Talk:Cultural Muslims
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Zeeshan, thanks for making this article. We can improve it if you can find some internet links on the topic to put in an exteneral links seciton. or to use to cite things. Its kinda of odd to have an entire article without a single citation. Look forward to working with you in the future :)12.2.239.1514:41, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Zeeshanhasan13:09, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is a case to be made for simply allowing those that practice to define themselves, rather than those that do not. A German Christian is more likely to 'I am German' than I am a Christian. When it religious influence is queried, the response is usually, 'I am a practicing Christian'.
As a secular, rationalist humanist, I would rather not have labels. Labels arise in context, when questioned thus: What nationality, what religion, what sect, are you practicing, etc. Genuine secular-humanists find cultural affinity as claustrophobic as religious affinity.
There are a range of adjectives for those who ascribe to religion in various strengths - practicing, fundamentalist, non-practicing, etc. The concept of 'Cultural Muslim' does not advance does not advance our understanding, it appears to be an attempt to cling onto an identity which is riddled with conceptual problems. A person who is an adherent of Islam is a Muslim. A person who is not an adherent of Islam is not a Muslim. There is no such thing as cultural Islam.
The concept of a non-believer from the perspective of Islam is also at best, unappealing at worse, rabidly racist. The words Kafir and Kuffar are loaded and full of the worse kinds of stigma. Would a describing yourself as a 'Cultural Muslim' allow ex-Muslims to escape such stigma? Would 'Cultural Muslims' challenge the sigma? The most beneficial tensions in society are those of the 'other'. Those that were slaves, serfs, immigrants, etc. They were the ones that experienced racism and exclusion and fought to make the society a great deal more egalitarian.
Allow believers to describe themselves in every diminishing forms of exclusivity but describe yourself with biggest, most inclusive denominator - a human. Wear the Kafir badge with pride!— Precedingunsigned comment added by109.145.225.143 (talk)16:59, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to use the idea of a Cultural Jew as grounds to propose why this article shouldn't exist. This article seems to be reflexive of the fact that there is such a thing as a Cultural Jew. There isn't such a thing as a cultural Muslim. The only reason people consider Cultural Jews to exist is because the Jewish faith dictates anyone with Jewish ancestry through their mother as a Jew and if someone becomes an Athesit they still carry the tag of being a Jew. There is no such law in Islam and to say anyone that does not subscribe to the Islamic Faith is a Muslim of any kind is an abhorrent error in usage of terms.
Is this page another way of saying fake Muslims? Ones perhaps who want a facade of being a Muslim to avoid discrimination in their society? What about children who are not Muslims who's parents are and force them to dress funny for school - so they get picked on every day? Is that perhaps what this article is about? Culterually as in "forced to pretend to be or too young to be able to get the parents not to force you without being beaten along with your mother?"???— Precedingunsigned comment added by58.107.173.131 (talk)13:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Why was Raki changed to şerbet??Greatal38623:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have edited the Kabylia section which previously stated that "Kuffar" is Arabic for "apostates". It is not. The Arabic word "Kuffar" is the plural of "Kafir" which means "disbeliever". An apostate is called "Murtad" in Arabic. In Islamic terminology the "Kafir" is one who has openly rejected Islam. The "Murtad" is atype of "Kafir", but specifically someone who was a practicing and believing Muslim who abandoned Islam.—Precedingunsigned comment added by75.200.208.170 (talk)21:02, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(overlong rant removed; the articledoes not say that Bosnian Muslims are not Muslims, it says that some Bosnians designated as "Muslim" for official purposes may not be active adherents of that faith) <eleland/talkedits>22:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Quote:" In non-Muslim societies, such Muslims may subscribe to, and be vested with, secular identities. The Muslims of Bosnia, descendants of Slavs who converted to Islam under Ottoman rule, are not always noted for attendance at prayer, abstention from alcohol, seclusion of women and other social practices associated with believing Muslims in other parts of the world. They were officially designated as Muslims to distinguish them from (Orthodox) Slavs and (Catholic) Croats under the former Yugoslavian communist regime. The label 'Muslim' indicates their ethnicity and group allegiance, but not necessarily their religious beliefs. In this limited context (which may apply to other Muslim minorities in Europe and Asia), there may be no contradiction between being Muslim and being atheist or agnostic, just as there are Jewish atheists and Jewish agnostics... It should be noted, however, that this secular definition of Muslim (sometimes the terms 'cultural Muslim' or 'nominal Muslim' are used) is very far from being uncontested."
You have no righ to speak about Bosnian muslims in this way!
