An interview fromNew Musical Express, 9th November 1985,conducted by Joe Ewart
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Through his work with Roxy Music, Bowie, Talking Heads, Devo and U2, BrianEno's influence on rock has been continuous and profound. His own work, however,has orbited ever further from Planet Pop. His latest project provides asoundtrack to video art. Brian brain probed by JOE EWART; pate plate by BLEDDYNBUTCHER.
My favourite Eno records, the two which inspired me to dig a trench to ArtSchool, are 'Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy' and 'Another GreenWorld' . They overflow with ideas: often unexpected, always wry and, withinthe framework of pop. knowingly subversive. And they make me laugh.
These days the ideas seem fewer but a good deal more protracted. AmbientMusic has been Eno's chief crusade since he abandoned the witty couplet infavour of the almost inaudible bongs and drones of his post-pop career. I'm notsaying they're bad; they achieve what they set out to do. I just miss theplaying around with context that first drew me to him.
Talking Head
Brian Eno can talk. Engagingly and at great length, he can talk aboutanything you care to put to him. Pausing only to whistle along to Miles Daviswhile boiling up a pan of rice, he appears these days to be more gentlysubversive, having lost but not forgotten, the leopard skin and lamé-cladoutrageousness of '72.
"When I was in Roxy it always felt like a strange thing to be doing. Iliked it for that; suddenly to be a part of this world that I never reallyconsidered being part of - 'cause I wasn't a musician, you see. But I wastotally committed to it. It was an interesting period.
Frustrated with the constraints of rock music, or perhaps out of a spirit ofcontrariness, Eno moved on. His latest musical product, 'ThursdayAfternoon' (released exclusively on compact disc), was originally recordedas the soundtrack to a sequence of what he calls 'video paintings'. It's asubject he's intent on discussing.
"I'm so bored with video because all the experiments seem to proceedfrom the same set of assumptions about what video can do. It can tell images ina narrative way. I was delighted to find this other way of using video becauseat last here's video which draws from another source, which is painting.
"I call them 'video paintings' because if you say to people 'I makevideos', they think of Sting's new rock video or some really boring, grimy'Video Art'. It's just a way of saying, 'I make videos that don't move veryfast'.
Too true. The 'action' in'Thursday Afternoon' is very slow indeed,mirroring a whole body of ambient 'backdrop' pieces which began, ten years ago,with 'Discreet Music'. Like wallflowers at a party, they sit well backand allow the listener to concentrate on other things, even to converse. Perfectfor an evening chez Eno.
Contain yourself
Without the any lyrical content, the quirkyhumourwhich so cleverly jollied-up Eno's earlier solo work has been put firmly on theburner.
"I like that aspect of those records a lot. But you let go of things asyou do new things. I'm slowly devising a form which contains more of what I'minterested in, but those things look quite remote from it. If you were a painterand you happened to be very good at doing caricatures and everyone really likedthem - you could do Tony Wedgwood-Benn, spot-on, everyone laughed, MargaretThatcher, ha-ha - your interests as a painter would lead you into AbstractExpressionism, but somehow the caricatures aren't going to fit into thatcontainer yet. It might be that intelligence transmutes into another form. It'snot lost, it just reappears in different ways."
Or maybe it's like when, inStardust Memories, Woody Allen isvisited by aliens who tell him they preferred his earlier 'funny' films.
"Yes. I'm sure, for instance, that people seeingThe Purple Rose OfCairo will be disappointed that Woody Allen isn't actually in it. I'mconstantly meeting people who say 'Well, it's not bad, but that other stuff wasreally good, we really like that now'. And all I want to say is 'You didn'tfucking like it then. When I was doing that you wanted the stuff before'.
The sewerage system
Thelight-hearted and encouragingly humaneaspects of his experimentation, (a joy-of-life attitude he appears to share withoccasional collaborator David Byrne) work on a very different level to that ofthe doom-obsessed 'new breed'. Eno does not suffer the Psychic TV/Foetusapproach gladly.
"There's a sort of impotence there, which is what I don't like; thesense that the world has already been fucked up and all you can do is live likea rat and make your way through the sewerage system. I don't see it that way. Idon't feel pessimistic. I never have.
"I was thinking the other day, about a movement in the Arts which youcould call 'warts and all'. Like the Kitchen Sink movement, where suddenlypeople weren't always graceful and wonderful and romantic, and places weren'talways lovely. So you started incorporating the idea that things were also nastyand pernicious. That was fine and there was a good balance for a while. But thenit turned from 'warts and all' to 'all warts', and that's the stage we seem tobe at now. It's just like unmitigated crud. Which makes me feel like a hippy.Things look pretty good to me. I admire humans and I think they're wonderful."
It's a sticky point to argue, particularly as Eno's ambient works contain nonarrative critique of The Way Things Are. Perhaps only conversation can allowsuch a wealth of opinions free rein. The containers seems ever-smaller. I'minterrupting again.
Liberalfundamentalismand pubic hair
"I did a radio programme in San Francisco once and the interviewerasked who was involved in 'Music For Airports'. I said, 'The singerswere three girls from West Germany.' He said, 'GIRLS?' I said, 'Why not? Theywere female and they were young.' He said, 'Are you afraid of saying WOMEN? Doesit threaten you?'"
Eno calls this 'Liberal Fundamentalism' "because it looks likeLiberalism but it's really just Moral Majority Fundamentalism. Allfundamentalists have the same message, which is a message of intolerance. I'msure if there's a new fascism it won't come from skinheads and punks. It willcome from people who eat granola and believe they know how the world should be."
A more peculiar culture clash awaited him at the first showing ofThursdayAfternoon, sponsored by Sony, in Japan.
"They have a law which says you can't show pubic hair. But you can showanything else, so they have the most hard-core bondage films and thousands ofbooks of little six year old girls. No pubic hair, you see. And they like theirwomen that way as well. Even 30 or 40 year old women kind of giggle and havethis little girlish aspect to them which is a bit weird when you first encounterit."
Eno goes back to the kitchen of his temporary home.
"I can't do simple things like finding a flat. I just don't seem to beable to focus on those kinds of things so a lot of my time is spent in less thanideal conditions." Indeed the kitchen's bright orange walls are wildly outof step with the beauty and restraint of his recent work.
We sit at a makeshift dining table to eat the spiced chicken and rice he'sprepared. I finish way ahead of him. Brian Eno can talk.