Talk:Navajo
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User:Hottentot wrote "(this article should be merged into the main one:Navajo Nation)."
I disagree with this.Please see what I,Robotbeat, said in theTalk:Navajo Nation section.Robotbeat19:35, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Now we need a strong expansion into the post contact conflicts between Mexico, the US, and the Navajo people, as well as the problems with their Pueblo neighbors. I would like both an Early history and a European contact section. I've started the second section with several paragraphs.WBardwin04:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Re-reading David Brugge's research paper "Navajos in the Catholic Church Records of New Mexico 1694 - 1875" (1968) is a real academic eye opener. His preface starts off with a decree of Governor and Captain-General of Kingdom and Province of New Mexico, J.I. F. Mogollon in 1714. The decree points out that as soon a slave ship full of Negroes arrives in the Indies ports of the Kingdom, they are first baptised and then pass to their owners. The decree commands that all Apaches as they are found should be taken for baptism just like the Negroes. Not doing so will result in losing the Apache and of not permitting their owner to trade in Apaches in the future. 4,300 baptism records of Indians are examined, sorted by date, type, recorded tribe, and commented upon. Then the 160 paper quotes Spanish reports in chronological order and ties Spanish conflicts to the church baptismial records.
What is really interesting to me is the period between 1800 and 1868, especially what happened after US took control of the area. Brugge indicates that the Spanish/Mexican and "New Mexico Volunteers" practice was that anyone capturing an Indian got to keep them as their property. The vast majority of baptisms of Navajos took place in the 1860s. In short, Navajos were still being captured by non-Navajos (Utes and Commanche as well as Mexican-Americans) and sold/traded according to US New Mexico District, US Military and church records, through the Long Walk period. In June 1865 President Johnson ordered the slave trade in Indian captives suppressed. Ironically, records indicate all Navajos were ordered Ft. Sumner and this extended to at least 95 Navajo being held by New Mexican citizens.
This is not to say that the Navajo and Apache were the total victims of what we would call slave trade today, but it does shed some light on the times from contemporary written records that span 175 years. --Rcollman14:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There should be some reference to the use ofCode Talkers in World War II and Korea. I disagree with Talkin'Hawk in the second to last article. His defenition of " my belief is my shield " is conpletly inappropiate for this topic!!!
Mullhawk (talk)04:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why is part of this section in present tense when speaking of the 1800s?—Precedingunsigned comment added by12.52.22.35 (talk)13:26, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I started a series of edits in the History section. Reguarding the Southwest, the Spanish in the 1500s only provided a written record of what either they saw or what they wanted Spain to know. For example, it is not clear if the Spanish ever had reason to enter the heart ofDineta before 1740, so they would not know Navajo settlement patterns there. On the other hand, the Spainish did record lots of commercial activity by those who could have been Navajo with the Hopi, Acoma and Tewa pubelos. So in my first series of edits, I kept most of the information and dates but changed the words so the reader can draw their own conclusion. --Rcollman14:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Deleted Coranado reference to Plains Apache groups and references to dogs. The 1540 quote says this group was to the East of the Pubelos (not West), living in tents, eating bison (not using corn). Sorry, inclusion here implies that these people were Navajo. It maybe that Apachean groups used dogs to assist in their semi nomadic movements, prior to sheep, goats and horses. My opinion willing to listen and accept changes --Rcollman14:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure that the 1541 reference to Navajo is more than speculation. I am willing to be enlightened. Another reference on this page's links say they came down the Rocky Mountains, just a little different than the plains. The statement is not unreasonable speculation but why so much space? More interesting speculation would be 1) Why the Navajo were returned to their lands and 2)why their reservation size increased after the the Long Walk. Are these unique happenings in North American history? --Rcollman|aka Chris Collman 3 March 2006
