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Greetings, This biography forNikolaos Gioulekas has zero references, and needs at least one incoming link to remove the Orphan tag. Asking for help here as article states that Gioulekas was acaptain in the Greek War of Independence of 1821. Regards,JoeNMLC (talk)14:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Piccco there[1] should be a mention of Albanian revolutionaries just like Italian, Serbian and Romanian revolutionaries are mentioned. Just like in other articles[2][3][4] there is a mention of Greek revolutionaries (as ethnicity) in wars not related directly to Greece. Denying this while on the same article other nations (way lesser in numbers, importance and impact) are mentioned makes it POV biased andWP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT.RoyalHeritageAlb (talk)14:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. The Serbian and Romanian revolutionaries' ultimate goal was the creation of independent Serbia and Romania. This was definitely not the case of the Souliotes, they fought for an independent Greece, not an independent Albania. Their ethnic origins are completely beyond the scope of the infobox. Absolutely no way.Khirurg (talk)15:06, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello RoyalHeritageAlb, I can see why at first this can appear a bit tricky. Besides theBritish, theRussians etc. who came as soldiers of their own empires, the revolutionaries you mentioned are listed separately not on the basis of enthicity, but as groups who belonged or were affiliated to distinct, already existing polities or organizations, whose primary interests were different from the Greek revolution, and came knowingly as foreigners to assist the defeat of the Ottomans. The Serbians are listed as representatives of theprincipality of Serbia, the Romanians came from theprincipalities of Moldavia andWallachia, and the Italians belonged to the Italian revolutionary society of theCarbonari. Now that I see it, I do believe that the links should change to those articles, rather than the articles of the respective ethnicities, for more accuracy.Piccco (talk)15:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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@Demetrios1993 I have started this discussion primarily to determine consensus on the change you have made.
Regarding your first interpretation, Navarino was part of the Greek rebellion. The 1827 Battle of Navarino was the transformation of the external support that had existed from the beginning into a physical military naval force. Regarding your second interpretation, there is information that the decisions taken at the Congress of Vienna in 1815, and the complete fall of Napoleon in 1814, indicated that monarchist states in Europe, in their decisions and measures against nationalist movements, would suppress any rebellion within themselves, but would support it if a rebellion broke out within the Ottoman Empire. This is evidenced by their policy of expelling the Ottomans from the Balkans, which we call theEastern Question. They wanted to expel the Turks, the Ottomans, from the Balkans. At the same time, they wanted to conquer and capture the great city of Istanbul, a city that held a significant position for Orthodox Christians. The Russians supported this with their policy of access to warm seas. If the Greek revolt was solely a Greek victory, why did the Russians invade Edirne in the 1828-1829 Russo-Turkish War and liberate Greece with the Treaty of Edirne? These are not entirely independent wars. For example, World War II was a victory for the Allies, not the British.BEFOR01 (talk)14:32, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BEFOR01: I didn't make a change; I reverted the one you made. TheBattle of Navarino (1827) was one of many battles fought during the Greek War of Independence from 1821 to 1829. It involved allied forces from Britain, France, and Russia on one side and the Ottomans on the other. Greek forces played no part in it. That battle has its own page, and the "Allied victory" result it shows is justified and aligns with what the article describes. However, this is a different page focused on the larger conflict of the Greek Revolution, where the Greeks and Ottomans were the main combatants, supported by various other groups.
Moreover, there was no decision by the European powers at theCongress of Vienna (1814–1815) to back rebellions in the Ottoman Empire; that's your own original research. TheEastern question was a complex issue that dealt with the diplomatic and political challenges caused by the decline of the Ottoman Empire from the late 18th to the early 20th centuries. It involved how the European powers should handle this decline without causing instability in Europe or allowing any one power to become too strong.
Additionally, the Greek War of Independence didn't receive support from the major European powers at the start. In fact, the initial reaction from the conservative powers, especially those at the Congress of Vienna, was either hostile or indifferent. They viewed the uprising as a revolutionary nationalist movement. Klemens von Metternich, the Austrian diplomat who led the Congress of Vienna, strongly opposed the revolution, considering it a threat to European stability. Even Russia, which had religious ties to the Greeks as Orthodox Christians, initially condemned the revolt, fearing it might spark broader unrest.
At theCongress of Verona in 1822, the Greek Revolution was met with significant division and caution from the European powers. As the war progressed and atrocities on both sides came to light, European public opinion began to shift in favor of the Greek cause. Philhellenism grew, famous figures like Lord Byron helped raise awareness and funds, and support shifted from governments initially opposing the revolt to those feeling pressure from their populations and geopolitical interests.
No, "they" didn't want to conquer Istanbul; it was among Russia's plans, but Britain and France consistently opposed that. It's no surprise they sided with the Ottomans to halt Russian expansion during the Crimean War. The Russian invasion of Edirne (Adrianople) during the Russo–Turkish War of 1828–1829 was a strategic move to force the Ottoman Empire to negotiate peace on Russian terms. Yes, theTreaty of Adrianople (1829) required the Ottomans to accept Greek autonomy, which had already been decided in theTreaty of London (1827). However, it also placed Moldavia and Wallachia under Russian protection, recognized Serbian autonomy, and granted Russia territorial and trade advantages in the Black Sea region. Lastly, the Greek War of Independence was a revolutionary nationalist movement, not aworld war, so it can't be compared in scale, scope, or global impact to World War II. In short, I do not agree with your change. –Demetrios1993 (talk)21:32, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note also that even the Western intervention leading to the battle of Navarino as suposed to be aneutral one, and not a plain support of the Greek side - George IV called it an "untoward event"; the Western admirals also discouraged the siege of Chios by the Greeks in 1827 for the same reasons of (at least official) neutrality.--Phso2 (talk)21:41, 14 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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