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At least needs some examples...Towsonu200322:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
expanding enic, if you are attempting to measure something universally, then tests for different ethnicities would have to be customized for those ethnicities, and you would to have label "White" as an ethnicity, which blows away the whole feminist-created multicultural reaction to white male dominance along with white male dominance, but sobeit--John Bessa (talk)22:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"An "etic" account is a description of a behavior in terms familiar to the observer." isn't in accordance with "making universal claims will rely on etic accounts." --> if the scientist rely on his/her own observations ("etic" according to the first sentence), s/he cannot make universal claims because he'll be acting on imposed etic (researcher imposing own perspective / emic on the subject)Towsonu200323:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I removed this
because it is unclear and can only confuse the reader. Assuming Nattiez is correct in his definition of emic, the question is, how do we know what the emic view is? In the social sciences, it is through the research of an investigator, using particular methodological tools. Thus, his definition of etic does not serve to distinguish etic from emic. In fact, both emic and etic together comprise methodological tools Nattiez refers to but only in relation to etic.Slrubenstein |Talk15:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"whether the phones /b/ and /v/ make a contrast in meaning in a minimal pair in the language" -Quote from the article.
Just thought to mention this.. I believe everybody knows what /b/ and /v/ refer to?
I'm not sure if this is the case in anthropology, but the linguistic usage of the concepts of emic and etic are the opposite of that usage described on this page. Emic refers to the abstract entity. A phoneme can never be perceived. Phones are the perceived articulations of phonemes. I'm not sure then, why etics would be used to establish universal comparisons, since anything etic in relation to human activity would, by analogy to linguistics, be a local articulation of a more general concept, like burial of the dead or seasonal festivals. The emic concepts should be the ones used for cross-cultural comparison.—Precedingunsigned comment added byJesseBeach (talk •contribs)03:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
they're not opposite, and they don't refer, in anthropology, to abstraction. I hope I improved enough to make it clear what they do mean. Ultimately, it's about root words (etic and emic). You're right that the usage doesn't exactly parallel that in linguistics (very confusing). Also, there were definitely misunderstandings (by Pike) in the borrowing - I'll go edit further to make that clear.--Levalley (talk)04:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)LeValley[reply]
I removed this fur further consideration:
What is "Cultural psychology?" How do we know this view is significant? Can we have a source? Why is the definition so completely different from Pike?Slrubenstein |Talk13:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can we have sources for this idiosyncratic use of the terms? Evidence that this is widespread and not just one person's view?Slrubenstein |Talk21:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here's one: “... etic contructs – those that exist in identical or near identical form accross a range of cultures – and emic constructs that are limited to one culture” (Translçating questionnaires and other reseasrch instruments, Behling and Law, Sage: 2000, p.3)
Came into cross-cultural psychology via Berry - don't have that ref, but is discussed in Brislin, Lonner and Thorndike, "Cross-cultural research methods", John Wiley: 1973, p.24-5— Precedingunsigned comment added by177.5.129.89 (talk)12:34, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the post that was present was part of a consumer behavior marketing class final (which by the way got 100/100). most references were from the7th edition text of Consumer Behavior (buying, having, and being) by Solomon published by Pearson - Pretince Hall[Amazon Link]Irahim (talk)06:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will find time and do a rewrite, thank you for bringing this to my attention.Irahim (talk)20:26, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wikifying and making sure citations are consistent, eliminating any red links, etc. I'm trying.--Levalley (talk)04:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)LeValley[reply]
Decided to break these terms, to show you the general notions on which I based on my edits. I do not think all these citations are needed in the article to support the simple changes I made, but here are some lecture notes/contemporary statements about the distinction (note that I didn't include phonetic/phonemic references, as it is generally understood that while Pike borrowed the terms from linguistics, he didn't keep to traditional linguistic usage, although attempts have been made to reconcile him and terms with linguistic use). Also note that since Pike coined the terms, they have acquired different usage than what he originally intended. My view on the terms is that they should be discussed on Wikipedia as they are actually used in anthropology today:
http://www.sil.org/klp/karlintv.htm (especially the second half, where it discusses how current usage branches from Pike's usage)
http://www2.eou.edu/~kdahl/emicdef.html (some has randomly lifted a definition from a cultural anthropology textbook - but note that this is a typical basic attempt at defining these words - you can find dozens and dozens of similar entries in people's anthropology pages, lecture notes, etc.)