I too have been interested in the answers to those two questions. The only answers I have found seem like speculation. As far as I know the Navajo Nation is the only reservation that has repeatedly expanded from an early time period. Others gained lands in the late 20th century after changes in politics, attitudes and many law suits. An example is Blue Lake gained by th Taos tribe under Nixon and the Havasupai gained back some of thier upper rim traditional lands. The Navajo however expanded again and again. Many other tribes lost lands starting in the 1890s (?) after the Dawes act started aportioning the land to individuals and taking the rest. Why didn't this happen much to the Navajo? They did lose one big gain when the checkerboard lands were created in NM. Those lands were given by a president but the NM senator was powereful and congress passed an act to prevent the pressident from doing that in the future. I think the reason is that Navajo culture was uniquely attractive to powerful adminstrators who lived near or with them. Also there was little interest in settling those areas and the coal gas and oil weren't useable yet. Perhaps because they were not aculturated by the spanish they were in a more powerful mental state, also they were a large group and a large area so people in the BIA and it's predisessors might have tended to be more powerful within the goverment. They did cause a fairly big scandle when the conditions at Bosque Redondo came to light. They did refuse to go anywhere else and said they would rather die but so did many others. I have always thought it was a very interesting problem about why they have been so succesful and most other groups have not. In fact many peoples like the Lakota seemed to have been hated by they indian agents at the sme time that the Navajo were being helped.ErikP23:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
My interest in and research on the Navajo Indians began with my interest in Kit Carson who "rounded them up" in the 1863-64 war.That led me to 3 books: Navajo Wars by Frank McNitt, 1972, Univ. of New Mexico; Navajo Roundup by Lawrence Kelly, Pruett Pub. Co. 1970 and Indian Depredations in New Mexico by John Watts, 1858. My research ends in about 1868. If you want more info post 1868, go eleswhere for other books; and be sure to see: The Second Long Walk : The Navajo-Hopi Land Dispute by Jerry Kammer, which I have not read. Many Navajo today have a false and mistaken view of Kit Carson. See my extensive discussions on Kit in his talk page.Cazedessus17:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While reading this article I noticed some vandalism which had somehow survived recent reversions, so I've reverted all the way back toUser:71.116.151.109's edit of March 23rd.Chris Chittleborough12:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
From a class I had with Witherspoon at U of Washington, Seattle and a book on the archeology of the Navajo (I'll have to find the reference) I think the 1540 date is very late. I know this is in dispute, but I believe the earliest remains of a male hogan are tree ring dated to around 900- 1100. That would make them entering the area, asimilating some of the pueblo /anaasazi culture and growing corn much earlier. The area was ESE of four corners. This is not coinsidently far from the traditional emergence site north orf the confluence of the San Juan and the Animas ( now under navajo lake). It also is similar to the traditional generations from emergence if you count by navajo ideas of a generation. This would also explain the myths that include people that sound like the anasazi at Chaco canyon. In any case the changes from Apache culture and language to one that was more settled with corn fields and weaving and pottery and cosmology that borrows more from the nieghboring Pueblos must have taken a little longer.ErikP01:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC) Erik[reply]
Male and female hoghans are how Navajo people refer to them. It is in the language and standard. I am cerain and everyone on the Navajo Nation uses these terms. I don't have a reference because it is just how everyone talks in English and Navajo. Almost everything in Navajo ideas about the world comes in gendered pairs. Male and female rain, mountains,directions, colors, even the Hero twins who are both boys, Born-for-the_water is the "feminine" of the pair. Male hogans today are mainly used for sweat lodges. They are also called forked stick hoghans. They have a pointed top. Female ones are the more standard ones today. They are modeled after the one for Changing Woman (called Hooghan Hotłʼeztsoos) made by First Man and First Woman (Altsé hastiin and Altsé asdzáá). BTW Witherspoon, although he is a anthropologist is married to a Navajo has Navajo kids, one of whom is in the Tribal council, and speaks fluent Navajo and knows some chantways. ErikP
How do you add to the main heading at the top? The one that is under the photo with the pop. figures etc. The listing under religon should definetly mention Native American Church (NAC). I have heard that about one third of the Dine on the rez practice it to some degree. ( personal experience and lecture by Witherspoon). At least half of all practitioners of NAC are said to be Navajo. As with most things adopted by the Dine it is being heavly "navajoized". There is much overlap and some compitition and sometimes hosiltiy towards it from both Navajo Way and Christianity. Historicaly the BIA police persecuted it. It came in to the area probably from the Utes in the Tees Nos Pos area and then spread. Later a new group of practictioners came accociated with the AIM people and Lakota activists. Northern plains sweat lodges came the same way at the same time and happen, though much more rarely. Anyway, I think it should be added.ErikP18:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I meant. Sorry I didn't know terminology. Thanks,ErikP21:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I need to know more information for my state report. I`m just not geting all the info.. If you have some share it fast. I need it by tomarrow. 10 year old star student.24.118.173.196 (talk)01:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
