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I noticed that Trigun is on the list. Not to question the author's original opinion, but Trigun was first published in Shōnen Captain and later in Shonen Gahosha. That would make it Shonen, not Seinen.—Precedingunsigned comment added by24.69.74.129 (talk)05:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're correct thatTrigun is a Shōnen series, but the article listsTrigun Maximum which is a Seinen sequal to the originalTrigun series. You can read more about it in theTrigun article. --Eruhildo (talk)05:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not to correct you, but I believeTrigun Maximum was published in Shonen Gahosha's Young King Ours. Does that qualify as Shonen or Seinen? I understand that the lines here do have a fair amount of cross over (not helped by the publisher's name which as I understand has no real barring on the issue), and certainly a number of wikipedia authors have stated that the feel this is Seinen, but I was hoping for a more concrete reference.—Precedingunsigned comment added by142.104.69.30 (talk)15:01, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I do not understand the meaning of seinen correctly, but.. I don't think Bincho-tan and Strawberry Panic can fall under it.148.78.245.1205:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They got serialized in seinen magazines, so they are young men's manga.ChuChu
Why does the list only include manga when there seinen anime as well? For instance, Ergo Proxy is a seinen anime without a manga. I understand not mixing anime into the manga list, but it seems strange to me that there is only manga listed on a page linked to by theanime page. Some of the posts on this talk page seem to indicate that there was once such a list, or am I wrong? If there was, why was it deleted? --Eruhildo21:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think this needs to be discussed further instead of constantly ignored. The first issue I have is with consistancy. Both the Shounen and Shoujo articles cite the genre as pertaining to both animé and manga. The Shounen article even lists animé titles. Second issue: What's used to classify a series. I don't think serialization should be the 'be-all, end-all gospel truth'. TakingDarker than Black as an example, this animé series does have a companion manga, but is serialized in a shoujo magazine. Anybody who's seen this series will agree that there's nothing shoujo about it. Does that mean it's shoujo? -Biokinetica08:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned in a few posts above, the Seinen list should be replaced by the Seinen category. If I find the time I'll go through the list and see that they are in the category, and afterwards replace the list with a link to the category (for an example of what I have in mind seeViz_Media#Anime_manga_and_films_distributed_by_Viz). In case you object, post it here.Ninja neko12:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's much better than how it was before. The list didn't look very good and didn't make that much sense here. Thanks for the hard work! --Eruhildo21:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I took the liberty of removing a good number of titles from that list. Titles like Azumanga Daioh or Oh! My Goddess are most certainly not Seinen. --Mr.SmartyPants 2:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Edit: I did not see the archives. I apologize for the deletions. Hopefully the page can be restored (Though I don't agree that a lot of the titles listed are considered Seinen). Frick, there's a lot of debate among what is and isn't Seinen.—The precedingunsigned comment was added by68.49.32.235 (talk •contribs).
I was wondering if we could get a more clear definition of what seinen would entail. The article doesn't give any examples, unlike that of all the other demographic articles. Lacking furigana is not good enough as an indicator as anime doesn't write out what they are saying, and I have been told before that a manga which I found used furigana, was seinen.—Precedingunsigned comment added byAjaaniSherisu (talk •contribs)09:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article says that seinen is "generally targeted at an 18–30 year old male audience". I can't see how you can get any more clear than that, but some examples would be good. I added some that I think are well known series. I tried to give many different styles and genres. Does this help any? --Eruhildo (talk)10:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Most seinen I've seen don't seem to be anything a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy though, but I could be wrong. I mean look at Yotsubato! (Yotsuba&!), it's a seinen that doesn't hint at leaning towards being aimed at males. To me Yotsubato! is aimed for everyone.
