I thought Copernicus was born in Poland, is this disputed? Because there seems to be some resistance against calling him a Polish astronomer.166.196.79.1 (talk)23:11, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply] - See above, read the archives.Acroterion(talk)23:13, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia does a good job of stating that the family from fathers side originated in Krakow (Polish capital). Mothers side is actually labeled Polish. I don't understand how father's family wouldn't be Polish if they originate from Polish capital, but I digress. And yet, he's not considered Polish by Wikipedia standards. Somehow Columbus is considered Italian, a ethnicity/nationality that did not exist for another 400 years. Wikipedia consistency is amazing.2600:1702:7530:510F:4121:37B5:41FC:7638 (talk)12:16, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- You're making incorrect assumptions by viewing medieval and early modern identities through a modern-day lens. Nationalities and ethnicities do not only exist when a country is (fully) united or when there's modern-day citizenship. For example,Dante Alighieri called himself Italian, andMartin Luther said "Germany, my home country". Regarding Copernicus, sources have differed about his nationality, but he actually used to be viewed (until the 20th century) by most encyclopedias as a "German scientist".Eem dik doun in toene (talk)06:04, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Poland was partitioned in late 18th century. Prussia and later the Nazi government attempted to erase Polish culture/people. So I guess you're telling me what is kind of obvious, that Germans claimed a Pole who was born in Poland to a Polish mother and a father who was likely Polish as well, having moved from Polish capital and his family tracing it's roots to Silesia, which while part of HRE during Copernicus's lifetime, was Polish land a hundred years earlier. It's a little surprising his fathers family would relocate from HRE to Polish capital if they were German. Still waiting for someone to explain to me the consistency in Columbus being Italian on Wikipedia, a ethnicity/nationality that did not exist for another 400 years to Copernicus who had a Polish mother, very likely a Polish father, and was born in Poland.2600:1702:7530:510F:4121:37B5:41FC:7638 (talk)23:18, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- How can you read "by most encyclopedias" and assume it is part of "an attempt by Germans to erase Polish culture"? The description "German scientist" in reference to Copernicus has appeared in many British, American, French encyclopedias, and others, not just the German ones. And once again, you’re applying a modern perspective to medieval and early modern identities and contexts. The topic of his nationality has been discussed over and over again here, with facts such as Copernicus's first language being German, and that his parentage included a German father and a Polish mother having been repeated as many times. Unless new evidence is introduced, this discussion is unlikely to progress any further.Eem dik doun in toene (talk)19:10, 15 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- The idea that his fathers family would move from HRE (a region formerly Polish) to Polish capital and not be ethnically Polish is truly silly. Fact is, like Prussians and Nazi's, Germans tried to erase Polish people and culture and that can not be disputed. And most Encyclopedias list him as Polish. Wikipedia is the exception.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)13:12, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- That is your opinion. Please also read better next time, as I already explained to you what's the deal with the encyclopedias. You can read in Copernicus's Wiki article the following sentence, which I alluded to: "Andrzej Wojtkowski [pl] noted that most of the 19th and 20th century encyclopedias, particularly the English-language sources, described Copernicus as a "German scientist".Eem dik doun in toene (talk)14:35, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- You mean the ones when Poland was partitioned and didn't exist? Because the modern English ones list him as Polish. This is pointless. Wikipedia is the exception, most list him as Polish.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)14:48, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- That Poland was partitioned from the 18th century until 1918 had obviously no effect on the nationality of (historial) persons. For example, Chopin is described as Polish in the1911 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica.Eem dik doun in toene (talk)15:41, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Whataboutism. The fact it doesn't with Chopin does not mean it did not happen with Copernicus, who again, was born in Poland, had a Polish mother, and a father who came from Krakow, Polish capital and who's great grand parents came from Silesia which during their lifetime would have been part of Poland. Weird for a German family to move out of HRE to Polish capital. Like I said, this is silly, Wikipedia is the exception, the other major encyclopedias list him as Polish. Prussians (later Germans) and Nazis also considered him German. And somehow Columbus is Italian, a Nationality/Ethnicity that didn't exist for another 400 years. Consistency is amazing (sarcasm).2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)18:48, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- It has got nothing to do with 'whataboutism' as Chopin's entry simply explains that your assumption was wrong (it's also ironic that you ended your comment with some 'whataboutisms'). You repeat your subjective opinions, gut feelings and assumptions over and over again, but it doesn't mean it's correct. This is getting all too tiresome, so it's time toWP:DROPTHESTICK and move on...Eem dik doun in toene (talk)20:26, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- It is a whataboutism. Fun fact, Chopin grew up in a area controlled by Russians not Prussians. So if you don't want to think it's whataboutism, lets say that Prussians wanted to erase Polish people/culture more than the Russians. You're literally not in a winning situation. Columbus should not be labeled Italian, a ethnicity/nationality that didn't exist for another 400 years. By every definition we have of ethnicity, if your parent is of that ethnicity, you're part of it. It's why every other encyclopedia lists him as Polish.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)01:04, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- The relevant policy isWP:ETHNICITY: "Copernicus's nationality is disputed, so it is omitted." That's because allegiance, ethnicity and other factors may differ. If you disagree, you need to get the policy changed. BTW, at one time most people considered him to be German, not just Nazis.TFD (talk)01:01, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- That's not true and you have no way of proving that.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)01:05, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Also how can Columbus be Italian on Wikipedia when the nationality did not exist for another 400 years. There was never an Italian kingdom in the 15th century.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)01:11, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Joan's of Arc, born in either Burgundy or England. Somehow listed as French. Wikipedia is very inconsistent.2600:1702:7530:510F:687E:CE00:C71D:3FC5 (talk)01:14, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
|
level-3 vital article is ratedB-class on Wikipedia'scontent assessment scale.
.jpg)
.svg)
.jpg)