T.M.I. To Much Information. What the hell are you talking about? Who are you?Jessico Melser—Precedingunsigned comment added by24.118.173.196 (talk)01:42, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps something to consider for inclusion in some fashion, if only as a spur to expand the vanishingly small reference to the practice of hand trembling:Fonseca, Felicia (27 January 2007)."Navajo Marine who says he discovered gift as healer granted conscientious objector status". Earthlink News (reprinted from the Associated Press). Retrieved2007-01-27.. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me)19:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Were the navajos involved in the trail of tears?G man yo03:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all{{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on theEthnic groups talk page.Ling.Nut17:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a source for this change? Most of my books, admittedly somewhat dated, go with the previous version. I will not revert/change the edit for now, but would like to see the source of your info. Thank you.WBardwin01:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This article has sources listed at the bottom, but it doesn't actually cite references. The one instance in this article where a reference is cited, it is used like a footnote, which is absolutely NOT how references are meant to be used. Please fix this! --Luai lashire20:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They're matrilocal, but are/were they matriarchal or patriarchal?Badagnani (talk)08:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In the 1846-1863 section it states: "Officially, the Navajos first came in contact with European Americans in 1846" In the preceding section, "1550 to 1845 AD", it states that the Navajo had contact with the Spanish in the 1600's. Is not Spain a part of Europe? It's certainly not in Africa or Asia. Would someone please fix this?24.160.241.39 (talk)06:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It don't make me no nevermind. But any superlative claimmust be backed by an authoritative citation. If you find a better reference than the 2000 US Census, this article and theCherokee article must agree. --Kbh3rdtalk02:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How does the Navajo nation have a "independant government body" as the article claims, when still having to operate under the BIA of the Ministry of the Interior? And having practically no say about companies that mine for uranium on their land?Real independence and sovereignty I think can only be achieved by what the Lakota Nation has been doing recently.—Precedingunsigned comment added by77.162.133.112 (talk)11:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The following material removed from the article for discussion and clarification.WBardwin (talk)00:36, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's a message onImage talk:Zahadolzhá--Navaho.jpg about the appropriateness of this photo. Any comments from the regular editors of this article? Thanks.howcheng{chat}19:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I refer of course to the origin of the word 'Navajo.'—Precedingunsigned comment added by79.78.45.20 (talk)15:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(saysCramyourspam (talk)08:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)CramYourSpam ):A user removed the vintage photo of Gen MacArthur with Navajo and other soldiers, replacing this with a snapshot of a living painter. I'm surprised that the usual notability and biography-living-person police didn't pounce. If anyone wants to put the WWII photo back, here's the info[reply]
enclose this in [] brackets:[Image:General douglas macarthur meets american indian troops wwii military pacific navajo pima island hopping.JPG|right|thumb|GeneralDouglas MacArthur meetingNavajo,Pima,Pawnee and otherNative American troops.]
Instead of removal - please copy edit or add references wherever possible first. Thanks...Modernist (talk)15:44, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Atenyak, you are misunderstanding. It is only contentious unsourced material about living persons that needs to be removed immediately. For everything else, time is on our side. Tag the material as unreferenced, and attempt to find references. Don't wipe out relatively uncontroversial but unsourced material. On the other hand, if you think any of the info is wrong, point us to sources with the correct information.Elen of the Roads (talk)16:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I hope we can just agree on some of these things, it would save time. I'll add suggestions as I come across things.Atneyak (talk)19:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This article is very poorly written. It needs many fixes and it should be expanded as explained below.