http://www.bookrags.com/tandf/etic-vs-emic-analysis-tf/ (another online encyclopedia's attempt)
Prof. James Lett has surveyed the conflicting literature on the terms and come up with these statements on general usage:
I added the bolding. The article can be found here:http://faculty.ircc.edu/faculty/jlett/Article%20on%20Emics%20and%20Etics.htm
From a page on multicultural counseling, we have:
Sue & Sue refers to a book called "Counseling the Culturally Diverse."
From Hahn, Christina. "Clear-Cut Concepts vs. Methodological Ritual: Etic and Emic Revisited" Paper presented at the annual meeting of the International Communication Association, Dresden International Congress Centre, Dresden, Germany, Jun 16, 2006.
The author notes that there has been confusion, especially when there are many different emic views and many different etic views. She offers the same simplification/clarification as Prof. Lett.
Thomas R. Lindlof in Blackwell's, says: "The terms also refer to distinctive research strategies, particularly in the context of ethnographic fieldwork (→ Field Research). " (http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9781405131995_chunk_g978140513199510_ss18-1) I don't know if Blackwell's is considered an appropriate reference on Wikipedia, but it is widely available. Lindlof goes on to say (solving the problem of varying emic accounts):
The fact that there are varying emic OR etic accounts is today expected, and how to deal with them remains a topic of discussion - but that doesn't change the basic contemporary usage of those terms.
Lindlof's article is the International Encyclopedia of Communication, it was written in 2008.
Feel free to delete these comments from your talk page - I am keeping a copy on mine, and will put them on the relevant article pages when I get a chance.Levalley (talk)19:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think SLRubenstein has a lot of familiarity with these two concepts. At any rate, to any editors wishing to work on this article, I suggest you read all of the above.Levalley (talk)23:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This line, "There have been some famous mishaps when it comes to the etic approach, the most notable one being Euro Disney, which tried to imitate its American counterparts and failed," needs a citation. It is unclear how Disneyland Paris is meant to represent a failure of the Etic model. Is it meant to represent it as a cultural failure, a financial one, both? Who considers it a failure and why? How broadly is this view represented?
I post on the Disney forums so I know this example fairly well, which is why this line gives me pause. There are quite a few ways to judge the success or failure of Disneyland Paris, so anything referring to it needs to have some sort of reference to back up the conclusion.—Precedingunsigned comment added by75.7.12.32 (talk)18:29, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This sentence "The origin of the terms in linguistics, therefore, has come full circle with talk of a "syntax" of human culture, not dissimilar to Chomskyian views on syntax.[ref]" is oddly cited. The citation is to one of the works by Chomsky on syntax in language. He is not the one who made the claim that grammar is similar to human culture (at least not in the book cited). The reference should be to whoever is making this claim now.lxowle (talk)06:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I just removed this section because it violates some of our core policies, namelyWP:V andWP:NOR. There was no page number for the Abu Lughod citation, and it is not at all clear that she wrote anything about "emic" and "etic." The rest of the passage was just editorialisng - what we ought to do. That is not what encyclopedia articles are for.Slrubenstein |Talk22:39, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It would be nice to have pronunciations given, as well as derivations, for these two words. One very fertile ground in which to hunt for examples of the difference between emic and etic might be wikipedia itself. How does "reality" look to those who have "bought into" wikipedia culture, versus more "traditional" experts, or those who know reality primarily from a vocation?66.212.78.220 (talk)22:22, 24 May 2010 (UTC)Didaskalosmrm[reply]
The article states that the distinction is about the source of data, but seehttp://faculty.ircc.cc.fl.us/faculty/jlett/Article%20on%20Emics%20and%20Etics.htm by James Lett for a discussion that explicitly rejects this view and argues it an epistemological distinction.
