Talk:Operation Grapple
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I have added some screenshots of the Grapple X aircraft and weapon taken from theChannel 4 TV programmeBritain's Cold War Super Weapons. They're not very good but considering the subject matter will probably have to do until someone can find some better ones.Ian Dunster 10:52, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I read recently that the H Bomb test was actually a huge A Bomb, which fooled the US into believing that the Uk had cracked the fusion bomb problems, leading them into collaboration. I'll try to find the source and see how reliable it is and them amend the article if appropriate. --Dumbo123:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Added information and reference from House Of Commons documents on Nuclear Testing Veterans. It is surprising that after all these years, the fact that this was a hoax, (the UK has never successfully build an H bomb) seems not to be generally known. --Dumbo117:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This Article, including Tsar's contribution, seems to have been vandalized (or, to put it more politely, badly edited). It is true that Short Granite, the first test in the Grapple series, fell well short of its expected yield, but was hailed as a success by the British. It is also true that the second test, Orange Herald, was in reality a very powerful single-stage weapon.However, Grapple X and Y were both successful tests using the Teller-Ulam design. Both were detonated before the 1958 US-UK Mutual Defence Agreement was signed on July 3 1958, and certainly before the US could have given any nuclear know-how to Britain.The mis-conception seems to have arisen from a statement by Brian Jenkins, MP for Tamworth (he is not reputed to have knowledge of nuclear physics, and at the time was speaking in support of veterans who were claiming that their health had been harmed by the explosions), in the House of Commons on 4 December 2002, in which he appeared to be referring to the Orange Herald test.Seehttp://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo021204/halltext/21204h01.htm.Also, what is this doing at the end of the wiki article: "Although great men have made very important accounts of what was seen, it is still unproven that TNT and oil could have been used to create such effects."?-theeurocratTheeurocrat13:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The 4th test was not cancelled due to poor yield.The only other design mentioned by Lorna Arnold is Orange Herald (large) which was certain to make a big bang.Man with two legs13:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ha, I noticed my Cassandra page getting a few hits from this - The Cassandra pictures are "mine" but I have never been able to identify the military man in them, and at some point I will have to go back to archives to work out who it was. So if anyone can actually work out who the military chaps are, and which of the actual tests they are photographs of, I'd appreciate the extra information for the page.
Lawrie00:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Empire Clyde was apparently one of the troopships involved in the 1957 tests. Can anyone provide a reliable reference for this? I'm not sure thatthis passesWP:RS.Mjroots (talk)21:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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The table on this page and the contents of any nuclear tests infobox are generated from a database of nuclear testing which I have maintained and researched for a number of years. The table is automatically generated from that database by a Visual Basic script, and then has, periodically, been inserted into the page manually. I began doing this in October of 2013.
Recently a user complained (politely) to me about the practice. It seems to him that it removes control from all editors besides myself over the content. He believes it is tantamount to WP:OWNED of the pages affected. He also points out that there is no public mention of the fact anywhere on wikipedia, and that is true, through my own oversight, until now.
There was no intent that the pages affected should be owned by myself; in fact, one of my reasons for building these pages was to solicit (in the wikipedia way) criticism and corrections to the data, perhaps additional references that I had been unable to locate. I have regenerated the tables twice in the days since they were originally placed. Each time I did so, I performed a diff between the current version and the version that I put up in the previous cycle; all corrections were then either entered into the database or corrected in the programming, as appropriate. As may be guessed, the programming corrections were frequent to start out as suggestions about the table formatting were raised, and most incorporated. I have not made judgements on the "usefulness" of corrections; all have been incorporated, or I have communicated directly with the editor to settle the matter. In fact it was in pursuing such a correction that this matter came up.
I am posting this comment on the Talk page of every page containing content which is so generated. If you would like to comment on this matter, please go to the copy onTalk:List of nuclear tests so the discussion can be kept together. I will also be placing a maintained template on each Talk page (if anyone would like also to be named as a maintainer on one or all pages, you are welcome). I solicit all comments and suggestions.
SkoreKeep (talk)15:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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in the Cooperation with the United States section"An additional benefit was that the UK was able to buy highly enriched uranium from the US and also sell plutonium to it made in British nuclear reactors. This deal was useful to both parties and profitable for the UK."
There is no source for this and it is contrary to what is stated in the BBC Windscale documentary (search for it on youtube)In the documentary they go on to say after the 1958 US–UK Mutual Defence Agreement the UK would transfer uranium to the USA in exchange for plutonium.The statement about it being profitable for the UK needs citation as well.
This is the first time I have bothered mention an error on Wikipidia so sorry if I made a mess of things.— Precedingunsigned comment added by23.243.221.250 (talk)23:43, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I have not been able to find a review of these studies by a secondary medical source.
However I think that bearing in mind the author of the study has been contracted by Veteran's numerous times - He also looked at 24 Vietnam veterans, who were "exposed to agent orange". Which was then similarly used by the Veteran organization, to sue the government.
Bearing that in mind alongside the fact that looking at pubmed, the author similarly has gone on to publish in 2007, on the apparent chromosome effects of powerlines(another close to FRINGE affair)...I think the editors of this article need to be far more careful and watchful for their confirmation bias, we need to follow the guidelines on[unreliable medical source?] on these matters.User:Hawkeye7
Here is the same researcher, RE Rowland, publishing on Chromosome abnormalities from powerlines.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17080456One wonders if this was likewise paid for by anti-powerline advocates?
Or to use his own "research" to explain his previous findings. Maybe 50 of these operation grapple veterans, just lived beside powerlines? Something he did not take into account in his earlier nuclear testing research, published in ~2005.
Boundarylayer (talk)14:06, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of references to the bombs dick seem unlikely not to be vandalism, but on a phone I can't track them down.Midgley (talk)20:41, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was surprised to come here from the main page and find statements that would not sit well with a reader who thought that nuclear testing was not a good thing, that Britain achieving nuclear capability was not a good thing, or that nuclear weapons in general are not a good thing. Respectively, "A second test series was required" in the lede; "British timing was good" in § aftermath; "an extraordinary scientific and technological achievement" in the lede – all of course in the encyclopedia's voice. ☆Bri (talk)03:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The second test was Grapple 2, of Orange Herald. Its 720-to-800-kilotonne-of-TNT (3,000 to 3,300 TJ) yield made it technically a megaton weapon."
Can someone explain to me how an 800kT weapon is "technically a megaton weapon"? A megaton is 1,000kT. One could call it a "megaton range" weapon because it's closer to 1mT than to .5mT, buttechnically it is not a megaton bomb. A 900hp aircraft engine can be classified as "in the 1,000hp range", but technically it fails to meet that bar.
Came acrossthis interesting article about two Gilbertese civilians who witnessed the bombs. Can these perspectives fit in the article?— VORTEX3427(Talk!)10:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the nomenclature used in this article that referred to the primary as "Tom" and the secondary as "Dick." While this is a cute anecdote, it was confusing to read this article when the scientific terms were changed throughout.Benacche (talk)02:19, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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