About this paragraph in the introduction, does this correctly describe the stances of the referenced sources?

Some researchers and transgender people argue for thedeclassification of the condition because they say the diagnosispathologizes gender variance and reinforces the binary model of gender.^[1] However, this declassification could carry implications for healthcare accessibility, as HRT and gender-affirming surgery could be deemed cosmetic by insurance providers, as opposed to medically necessary treatment, thereby affecting coverage.^[2]

Are they really calling for the declassification ofgender dysphoria or the declassification of free self identification? As gender dysphoria has lots of severesymptoms right? So it is unclear to me how anyone can argue that symptoms should be declassified? Is enough context given here? Are they maybe arguing this out of questioning whether the symptoms are caused by the dysphoria or by environmental factors (discrimination)? I can only really think of possible arguments to declassify gender dysphoria that would indeed lead to "implications" stated in the second sentence, that it would deemed cosmetic.

So to wrap up a bit, it is not clear to me what exactly the first sentence here means with "declassification", is it an emotional argument out of activism, or is there some solid logic here? If there is solid logic, I don't see it.Wallby (talk)15:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

This looks like a fair summary of the existing sources, although one is old and the other istertiary so I imagine more nuanced coverage of both stances probably exists.

• From Britannica:

  Critics have argued that GD diagnoses continue a long-standing history of pathologizing oppressed peoples. Some argue that the diagnosis stigmatizes groups that are simply expressing variation, not pathology. Critics suggest that the diagnosis individualizes a broad cultural and social phenomenon and reinforces a binary mode of gender.

• From ThinkProgress:

  On the other hand, insurance companies have been more willing to cover the expenses associated with transition under this language, because treatment for a disorder is considered medically necessary, rather than cosmetic.

Hope this helps. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk)17:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I can't speak for others, but if it helps you conceptualize the "anti-" argument, I offer the following clumsy analogy: I was born with a rare birth mark that spells out "Kick Me". I'm depressed because everyone keeps kicking me. I go to the doctor to get it removed. He says I have kick-me sad-brain disorder. He gives me antidepressants and says not to let it bother me as much when people kick me. I turn to leave. He kicks me. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk)17:34, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

I apologize for my rant months ago. I don't think I was making any sense. I want to try again. Are you saying that some people who identify as another gender don't have any desire to change their phenotype and therefore their gender dysphoria is purely about expression in language (he/her, they/them, clothes)?

I would say that some people who have gender dysphoria choosing transition seems to be able to be not out of "fear of judgement by society", but simply them seeing themselves when looking down or in the mirror, or when sexually active, triggers their gender dysphoria. For those people, as without treatment they have symptoms, gender dysphoria IS a pathology caused by gender incongruence between the brain, and phenotype and reproductive organs. Thus declasification would deny these people's symptoms.Wallby (talk)18:18, 20 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

Or more accurately it would deny the mechanism of their gender dysphoria.Wallby (talk)18:18, 20 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's a significant minority viewpoint, it's not our job to check if it's sensible, just to report that some people think that. For context, this seems to be ananti-psychiatry-adjacent belief.Flounder fillet (talk)19:54, 20 May 2025 (UTC)Reply

The first quote doesn't seem to establish declassification.

It only the seems to claim that the formulation and/or application of the current diagnosis allegedly leads to reductionisticly or even entirely wrongly labelling people with a variation-question with a pathological label (second sentence from first quote), and seems to claim that before mentioned of the current diagnosis seems to lack neutrality/objectivity, specifically failing to detect (binary) gender stereotypes.

So is it then correct that declassification is argued for?Wallby (talk)18:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

With "before mentioned" I meant "the formulation and/or application" again, not sure if there is a more compact/clear way to write that without repeating that entirely.Wallby (talk)18:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@RoxySaunders Also, there is another implication of declassification. The sentence "People with gender dysphoria commonly identify as transgender" says "commonly", thus declassifying would also unavoidably impact people who have gender dysphoria but aren't transgender.Wallby (talk)20:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Which is not addressed in that paragraph..

However, this declassification could carry implications for healthcare accessibility, as HRT and gender-affirming surgery could be deemed cosmetic by insurance providers, as opposed to medically necessary treatment, thereby affecting coverage.

It doesn't even mention what the impact of declassification would be on people with gender dysphoria who aren't transgender. I know from very close experience that is seems to exist, as this page also seems to suggest/confirm.Wallby (talk)20:06, 30 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

"The term replaced the previous diagnostic label of gender identity disorder (GID) in 2013 with the release of the diagnostic manual DSM-5. The condition was renamed to remove the stigma associated with the term disorder."

Above is the 2nd sentence. Unless I am mistaken this is referring specifically to guidance the US. If so it needs to say as much and also say which other countries are using the term.Firestar47 (talk)10:54, 27 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your observationFirestar47! However, the DSM is not only used in the US, but internationally.Lova Falk (talk)11:23, 27 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Even if that is the case the ICD uses the alternate term gender incongruence so surely it is not every country.Firestar47 (talk)12:54, 27 February 2025 (UTC)Reply

Please be bold and add the term that was used in the ICD!Lova Falk (talk)13:31, 27 February 2025 (UTC)Reply