I quote from there:
"Despite that diversity and disagreement, it is possible to suggest a precise and practical set of definitions by focusing on emics and etics as epistemological concepts. From that perspective, the terms “emic” and “etic” should be seen as adjectives modifying the implicit noun “knowledge.” Accordingly, the distinction between emics and etics has everything to do with the nature of the knowledge that is claimed and nothing to do with the source of that knowledge (i.e., the manner by which it was obtained)."
"Emic constructs are accounts, descriptions, and analyses expressed in terms of the conceptual schemes and categories that are regarded as meaningful and appropriate by the members of the culture under study. Am emic construct is correctly termed “emic” if and only if it is in accord with the perceptions and understandings deemed appropriate by the insider’s culture. The validation of emic knowledge thus be- comes a matter of consensus--namely, the consensus of native informants, who must agree that the construct matches the shared perceptions that are characteristic of their culture. Note that the particular research technique used in acquiring anthropological knowledge has nothing to do with the nature of that knowledge. Emic knowledge can be obtained either through elicitation or through observation, because it is sometimes possible that objective ob- servers can infer native perceptions."
"Etic constructs are accounts, descriptions, and analyses expressed in terms of the conceptual schemes and categories that are regarded as meaningful and appropriate by the community of scientific observers. An etic construct is correctly termed “etic” if and only if it is in accord with the epistemological principles deemed appropriate by science (i.e., etic constructs must be precise, logical, comprehensive, replicable, falsifiable, and observer independent). The validation of etic knowledge thus becomes a matter of logical and empirical analysis--in particular, the logical analysis of whether the construct meets the standards of falsifiability, comprehensiveness, and logical consistency, and then the empirical analysis of whether or not the concept has been falsified and/or replicated. Again, the particular research technique that is used in the acquisition of anthropological knowledge has no bearing on the nature of that knowledge. Etic knowledge may be obtained at times through elicitation as well as observation, because it is entirely possible that native informants could possess scientifically valid knowledge."
Dan Suthers (talk)12:32, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the emic/etic dichotomy is based on (or is related to) the root dichotomy of phonetic/phonemic, then the connection to those terms ought to be explained. It is not made clear at all by the current article. Even something brief would raise the quality of the article.
Lindsay and Kavi's To Do List:
-Expand on definitions and give examples → use textbook as a citation -Research two different studies each for emic and etic examples (using PsychINFO database; the four studies will all serve as more citations for the article) → the studies will serve as guidelines to understand and conceptualize emic and etic studies -Keep “History” category; do more research to see if there is any more information to add -Add “Studies” heading; subheadings of “Emic” and “Etic” -Add a “Conclusion” heading to summarize our research/findings and close out the article -Add a “Connections to Personality Theory” heading to connect emic and etic studies back to our class -Link our article to more emic and etic research articles to provide even more information to our readers -Add a “Real World Usage” heading to connect to other related articles → this will include the necessary secondary sources— Precedingunsigned comment added byLindsayhogan15 (talk •contribs)13:58, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These are all great suggestions. I like your edits to the existing sections and inclusion of new applications and personality sections. I look forward to what you develop! -EM— Precedingunsigned comment added byTestaccountpy242 (talk •contribs)15:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the feedback! -KB— Precedingunsigned comment added byBansalk (talk •contribs)19:38, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did Margaret Mead use the terms "emic" and "etic", or has the section about her been an interpretation of her work, applying emic/etic?Pete unseth (talk)01:51, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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You can't cite a source like that without including the full bibliographical information.--98.111.164.239 (talk)19:48, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]