If Yotsubato! is seinen, the definition in the article doesn't fit. OneMagna's definition calls seinen "darker and more somber" than shounen, yet Yotsubato! isn't dark or somber, it's a light hearted series that is very cute. Perhaps maybe we could try to find a better definition also?AjaaniSherisu (talk)09:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is a mix of misconceptions and dated information. Misconception because seinen is not a genre, and so it can't be characterized by styles and themes. And dated because all these misleading definitions were made when most seinen manga known in North America were "dark and somber", like Berserk, for example. But seinen just describe the target audience (18–30 year old men, specifically), and styles or themes are pretty irrelevant. For us it may seem weird, as something like Yotsubato! don't seem to be what a typical 18-30 year old guy would enjoy. But maybe reading theCuteness in Japanese culture article would help to understand why a typical Japanese men would like this kind of stories. Ultimately we should always take into account that the target audience of manga was thought out specifically for the Japanese mindset, and so it only makes sense for a Japanese audience.Kazu-kun (talk)18:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I can see what you are saying ^_^. I was wondering though what you meant by "Japanese mind set"? I wasn't aware that I was supposed to have a certain mindset. I hope I'm not being rude, I just was wondering :(.AjaaniSherisu (talk)05:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the primary audience of manga are the Japanese, which is the audience manga publishers think of when doing their marketing. How does a seinen audience (18-30 year old Japanese men) think? What does a seinen audience like? Manga publishers have to think about all this in order to reach their audience. So we may not understand why an X manga is targeted to an X audience, because we don't think exactly like a Japanese, nor we like exactly the same things. That's what I meant by "Japanese mindset".Kazu-kun (talk)06:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But the thing is, I am Japanese. While I am only half, I don't have this mind set you talk about. Exactly what is "think like a Japanese" anyway? I wasn't aware we all thought the same. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, and if I am, I'm sorry. I just want to make sure you aren't being racist in your comments. Again, if you didn't have any intention on that, I am sorry.AjaaniSherisu (talk)07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think he meant it like that. He's just saying that there is a difference between cultures. As in someone from the US wouldn't fully understand the tastes of someone from Japan because the two grew up in different cultures. Though I think he's being a little too general - some Japanese people probably don't understand why some series are published in seinen magazines either. --Eruhildo (talk)04:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, ok. I get what he is saying now. Yea, I really don't understand how some seinen are favoured by more men than girls. Yotsubato! is a big example. If anything that series is aimed at everyone, not just men aged 18-30. I also find it weird that there have been a few shoujo titles that have switched to seinen magazines, such as Aria (once called Aqua and published in Monthly Stencil). Unless it made a complete change, I really don't see how a manga can go from being aimed at girls to being aimed at 18-30 year old men so easily. I've been told a few times and has been referenced in the article that furigana is an indicator, but I've been told by a few people a certain manga is seinen even though it uses furigana, which is weird.AjaaniSherisu (talk)11:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It strikes me that the situation is not that "because of the emphasis on storyline and character development instead of action some seinen series are often confused with shōjo, or girl's manga" as the article states, but that westerners are defining shoujo far too broadly (also perhaps explaining why so many westerners outside the shoujo demographic claim to like shoujo manga). It's pretty clear: men are interested in young girls, and maturing, the young man is finally taking an interest in drama over action. All my own observation, of course, just like the statement in the article, but clearly the publishers know their audience better than we do (ie, I say let the publisher's classification be the standing definition). This also tends to jibe with my own tastes as a western thirty-something male who has little tolerance for shoujo manga.75.105.128.54 (talk)20:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I read over the Japanese wikipedia article on seinen manga, and it sounds like they are moving away from trying to define it in terms of age. Seinen manga are aimed at male university students and working men rather than high school students. The characters who appear in the stories tend to be a bit older than those in shonen manga. That being said it is sometimes difficult to judge which a manga strip is in isolation. Some shonen manga deal with coming of age in a fairly mature manner, but they are still run in manga magazines alongside other more juvenile strips. Perhaps the best way to tell is look at what magazine a strip originally appeared in, and then check what kind of audience it has.Dongord (talk)07:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is thisANN article a good enough ref to say that seinen is used to refer to mangaand anime? Or do I need to look for more? Just because we decided to not label any anime series as aimed at a particular demographic doesn't mean saying seinen can refer to anime isOR. --Eruhildo (talk)06:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ANN's lexicon is dated and therefore misleading, so it can't be used as a source. Anime producers usually don't disclose their target audience, so seinen is rarely used in relation to anime. If you think that's not correct, then try to find an Anime producer stating one of their anime as seinen (or more accurately, stating that it is targeted to a seinen audience). You'll realize anime producers almost never do this.Kazu-kun (talk)07:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since you say it's dated info, does that mean anime producers use to state the demographic? If so, can we say that in the article? Also, why do we link toja:男性向けアニメ in the external links? And why do we link toJapanese Magazine Publishers Association? Lastly, can someone fix the other articles listed in the See also section as well as theanime article? --Eruhildo (talk) 18:37, June 1, 2008
I think what he means is that anime producers don't really use seinen as a demographic like you see with manga. ANN also states certain aspects which don't fit a lot of seinen titles, so it does seem to be a bit dated. One wouldn't say Bamboo Blade is dark, psychological, or sexual.AjaaniSherisu (talk)07:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is a distinction in Japanese between family anime (or general 一般アニメ ippan anime) on the one hand, and adult anime (or more narrowly H エッチ anime, ero anime) on the other. You can watch family anime during the daytime on TV, while adult anime are only usually shown at night (after 11:30 p.m. - see 深夜アニメ shin'ya anime). Anime based on seinen manga such as AKIRA or Ghost in the Shell are probably just classified as general anime in Japan, as they don't have an adult rating in movie theatres or on the DVD package. Most Japanese people will probably understand if you say 'seinen anime,' but I don't think the term is used as widely as 'adult anime,' for instance. On English wikipedia, there is a section on Japan underAdult animation.Dongord (talk)22:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Sincepolling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into accountWikipedia's naming conventions.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I think the examples are a bit too narrow, most are the dark, dramatic type when a lots of seinen manga also do slice-of-life. I think that adding a few of those would help people reading understand more that seinen is not a genre but a demographic and that that demographic enjoys a variety of things.ChicagoPiano115 (talk)14:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The article in general lacks any real sources. It would need a major overhaul if anyone is up for the task. —Farix (t | c)21:58, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
