Organization of page
[edit]I propose we organize the page to match the style atList of feminists. Does that sound good?Smmurphy(Talk)14:36, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I've hone ahead and switched the layout, merging Muslim feminists from that list and what was here already.Smmurphy(Talk)16:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your work, I'll proceed with adding references and all.JahlilMA (talk)18:46, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is it important to make a decision about the distinction between Muslim feminists and female Muslim leaders/artists/mystics/etc? For instance, the page forRabia of Basra has a section on her influence on feminism, whileAisha (wife of Muhammad) doesn't really. But it would definitely be possible to find citations explaining why both of these are influential to modern feminism. Less clear are other pre-contemporary figures in categories such asCategory:Female Sufi mystics orCategory:Arabic-language women poets/Medieval Arabic female poets who may be inspirations to feminists and who might today be considered or consider themselves feminists, but who are not written about with regards to their work furthering "feminist consciousness". For now, I'll add links to these categories/lists.Smmurphy(Talk)16:47, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I think there's one distinction between pre-contemporary female Muslim leading figures and modern day Muslim feminists, which is the influence offeminism as a philosophy culminated within the Western discourse since the 19th century. In that regard I think it's better to clarify the distinction on the article as well. Maybe we can name the former differently and create a separate section like "Pre-contemporary Muslims who addressed gender issues" or "Muslimprotofeminists" but I don't know the latter term is still valid. Under this title, possibly we may also include certain male scholars who devoted his works for gender issues and left significant influences.JahlilMA (talk)19:22, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I think in general that sounds good. If individuals from before 1800 are added to this list, careful referencing is a good idea (unfortunately, I was sloppy with referencing when I reformatted). If there is a reliable source about "Pre-contemporary Muslims who addressed gender issues" or "Muslim protofeminists", I'd love to look at it, and I think it could be appropriate to add to this list from those sources. And to extend your suggestion a bit, I think merely influencing feminism doesn't automatically make a figure an appropriate addition to this list.Smmurphy(Talk)20:39, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Understood, I'll try to look for recent publications regarding Islam and feminism, and see if there are any mentions regarding pre-contemporary Muslims. Yes, I wasn't completely sure about including persons likeAl-Sakhawi, but if its not appropriate, then we can exclude them.
- I have one question though, should we include atheists/ex-Muslims here in the list, likeNawal el Saadawi,Ayaan Hirsi Ali andTaslima Nasrin? Because initially, I was listing persons based on two criteria; 1. feminist, or engaging toward gender equity for female 2. Muslim. Under these criteria, I thought I can include the figures likeMeena Keshwar Kamal orMalala Yousefzai, who in my understanding, aren't necessarily proponents ofIslamic feminism, i.e., a feminist discourse and practice articulated within an Islamic paradigm, but more of "feminists who happened to be Muslims" (this understanding could be wrong on individual cases). Under these criteria, non-Muslims are not to be included. I was worrying if we limit the scope onIslamic feminism, a substantial number of the list has to be removed. Any thoughts on this?JahlilMA (talk)11:52, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Excellent point. I think it only makes sense to limit this page to feminists who profess the Islamic faith, as that seems to be the purpose of the page. After all, we cannot simply include any feminist who has an opinion about Islam on this page. I will go ahead and remove the names which you have mentioned if you see any more then please make the necessary edits! (talk)
- Thanks a lot :)JahlilMA (talk)16:39, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think we should impose what being a Muslim feminist means. el Saadawi writes about it (many places, for exampleEl Saadawi, Nawal. "A Postmodern Christian-Muslim Feminist." Journal of Middle East Women's Studies 6, no. 3 (2010): 183-187.), basically saying that "Muslim" as an adjective or an identity that is used for a person cannot possibly be pure but is always mixed with other things. I don't know if El Saadawi would today call herself a "Muslim" or a "Muslim feminist", but she would probably resist an attempt to box her in, and so on. Certainly she is described in many sources, including sources professing themselves to be Muslim, as a Muslim feminist. Nasrin is less often described as a "Muslim feminist" and Ali even less so, largely because they are both more strongly associated with atheism or opposition to aspects of Islam. My feeling is that el Saadawi should definitely be included, maybe Nasrin, and probably not Ali.Smmurphy(Talk)17:35, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