The sentence "In the last 1,000 years, Navajos have had a history of expanding their range and refining their self-identity and their significance to other groups" is vague and needs to be reworded.
The sentence "The Spaniards—and later, Mexicans—recorded what are called punitive expeditions[by whom?] among the Navajo that also took livestock and human captives." is very vague, particularly in the middle section.
The sentence "This was the largest reservation (called Bosque Redondo)[citation needed] attempted by the U.S. government." is unclear (I don't understand what the word 'this' points to -- probably to a reservation which is not introduced anywhere).
I am not going to venture in fixing the "Conflict on the reservation" section. I do not have the time nor the patience to fix the lousy work of the original contributor. All I have to point out is that many parts (1887, 1890, 1913) are written in the present tense instead of the past tense. In addition, the clumsy "for having plural marriage" could well be replaced by "for poligamy" which is more elegant. Other parts (1930) are written in a horrible way and there is lots of nonsense. "There were people who were" could be replaced by "some people where" which is a much better way to start a sentence.
The sentence "Mary Cabot Wheelright and Hastiin Klah, an esteemed and influential Navajo singer, or medicine man" needs to be fixed. Who is the singer and who is the medicine man?
The sentence "relief in the post war period to relieve" is an example of redundancy that should be avoided.
The sentence that starts with "The Navajo people traditionally" is completely out of context and should probably in the "Culture" section above the "Traditional dwellings" section.
"strengthen weakness" is awkward and not very explanatory.
I am surprised the article does not mention at all the contribution of the Navajo people in WWII with the Navajo Code Talkers. A section of this article on WWII should be added.
I met Navajo people once. I remember that some of them told me hematite is a sacred and healing stone to them. I would like to know if this is true and if someone can verify this claim.
ICE77 (talk)02:56, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
this isn't an essential part of Navajo history or anthropology.Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ17:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why do both this article andCherokee people claim the title of largest tribe? They both can't be...Onopearls(t/c)05:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With this edit:Latest revision as of 02:32, 2 December 2012 a cited addition was reverted, with the explanation: "Wrong".
The cited information came from a reputable source:Patricia Anne Davis, MA Choctaw-Navajo/Chahta-Dineh in her article:Natural Order as an Open Social System : Native American Concepts
Btw: after a more careful evaluation of the treatice, I agree that the information reverted might not be appropriate for the article; however, I donot agree that verified information should be removed without prior discussion. It is my hope that this, and related articles, can become expanded rather than contracted - by collaboration rather than unilateral decisions made by elitist editor(s). ~Thanks,Ahééhee', ~E74.60.29.141 (talk)01:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've already put in a lot of information on various species of plants under the ethnobotany section, and I think its getting too large to keep in prose. Would anyone object if I moved the various info into a separate article as a list and linked it back to that section? I've got a lot of information from the University of Michigan website and its only going to get bigger.Asarelah (talk)01:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
the name was changed by us children of God because that is what their name translates out to. with our self centered out look there can only be one children of God so they had to change their name.— Precedingunsigned comment added by207.160.169.217 (talk)18:21, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've added back properly sourced material on denial of welfare to the Navajo in the 1940s; seems to be well sourced.Parkwells (talk)23:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Minor point to me as a non-Navajo. However in 1973 a Navajo who I worked with on a daily basis for over a year, was very upset about me writing anything about the Navajo. The person made a big deal that the siblings learned in school that there were female and male hogans. The siblings asked their elders and were told that there were "just hogans". Thus on behalf of my former colleague, I asked for a citation. I do not know if Navajo have different words for what obviously to a Non_Navajo as to what looks like similar but different structures. If they do not, then the female and male Hogan is an outsider concept.Rcollman (talk)02:33, 12 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think the term siláo when not translated, is not useful for non Navajo speakers or people who have not lived on the Navajo Nation. It means soldier. The BIA were run "military style" (and awful in the early days), but they were not run by the US Army. It may be that what is meant here is the those interviewed felt that those running them were "like soldiers?". Or it may be a mistake? In any case a translation into English is needed. Anyone from the Navajo