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The following is a closed discussion of arequested move.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider amove review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose[1][2] unless/until we get an official statement by the club owner - what I would regard as highly inadequate to bother them now. On their websites they call and called it just "Pulse" most time, only rarely "Pulse Night Club", "Pulse Orlando", "Orlando Gay Nightclub" and other, what can likely be for SEO reasons. (Is the Oshawa Pulse anywhere near relevant?) --SI00:53, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - A natural disambiguation is normally better than parenthetical one. Also, the proposed title is used by articles, including recent ones, even when the owner might not use the name often. I found last year'sarticle. I also found the2009 book anda traveler's book, which calls it "Pulse" with "pulseorlando.com". Other sources:2015,2006,2012,2015 travel guide. Well, 4-3 "Pulse" technically wins. However, per WP:NATURAL, we can use natural disambiguation, even when the name isnot as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title.George Ho (talk)02:35, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support forPulse (Orlando nightclub) andComment — There is researchbelow, where it was found out, that there have been two previous shooting incidents in different nightclubs also namedPulse. It's a good thing, that thePulse Orlando redirect already exists. The current article has a{{Distinguish2}} tag on it to make sure that the public does not confuse this incident with shooting incidents in those other establishments namedPulse. It seems, that this nightclub's general branding is onlyPulse, but the website is PulseOrlando.com, and twitter and facebook handles are also 'pulseorlando'. Would the company name of the establishment give any suggestions? -Mardus/talk04:07, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Re "Can I then rename [[#Rename.3F|that section]]?" – You can, but I would suggest instead just starting a new section for the new requested move. --Bob K31416 (talk)13:22, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose to that, too. None of the other "Pulse" clubs are anywhere near meeting thenotability needed. If anyone had well-sourced prooffor another Pulse's notability,then we could see... (please donot discuss other venues/events notability here.) --SI06:46, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It would be helpful in considering your point if you could give a link to a guideline or policy on naming articles, along with the relevant excerpt, that supports point. Thanks. --Bob K31416 (talk)13:22, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I just now looked at the policyWP:NATURALDIS and you may be correct, although the explicit consideration appears to be whether or not a similarly named Wikipedia article exists, which is somewhat equivalent to whether or not there are other similarly named topics that are sufficiently notable. See the Queen example of the first paragraph ofWP:NATURALDIS which advises use of "Queen (band)" over "Queen (rock band). I would add to that example that if there was an obscure marching band called "Queen" that specialized in songs related to the monarchy, and it didn't have a Wikipedia article, there wouldn't be just cause for using "Queen (rock band)". --Bob K31416 (talk)14:04, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Proposed title does not even begin to identify the subject . Outside the US, even at the moment, this is often being referred to as 'Florida nightclub', Orlando being not immediately recognisable to non-US, and 'Pulse' being wholly meaningless.Pulse (Orlando nightclub), might make more sense. Naming is meant to identify the subject, not simply DAB from similar names.Pincrete (talk)19:01, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of arequested move.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in amove review. No further edits should be made to this section.
I've added a bit of info fromWaPo, but only from the lead paragraphs. I haven't mined the end paragraphs that reboot talking about the club before the shooting. --Zanimum (talk)15:58, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Any way, without getting access to Newspapers.com, to find out what 1912 S. Orange Avenue was before Pulse? Just a random thought. I haven't seen mention whether they built it or renovated it. --Zanimum (talk)16:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thisnewspaper from 1936 says that 1912 S. Orange Avenue was home to the Sarasota Herald Company, an daily newspaper published every day except for Saturday. I think it's something we could mention briefly in this article, as there isn't enough about SHC to warrant it's own article. --Cupoftea155 (talk)19:15, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I agree this article should be deleted. There is no value in discussing what the club was all about. The article on the June 2016 shooting covers everything of interest. I suppose it could mention a bit about what the club was all about, in a couple of sentences.Peter K Burian (talk)22:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is a really interesting statement - the source doesn't explain much more, though I see some lines later down I could add something possibly related from. If the HIV prevention program was effective (also some of the other things listed that I'll add) there's a question for which I'd love to see facts that might address it:Has Pulse saved more lives by this work with community organizations than were taken during the shooting?Wnt (talk)10:48, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The item about the 2013 shooting was put in byAuric and here's the diff[3] . And here's the citation.
