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The following is a closed discussion of arequested move.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider amove review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose – The article is about "Philosophy, Politics and Economics", a particular degree programme (and thus proper noun), not the disciplines of philosophy, politics and economics generally. For example, the PPE degree atOxford andDurham capitalise the degree title.jamacfarlane (talk) 21:10, 20 June 2018 (UTC);!Vote struck pertheir new !vote below. --TheSandDoctorTalk16:48, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jamacfarlane:a particular degree programme. The article is not about a particular degree programme. It is about a plethora of degree programmes in a given interdisciplinary discipline.
For example, the PPE degree at Oxford and Durham capitalise the degree title. Would such institutions not also capitalise other interdisciplinary programme names (e.g,environmental studies,religious studies,art history[1]) in similar contexts? Moreover, you seem to be engaging in thespecialized-style fallacy.
And if this is uniquely a proper noun, does that mean that the following capitalization would be required to conform to our MOS?
Similarly, is the phrase really aproper noun in the sentenceOf the many undergraduate programmes in philosophy, politics and economics at universities around the world, the programme at the University of Oxford is regarded as amongst the most prestigious.?142.160.89.97 (talk)22:58, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi@142.160.89.97:, my point is that (from my reading of it) the article is about particular degree programmes, not the academic discipline. It's a different type of article to the other examples you give:religious studies talks about the content of the academic field, butPhilosophy, Politics and Economics talks about which notable people have studied the degree, and which universities offer it. As to the MOS, my view is if you are talking about a degreein something, you would not capitalise it (e.g. a "degree in art history"), but in this case we are talking about the degreeofPhilosophy, Politics and Economics. It is capitalised in the same way you capitalised "Bachelor of Arts". Therefore I agree the phrase isn't a proper noun in that sentence you quote (regarding Oxford). Perhaps we could split into two articles, one about the PPE degree (notable alumni, which universities offer it, etc) and another about the interdisciplinary discipline.jamacfarlane (talk)23:19, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Jamacfarlane:As to the MOS, my view is if you are talking about a degreein something, you would not capitalise it (e.g. a "degree in art history"), but in this case we are talking about the degreeofPhilosophy, Politics and Economics. It is capitalised in the same way you capitalised "Bachelor of Arts". Strictly speaking, one does not have a "degreeofPhilosophy, Politics and Economics". One is admitted to the degree of Bachelor of Arts following the completion of a given course of study, in this case, philosophy, politics and economics. WhereasBachelor of Arts is a title (yes, phrases likeDoe is a Bachelor of Arts have fallen out of fashion, but it is a title nonetheless),philosophy, politics and economics is a course of study, hence the difference in capitalisation. Also, to clarify, which provision of the MOS is it that you're referencing there?
Therefore I agree the phrase isn't a proper noun in that sentence you quote (regarding Oxford). Perhaps we could split into two articles, one about the PPE degree (notable alumni, which universities offer it, etc) and another about the interdisciplinary discipline. But in the sentence you're referring to, isn't the term referring to the undergraduate programme rather than the interdisciplinary discipline (if we are to make such a distinction as you propose)? I'm sure we can take it as given that the term is not a proper noun when used to refer to an interdisciplinary discipline and you're saying that it isn't a proper noun when referring to the undergraduate programme. So if it's not a proper noun in either sense, why would we capitalize it?
I'm coming to your point of view and willsupport but would appreciate if the article could be reworded to focus on the discipline instead of particular degree programmes which (at least, the institutions running them assert) are proper nouns.jamacfarlane (talk)18:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Move to "Philosophy, Politics and Economics degree", i.e. add "degree" after the current title. That can clarify things, right? --George Ho (talk)03:02, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. No reason for a degree course to be capitalised and no further disambiguation or clarification is needed as it's a very commonly recognised phrase. --Necrothesp (talk)13:21, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of arequested move.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in amove review. No further edits should be made to this section.
I am unable to find any example of the uncapitalised version in the sources given for the UK institutions which offer this undergraduate course. And the US examples look pretty similar. Doesn't this suggest it should be capitalised? I see the last move was 6 years ago. Thanks.Martinevans123 (talk)15:20, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed… I believe this comes down to the “proper noun” debate… I believe that Courses are usually prescribed to the cohort. Unlike the “American” model where there are suggested courses within a specified core-area. (E.g. - in the U.S.: Students take general topic courses that are relevant to the degree, these courses may or may not be “lock-stepped”; depending on the institution… I think that the “Oxford-model” may be different than other schools, even within the U.K.
P.S.: New here, please do not defenestrate me… Just yet!
Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) arose from the belief that the advanced study of all three subjects would transform students’ intellectual lives, to great social benefit. This conviction remains as firm today as it was then. As the world has evolved, so has PPE. The course brings together some of the most important approaches to understanding the world around us, developing skills useful for a wide range of careers and activities. […]”Alexisbytes (talk)17:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
