Movatterモバイル変換

Beats In Kansas: The Beat Generation in theHeartland

Artist Malcolm McNeill:
On Beat Writer William Burroughs,The Unspeakable Mr. Hart Comic Series,Ah Puch Is Here Graphic Novel, and London 1970s Art Scene

Interview by George Laughead, August 2007

Emmy award winning artist Malcolm McNeill worked with Beat Generation author William S. Burroughs during the early 1970s in London. Much of that work remains unknown. Malcolm was "born and educated in England. Started working with Bill Burroughs in 1970 on comic seriesThe Unspeakable Mr. Hart while at Hornsey College of Art in London. Moved to the US in 1974 to complete graphic novelAh Puch is Here (aka,Ah Pook is Here). Lived in New York for twenty plus years. Worked as a live action/effects director for television for fifteen years. Now lives in Los Angeles. Just finished a book about his working relationship and friendship with Burroughs, including artwork from the various collaborations." [Note: Manuscript of Malcolm's book,Observed While Falling: Bill Burroughs and Ah Puch, made me read all day long -- interview was result. GL]

George Laughead: Malcolm, you knew William Burroughs before he came back to the USA in the1970s - a much younger Bill, and still living with Brion Gysin - can you tell usabout the daily life of William during his days in London? How he found you?

Malcolm McNeill: Bill was 56 when I first met him - on Duke Street in 1970 - I was 23. We�d beenworking on the magazineCyclops together and after it folded he called tosuggest we finally meet one another. It was the start of a long friendship. The lasttime I saw him was at the Robert Berman Gallery in Los Angeles, in 1996.

He lived in two different apartments at the Duke Street building; the first withBrion, the other with his odd partner John Brady. I visited him many times inboth while we were working onAh Puch is Here. Brion was around some times,but since the visits were mostly work related, he tended to chat for a while thenmake himself scarce. Even when they were both there, one thing that struck mewas that the place was always silent. No radio, no TV and certainly no recordplayer. Just me, and Bill holding forth in his jacket and tie.

GL: William Burroughs� and your comic seriesThe Unspeakable Mr. Hart is reallygreat stuff, new to me - not well known. How did William and you start that? Whyhaven�t we heard much about it before?

MM: I startedCyclops during my last semester of art school in 1970, withInternational Times editor Graham Keen. Keen convinced Bill to contribute astrip andThe Unspeakable Mr. Hart was the result. He�d shown him the artwork of the availableartists and Bill had apparently pointed at mine and said "I�ll work with this guy."

The Unspeakable Mr.Hart:Cyclops #4, text by William Burroughs; art work by Malcolm McNeill, © 1970

I didn�t know anything about him at the time, hadn�t read anything he�d writtenand didn�t even know what he looked like. Keen handed me a couple ofparagraphs of text each month and I did my best to figure out what itmeant. There was no interaction between us at all. I asked Keen if I could talk toBill, but for some reason it never happened. It was a surreal arrangement. Thecomic folded after only four months - which was a pity because whatever it was Iwas doing, I felt like I was getting better at it. Despite its short life, it issignificant that it�s not mentioned in the official WSB press kit, particularly sincehe also collaborated with illustrators Bob Gale and Steve Lawson on otherword/image projects. Completed or not, this work represented a distinct area ofexperimentation during his later London period. PlusThe Unspeakable Mr. Hart subsequentlydeveloped intoAh Puch is Here which was an unprecedented, full-blownword/image novel.

GL: Since you were a non-gay, non-beat crowd artist at the time, how did you �fit�into the London Burroughs� scene? Was that tough?

MM: It was rare that there were other people at Duke Street when we were working,but when it happened, they were invariably gay guys- Anthony Balch, IanSommerville, Michael Portman etc. It was a novel situation, but then everythingabout Bill was new. Their reactions to an obviously straight guy in their midstranged from vague indifference to mild hostility. Since these encounters werebrief, it wasn�t really �tough� as such. Being around Bill by contrast was a breeze.He was always a gent. From his mannerisms he didn�t come across as gay at all.But then again, drawing hard-ons, going to movies to admire hard-ons and talkingabout them all afternoon couldn�t help but introduce a little tension. He came onto me a couple of times. Both times when he was well lit. Saying �no� to the �OldMan of the Mountain� wasn�t easy given what was at stake, but he took it OK andAh Puch kept moving along.

GL: Was Ian Sommerville still around William when you knew him in London?Seems like John Brady was also one of William�s boyfriends duringthat period. What were those relationships like, if you know?

MM: Ian was around, though like I said, I rarely saw him. It wasn�t so much that theseguys were gay, but the fact that they were older and had a lot more experiencewith Bill than I did, simply made it a bit awkward. Ian was also a smartcomputer-head which, for a twenty three year old art kid back then was difficultto get in-sync with. I remember him in Bills� rickety elevator one time,dismissing my questions with: "It�s all about zeroes and ones my dear!"

John Brady - the "Sailor" as he described himself - wasa whole other story. He hardlytalked at all. It just wasn�t his forte. The place always felt dull and claustrophobicwhen he was around and he usually left when I showed up. Bill once remarkedthat "sex wasn�t a time for laughter." I�d wondered what that kind of sex might belike. Johnny the Sailor seemed to offer a clue.