You have no right to declare Bosnia as non-MUSLIM society.
Bosnian muslims were not Slavs!
You don't know anything about bosnian-herzegovinian people!
You have no right to declare anyone as non believer!
You can't judge belonging and level of true Islamic faith of Bosnians.
Bosnains were brutally tortured because they were members of islamic faith!
You are calling them now "non believers"?
You have no right to measure the level of their faith and their religious beliefs.
You have no right to compare them to other 'believing Muslims'.
Who are other 'Believing Muslims'?
In other parts of world people "all people" are believers? True followers of Islam?
Why did you delete my post? Did I take your country as an example of Muslims non-believers?
What you do is unislamic!
What do you know about Bosnia? You don't know anything!
signature: how dare you are?—Precedingunsigned comment added by76.209.233.108 (talk)23:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any proof and evidence that what you have stated is correct? No you don't. Do you have any research to back up your statements about Bosnian Nation? No you don't. What does a very short introduction quote proves? Nothing. It's just someone's opinion without any facts, and you used and abused it to define the entire group of people based on their religious belonging from one European country that you have never seen in your life, not to mention experience. You should be banned from doing this page as you have no knowledge on Bosnianherzegovinan nation, and stay away from mentioning my homeland Bosnia propagating your discriminatory ideas of cultural Muslims and measuring and comparing someone's faith.—Precedingunsigned comment added by71.194.34.77 (talk)22:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added a comment in the concept section.
The label 'Muslim' indicates theirethnicity and group allegiance, but not necessarily their religious beliefs.(Their ethnicity is officiallyAlbanian - a wikipedia editor)
I just think it's astonishing that a Muslim scholar is so ignorant in this subject.
--Zslevi (talk)19:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Therefore you can't ethnically be a Muslim, it's not possible.
My grandmother is Bosnian and speaks Bosnian - Bosniak is not a language.—Precedingunsigned comment added by144.134.73.159 (talk)05:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Traditional Islam seems to redirect to the Cultural Muslim article. I dont know if thats right, since 'Traditional Islam' is generally what we use to talk about those who practice Tasawwuf; a quick google search will back me up on this.—Precedingunsigned comment added byBelalHaniffa (talk •contribs)09:13, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like an autobiography, with unverified claims and original research, reflecting the experiences and actual practices of the author(s). Tagged "original research".Behemoth (talk)22:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is a strange statement. Why would or should a "concept" be universally accepted? It exists, that's all that matters. In other words, some Muslims may identify as secular or atheist. Whether others accept this or not is irrelevant.Viriditas (talk)02:11, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This really needs deletion. What a strange classification: "Cultural Muslim". I am carrying out a similar request for the "Non-denominational Muslim" article. Islam has 5 "Ma-dhabs" that form the subset for ISlam. Islam is not a culture ... it is a religion. Really should be deleted. Please discuss here before attempting to remove the deletion tag on this article.— Precedingunsigned comment added by2607:fea8:41e0:5af:7141:62b:43cb:6dc4 (talk •contribs)
I think we need to delete this term Abdullah crested for herselfHausa warrior (talk)06:12, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the one source issue. I have no idea how this Abdullah lady is so significant that she is quoted in thr leadHausa warrior (talk)06:15, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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It is not verifiable that this photo was taken;at Jerusalemat Muslim quarterand during Ramadan.
We also do not know and can not know if they are Muslim or not.
Music is not forbidden in Islam or Quran. There is even several forms of religious music. (Look for "tasavvuf musikisi")
Even if it is all true questioning peoples' beliefs and religious actions is simply wrong.
We do not and can not know who they really are.
Photo should be removed.176.88.103.207 (talk)15:56, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following sources indicate his firmness in his belief:[1][2][3]This doesn't necessarily imply he's overly religious or highly devout; it simply shows his seriousness about his beliefs, even though he leans toward a liberal outlook. If there is a category of Liberal Muslims, he belongs in that instead of this list.182.183.0.254 (talk)13:55, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
References
Honestly this page is of questionable value. A lot of generalisations made about swathes of people, like calling berbers "cultural muslims". But since it's here, can we at least get the numbers right? Like it says in Bangladesh only 39% pray, when it should say 39% pray 5 times a day, 60% pray at least once a day and 80% pray at least once a week. There's a big difference between those two phrases, one implies 39% pray ever while the other is how many pray 5 times a day. This is one of several similar mistakes which is repeated for nearly every country mentioned (such as Kosovo, Bosnia, Lebanon etc). I stopped bothering to verify after a checking a few.Mohammed Al-Keesh (talk)14:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