Nation who knows a little Navajo will know the term siláo, but this is an article for those not from there.Eapainter (talk)18:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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The sentence about Mary Cabot and Hostiin Klah read as though Mary Cabot was the esteemed and influential Navajo singer. Mary Cabot Wheelwright was a white lady from Boston. Hosteen (Hostiin) Klah was the Navajo singer, artist and weaver. I updated the sentence to describe Wheelwright as she is in her own Wikipedia article - a Boston heiress.Curdigirl (talk)07:31, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Was the ethnic or tribal population of Navajo at 356-365,000 instead of 300,000? They are considered the largest Native American tribal nation in the USA. The Navajo Nation of 3 of 4 corners states (AZ, NM and UT without CO) and an exclave the Hopi Nation might be the area population I was talking about was 356-365,000 then.2605:E000:100D:C571:6DCE:ABEA:BC50:DF93 (talk)09:12, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn’t the primary term be Diné and Navajo be simply routed to this page?Jake453 (talk)16:45, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The number of members of the Navajo tribe in 1800 should be given. As a result of the introduction of modern medicine, the current number, about 400,000, is about 10 times the number earlier. This is true of much of Africa, Asia and Australia and New Zealand.— Precedingunsigned comment added by 2a00:23c4:4e9f:d101:8a4:95c0:87ba:6ae (talk •contribs)10:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I'm2600:8800:2C09:2F00:F9DB:17F8:8B22:8486. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, but you didn't provide areliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like toinclude a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look atreferencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message onmy talk page. Thank you.2600:8800:2C09:2F00:F9DB:17F8:8B22:8486 (talk)18:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is about to be a 5th ship of the US Navy/ Military Sealift command named Navajo. the are
Is there any value to mention that in this article?Wfoj3 (talk)22:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Currently the article lists the Navajo Nation reservation size to "straddle[s] the Four Corners region and cover[s] more than 27,325 square miles (70,000 square km) of land in Arizona, Utah, and New Mexico." This is uncited.
Most estimates put it at 27,413 square miles. I believe this may be because the article did not take into account the lands disconnected from the rest that are primarily used for agricultural purposes.
Would using the Navajo Nation's resources for this revision be considered appropriate or should another source be used?AevumNova (talk)15:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nádleehi has no mention here despite its role in Diné culture and its relative significance considering the shooting of Fred Martinez and the impacts of that on tribal jurisdiction.
Perhaps one should be considered?AevumNova (talk)15:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
0mtwb9gd5wx (talk)04:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
0mtwb9gd5wx (talk)04:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:http://www.navajopeople.org/navajo-history.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored,unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
Forlegal reasons, we cannot acceptcopyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source ofinformation, and, if allowed underfair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks andreferenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, provided it does not infringe on the copyright of the originalorplagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see ourguideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violationsvery seriously, and persistent violatorswill beblocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.Queen of Heartstalk
she/they
stalk19:31, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am watching the (excellent) film Frybread Face and Me, which is set in the Navajo Nation. It is noticeable that the majority of the cast, most of whom have substantial acting credits to their name, do not have their own WP article. It's not a criticism, nor do I have any plans to create or seed any articles on these people. I'm simply curious to know if there are any particular reasons for this, other than nobody having yet created such articles. I wondered, for example, if there happen to be cultural reasons (whereby Navajo people, or people of any particular community/religion/culture/heritage/nationality) prefer not to be included in WP or request removal of WP articles about them that are created.
On a related note: if a person (for the purposes of this question let's assume the person is a film actor) requested removal of a non-controversial WP article for idiosyncratic reasons (e.g. pertaining to their culture/nationality/heritage/beliefs), would WP comply with their wishes? To keep answers tight, please respond only under the headings of 'always, yes', 'no, never' or 'maybe, it depends'. I presuppose the answer is 'maybe, it depends', but I am curious to know if it is one of the other two options. Thank you in advance.Flusapochterasumesch (talk)13:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