"Article".News-Press. Fort Myers. May 27, 2013. p. B2 – via Newspapers.com.{{cite news}}:Unknown parameter|subscription= ignored (|url-access= suggested) (help)
It looks like the article title wasn't filled in and there only appears "Article" as the title. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. So I tried to get more info on the article at the newspaper's website by searching its archives[4]. I first used the keywordshooting and I didn't find anything about the cited article. Then I did a search using the keywordPulse without success. So far it looks like the cited article about the 2013 shooting may not exist. MaybeAuric, the editor who contributed the item, could clarify. --Bob K31416 (talk)20:11, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You can request that someone fromWP:Library obtain a copy. They've privileged access to some News print archives. It is possible this publication is accessible to them. (I tried to get at B2 page but they're protected by randomly generated keys inquery string) If it is sourced and not a BLP vio is possible to leave entry intact and tag with{{vs}} -- dsprc[talk]03:25, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
ThanksAuric. I was able to use two key phrases from your article excerpt to successfully google for more info. The search parameters were the following two phrases, including the quotation marks: "The shooter was killed by other officers." "Since the May 9 shooting, Pulse" . Using this I got two hits. One hit was the May 27, 2013 article that is behind a paywall. The other hit appears to be the relevant page of the article and is not behind a firewall. Here's the link for it:http://santinifloral.com/sw-florida-news/ft-myers-and-ft-myers-beach/3625-bar-crowd-downtown-presents-enforcement-challenges-danger-to-fort-myers-officers . As you can see at that link, the shooting did not take place at the Orlando Pulse, but rather outside the now defunct Ft. Myers Pulse. Here's an excerpt.
"Five officers were shot at as they tried to break up a fight. None were injured. It’s not the first time officers have been shot at around closing time in downtown Fort Myers. Officer Andrew Widman was shot and killed in July 2008 trying to break up a domestic dispute after the bars closed.
The shooter was killed by other officers.
Since the May 9 shooting, Pulse Nightclub is no more. Though the incident did not take place inside, the fight that spilled onto Hendry Street was triggered by people standing in front of it."
I came to that same finding.The current snapshot of the original URL at Google Web Cache is able to display the source's OCR version of the text, wherein passages of different articles are on top of one another. The excerpt shown at Google Search also allowed me to find the partial article from Santini Floral, which was already referenced above.
