn't undergo L-vocalizing, the example given was actually a case of L-dropping, which was fairly common in Old Portuguese: celo > ceo > céu (compare to palo > pao > pau and salir > sair). Recently, Brazilian Portuguese has vocalized syllable-final Ls though, which is a different phonomenon. I would have added an actual example of L-vocalizing in modern Portuguese, but it is not what this article is about.— Precedingunsigned comment added byMatheus de Aguilar (talk •contribs)03:52, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At least they do when the r isprevocalic. The statement under "English" that "[p]ronouncing the letter "r" is common in many dialects of American, Canadian, Irish, Welsh and Scottish English and less common in the English of most of England, Australia, and New Zealand" is not helpful. It is onlypostvocalic r that tends to be silent in England, Australia, and New Zealand. Seems to me this is really a matter ofrhotacization, notrhotacism, however. --Haruo (talk)22:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why is the first example of rhotacism a Looney Tunes character? It suggests that rhotacism is simply a suitable subject for comedy rather than a seriousspeech impediment. We wouldn't refer to other disabilities in the same way.Headhitter (talk)08:14, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have Down syndrome and always pronounce my r's as w's. I have a rhotacism. It's not an impediment, it's my Down syndrome accent! When I speak, I pronounce things like, "I have Down syndwome. Thewefowe I have a wotacism when I pwonounce words."— Precedingunsigned comment added by72.70.202.28 (talk)17:20, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The article says:Pronouncing the letter "r" is common in many dialects of American, Canadian, Irish, Welsh and Scottish English and less common in the English of most of England, Australia, and New Zealand.
This seems to be the opposite of my experience. I'm not quite sure to make of it, and there is no inline reference for this. A casual look at the most famous people with speech impediments reveals most famous people with rhotacism are from a region where a non-rhotic dialect of English predominates[1]:
For every other Canadian or non-rhotic American speaker I can think of, there are several more non-rhotic Americans or Brits.Tom Brokaw, yes, of course - he is from the Midwest U.S. But then there'sRoy Hodgson (of the BBC) andTerry Jones (of Monty Python).
Others have also noticed the trend being common among people from the British Isles,[2], with a video, and mentioning traces of this in others from the UK, evenCatherine Zeta-Jones on occasion.
I don't know what kind of source could be found to support the original assertion, but I don't even think it is true.Ufwuct (talk)14:09, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is a London and S.E. England fashion. For about the last decade ALL the young women weather presenters on British TV have adopted this style.86.168.57.181 (talk)01:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In Lancashire and much of the Southwest of the UK 'r' is pronounced much as it is in many parts of the USA.Pamour (talk)18:23, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What specifically do you mean? Without clarification and an example, the comment is meaningless.— Precedingunsigned comment added by71.255.168.119 (talk)03:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sometime in the history of Greek, Ancient Greek ἀδελφός changed to αδερφός, whichWiktionary says is used in about 22% of cases in the Hellenic National Corpus. This change also occurred inArvanitika as opposed toαλβανικά andAlbania. Not sure when or in what form of the language it happened, but with a source it could be mentioned. —Eru·tuon06:17, 15 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The list of languages suggests that rhotacism is an issue in the Indo-European languages. The only example that is non-IE is Korean. Is that the mere lack of sources, or are other issues relevant here? --2607:EA00:107:3C01:1968:AEB4:1079:7DD (talk)20:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