"A tornado of vigilantes sweeps up from the bible belt" (The image the FBI called "Frightening") fromAh Puch Is Here art work by Malcolm McNeill, © 1975

GL: Your artwork with William forAh Puch Is Here is not well known - was notpublished in the 1970s - how did that collaboration between Burroughs and youwork? His text, your art - was it an on-going creation, or what?

MM: OnceCyclops folded I figured that was it. But then Keen called and told me toexpect an important phone call. That afternoon, for the first time, I heard theremarkable voice of Mr. William S. Burroughs. "I want to meet the guy whoknows how to draw me" he said and insisted we meet. Given that I didn�t reallyknow what I�d been doing for the past four months, it was an odd statement. As ithappened though, he was being literal.

The character I�d designed forThe Unspeakable Mr. Hartdid look uncannily like a younger version of Bill. Sufficiently alike enough to make him want to call me. The fact that I�d drawn him without knowing what he looked like, (if I had, I would hardly have drawn him as the villain) introduced a galvanizing element to our working relationship which would continue to grow over the next ten years: images and words going backand forth and manifesting odd, temporal, real life anomalies. The most significantof which would occur years after Bill was gone. Given thatAh Puch is Herewas a consideration of various aspects of death, this anomaly was significantenough to convince me to write an account of the process that led to it. This is thereason why, after all this time, the website of the artwork has finally appeared.

Bill and I decided on a full length word/image novel almost immediately. At thetime he had written only eleven pages of text - still titledThe Unspeakable Mr. Hart. Then after a trip to the British Museum, we ordered a copy of theDresdenCodex and the book began for real. It was re-namedAh Puch is Here after theMayan Death God and much of the eleven pages were discarded. It was adaunting prospect, not the least because I also had to try and understand who Billwas. In the first meeting he�d introduced me to the Reactive Mind, Reichs�Orgone theories, Randolph Hearst, "Nigger Killing" sheriffs, Mugwumps, theCIA, the Algebra of Need and a whole lot of other stuff I knew next to nothingabout. I knew right away I was in at the deep-end, but of what, I had no idea. Intime I realized I�d even got that wrong. �Deep� in conventionalspace/time orientation implies that there�s some kind of bottom!

In a sense, not knowing anything about Bill was my greatest asset. If I�d had anyinkling, I would have been intimidated to say the least. On the other hand, I hadto devise a methodology for creating a book form that really had no precedent andhadn�t yet been written: some pages of text, some of image and some of imageand text combined. Bill Burroughs� text at that! And finally there was absolutelyno money at all to do it. Some would come, about a year later and then it wasonly enough for a few months sustained work. Somehow however the projectmanaged to move forward and we persevered on and off for over seven years. Itbrought me to San Francisco in 1974 and then New York in 1975, where it wasfinally abandoned two years later (eleven pages were in fact published inRushmagazine in late 1976). Considering the emotional and creative investmentinvolved, failure was a difficult thing to reconcile. I stuck all the artwork in aflat-file and essentially did my best to forget about it. It stayed there for almostthirty years.

"Day is Done" fromNational Screw Magazine; text by William Burroughs, art work by Malcolm McNeill, © 1977

GL: Since those days, you�ve done much other art - including Emmy award winningtelevision work and film work. Did you stay in touch later with William? Didyour work with him effect your later art? And, in light of the 10th anniversary ofhis death in August 1997, what were your thoughts on hearing that news?

MM: Bill gave me his loft on Franklin Street in �76 when he moved to the Bunker.Naturally I continued to see him and even illustrated other texts. When he movedto Kansas, the good old days of just stopping by for a visit necessarily came to anend. I was also a first time new parent in 1979, which created a whole other set ofpriorities (Bill did volunteer himself as my sons� Godfather before he left).

Ah Puch Is Here was the formative creative experience of my life without question,beginning as it did at the end of art-school. And having Bill as a one-on-onementor for all those years was a unique privilege. I gained insights into hispersonal life and working methods which could only occur during a collaborationsuch asAh Puch and they fundamentally influenced my own sense of word andimage making. The underlying design of the book had been a continuouspanorama. One that, like the Mayan Codices, could be �folded� and viewedconventionally page-by-page or holistically as a single image. Working onrandom areas of this overall strip, rather than sequentially, encouraged anon-linear time methodology corresponding to the time-travel motif in the book.

In combination with Bills� uncanny prescience as a writer, the result was anongoing series of real-life temporal quirks that were unique in my experience andthese seemed to vindicate his convictions regarding the inherent magical qualityof word and image. It clearly demonstrated their combined ability to "make ithappen." It was the aspect of Bill that impressed itself on me most and the onethat continues to really effect me still. Seven years after he�d gone, one suchevent - and unquestionably a most remarkable event at that promptedme to dig up the artwork again and produce a written account of the time I�d spent withhim. As far as his anniversary is concerned, Bill and "Ah Puch" are integral to myworld view. A means to a means as it were, not an end. As I hope my bookshows,They are alwaysHere.