If I had to choose between disambiguation in the form ofPulse Orlando vs. "Not to be confused with the defunct Pulse nightclub in Fort Myers, Florida, outside of which a shooting happened on 9 May 2013;[1] and the Pulse nightclub in New Haven, Connecticut, outside of which a shooting occurred on 14 September 2013.[2]."... I'd pick the former. ---Another Believer(Talk)02:47, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's rather important to point out both without necessarily linking to them (which is why I used{{Distinguish2}} instead of plain{{Distinguish}}), because it would greatly reduce confusion by the public, much of which has happened already. The shooting at Fort Myers has also been used as an argument to keep the year in2016 Orlando nightclub shooting. I nevertheless support keeping the year there, because it would still differentiate from previous shooting incidents in or near other nightclubs namedPulse. -Mardus/talk03:00, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
btw, I likePulse Orlando, as this is the name used by the affected nightclub inits website URL, but not in its general branding. So I think this article is a good candidate for renaming. I'd like to see more substantiated arguments for renaming, but I wouldn't object, if a rename happened. -Mardus/talk03:06, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, the current url is pulseorlandoclub.com, most likely because pulse.com, pulseclub.com, pulsenightclub.com, pulseorlando.com, ... are occupied by others. You cannot seriously judge the name by their web address - then we would need to move it topulseorlandoclub,PulseOrlando orpulseorlandoclub.com?! PS: the distinguish-templates are only for use if there is another article target in Wikipedia that could be confused, pls seeWP:HAT guidelines, thx. --SI07:04, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding that out. I'm more used to searching older newspapers, where each article was syndicated, appearing nationwide in a variety of newspapers. And thanks for the link about the Extra Supscription.--Aurictalk18:20, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
References
^"Article".News-Press. Fort Myers. May 27, 2013. p. B2 – via Newspapers.com.{{cite news}}:Unknown parameter|subscription= ignored (|url-access= suggested) (help)
The consensus is against including disambiguation for unrelated 2013 shootings in or near other venues named "Pulse" because those unrelated shootings neither have their own articles nor are discussed in other articles. If articles or sections in other articles are written to discuss the unrelated 2013 shootings, then this can be revisited.Cunard (talk) 04:02, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Because people have actually confused unrelated 2013 shootings in or near other venues namedPulse, I first included a disambiguation hatnote that was removedhere, and then included a disambiguation para in a lede, which was alsoremoved, and which I duly reverted. The two 2013 events in other Pulses have been topical elsewhere in this Talk, and have become reason to potentially rename this article.
No. I've never seen disambiguation in the form of a hatnote that didnot link to another Wikipedia article. Nor have I seen disambiguation in the form of prose. This article should remain specifically about the Orlando shooting. If there is so much confusion that disambiguation is required, then we need to rename the article. ---Another Believer(Talk)14:36, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[EC] Mardus, you have now revertedAnother Believer two times12 in this DAB issue, andthis could also be seen as rv of my policy-citing edit. Pls seeWP:3RR for not risking a block.
I could argue, that Another Believertwiceremoved what I inserted, and I reverted these removals on two relatively different occasions (i.e. not exactly the same text in the same location). The article about the Orlando shooting isin its own place. I do believe, that there can be and has been enough confusion, since for not a short time, the Fort MyersPulse shooting was referred to in this articleuntil this edit, as if that 2013 shooting had taken place inPulse Orlando. I've seen that mistaken knowledge transpire on twitter. Hence my insistence on disambiguation.
For the record:[5][6] So we need to keep on confusing the readers, because we have been confusing them for three days - although no media outlet jumped at our hoax...? --SI19:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My point with the passages containing disambiguation was, that this current event should not be confused with the two unrelated incidents in 2013. I did not know the two edits you featured. But therearemore and more. It appears, that the earliest edit referring to the unrelated shooting was added byUser:Aurichere, and then persisted for several days without much verification. -Mardus/talk21:35, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WhatAnother Believer says. Hatnotes are to link to other articles; the text itself, the lead, should take away any possible confusion. If those articles are written, that's another matter. And adding it to the lead is not helpful either--for now, it's nothing more than a coincidence that those places were also called Pulse.Drmies (talk)14:40, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No. Those other shootings were obscure events and the only effect of mentioning them in this article is to artificially make them more prominent. Also, to mention those shootings in this article is a violation of Wikipedia policyWP:NOR which states in the opening paragraph, "To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented." That means that a reliable, published source must relate those shootings to the Orlando shooting before that information can be included in this article. --Bob K31416 (talk)15:04, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(solicited by feedback bot)No: as there is no article for the other locations - should they get an article, or even a section or worthwhile anchor in an article - then revisit. —xaosfluxTalk04:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've posted a "photo requested" template up there at the top of this talkpage. The present photo is10 years old, the building now has a completely different appearance.Shearonink (talk)20:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The article seems to be past tense. It does indicate that Pulse is closed, but not that it isn't still there, or otherwise renamed. Should it be present tense?Gah4 (talk)08:04, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
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