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On 13 August 2024, it was proposed that this article bemoved fromBlack Tortoise toBlack Turtle-Snake. The result ofthe discussion wasmoved.

I fixed two errors: 1)Genbu is of Water, not of earth & stone & 2)Seiryu is of wood (& sometimes wind),not water & wind. - Harahu

I second that. But for some reason, Harahu, the errors were still there. I have made the fixes.Uly12:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Does this ancient Chinese legend of female tortoises (a proxy for "northern women," perhaps?) mating with male snakes ("eastern men"?) have something to do with the Chinese idiomatic expression, "dai lü mao" (literally, "to wear a green hat," but actually connoting a man's being cuckolded by his wife)? The color green/blue is a symbol for the eastern direction in Chinese cosmology.

Northern women is quite a offensive modern usage and I'm sure it has nothing to do with the legendary Xian Wu. Northern women mostly applied by Southern Chinese, like Cantonese, specially Hong Kong man for having extramartial affair withmainland woman. --Sameboat - 同舟05:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This question has to be the silliest question on wikipedia. Karolus 2008/7/14—Precedingunsigned comment added by210.184.14.11 (talk)11:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why? He's completely correct about the 'green hat' legend. — LlywelynII23:34, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be curious to know how the Black Tortoise came to be called the mysterious/obscure/occult (玄) warrior (武) when the names of all the other directions pretty directly translate to a color and an animal. Why is it not 黒亀 or something to that effect? How does a tortoise + a snake = a warrior?

Also, the article asserts that the word for tortoise was taboo, but doesn't explain why, or in what context. What's the origin or meaning or reasoning behind this?LordAmeth (talk)22:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In a fictional story based on chinese mythology, written by an australian, the taboo behind tortoise is that tortoises are born from eggs, and so have no mother or father, and is similar to the western taboo of the word Bastard. Again, thats from fiction so I am not sure of the legitimacy.WookMuff (talk)08:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In two series by australian authorKylie Chan, Xuan Wu is a major character and love interest of the protagonist. Is it worth adding a popular culture section?WookMuff (talk)08:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a Wikipedia article titled "black turtle." It actually redirects to "green sea turtle," but still, "black turtle" exists and it may cause confusion.BW95 (talk)17:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, but that redirect should be. — LlywelynII23:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that this thing is actually a turtle and is translated as suchat least as often as "tortoise", is there some very good reason we're insisting on the usage "tortoise"? (Hint: no, there's not.)

Let's keep both in the lead, even if we keep the wrong one in the running text and namespace for historical reasons and to keep the green sea turtle dabbed. — LlywelynII23:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If it's a turtle and not a tortoise, why not change the title from "Tortoise" to "Turtle" (especially as this issue was brought up more than 6 years ago)?173.88.246.138 (talk)03:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know many of our sources on the topic are similar messes of random list bric-a-brac but the article lead could do a much better job simply clearly saying the Black Whatever of the North was simply a collection of all the principle asterisms inChinese astrology andastronomy in the northern quadrant of the sky. See particularly the clear treatment and illustrations (p. 329) in the treatment of China in

• Kelley, David H.; et al. (2005),Exploring Ancient Skies: An Encyclopedic Survey of Archaeoastronomy, New York: Springer Science+Business Media.

It also clarifies why there are only four 'direction guardians' despite Chinese culture having had five directions since remote antiquity. — LlywelynII15:33, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's all well and good a single scholar has an idea that one name might derive from a particular local dialect he's familiar with but... uh... we need a lot more than one guy doing that to put it directly into the lead's second paragraph. This should be in a subsection, footnote, or holding cell til there's moreWP:RS showing it's a common idea that doesn't fall underWP:FRINGE orWP:UNDUE. — LlywelynII15:33, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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