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Hi, would it be possible to turn all thereferences on the subpages (the lists) to proper references with <ref></ref>. I find it confusing that these pages have a different system and use other symbols. Including other information about the url such as name and archive url also helps the verifiability long term. See alsoWikipedia:Bare URLs.Dajasj (talk)05:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think having the partial lists classified as|class=list from inception is the best option (as opposed to|class=redirect or|class=<blank>), whether or not they are currently a redirect, or have already been turned into a proper list. 2 reasons for this:
One of the goals, I think, is to minimize the steps necessary to bring a page out of dormancy as a redirect to a proper list, which|class=list does, with no real downside.Ping toPraemonitus who has done some recent rating here. ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)14:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a redirect will automatically override the class setting, so there's no harm in setting it to 'list'. However, the way WP:AST importance ratings are assigned, a redirect has a 'na' importance while a 'list' will have a normal low/med/high/top importance.Praemonitus (talk)05:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Praemonitus: I think it's ok if the temporary #Rs are misclassified as lists for the time they remain #Rs, even if that time is lengthy, since their intended purpose and eventual destination is to be a list. Otherwise it just seems like a distinction without much of a difference. But, if you want to keep track of that, go for it. ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)17:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some things just grow by incremental edits and get out of hand. The "External links" section, one of the optional appendices, has grown to 17 entries. Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to try to add for a forth. While not the most egregious the overlisting was very excessive
The problem is that none is needed for article promotion.
ELpoints #3) states:Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
LINKFARM states:There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
ELCITE:Do not use{{cite web}} or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section.
Inclusion as an "External link" shouldcontain further research that is accurate and on-topic, information that could not be added to the article for reasons such as copyright or amount of detail, or other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article for reasons unrelated to its accuracy.
WP:ELBURDEN:Disputed links should be excluded by default unless and until there is a consensus to include them. --Otr500 (talk)
The Minor Planet Center has lists of discovery circumstances fornumbered minor planets which link to a script at the Harvard University Center for Astronomy MPES (Minor Planet Ephemeris Service) that displays citations.
The Minor Planet Center also provides asearch engine allowing a search of its database from your browser.
In the first two cases you need only modify the last argument of the address to the name or number of the minor planet. The lists of discovery circumstances are split into groups of 5000 minor planets, each containing links for individual named minor planets that access the script displaying citations. --Otr500 (talk)10:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kwamikagami: On 30 September 2025, you'veadded the word "purported" to the explanation of this name, asking if this goddess exists. What's the source for the doubt? Right now, I am inclined to remove the "purported".
I tried to find a reliable source for the existence of the goddess, but I've had mixed luck so far. The name is mentioned in multiple sources prior to the naming of the object. The question is whether those sources are reliable. For example, the anthology"African Religions. Beliefs and Practices through History" by Douglas Thomas and Temilola Alanamu from 2018 has a section about it, referencing Berglund's "Zulu Thought-Patterns and Symbolism" from 1989. I looked at Berglund's book, and I cannot find any mention of the goddess.
Purportedly it's another name for 'Nomkhubulwane'. But the article on her was deleted as unsubstantiated; the request was from someone who is apparently Zulu. I don't recall if I saw the request at the time; I'll ask the deleter where it's archived.— kwami (talk)09:48, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Kwamikagami: Thanks! This was an expired PROD.[1] At the time of its deletion, the article used these references:
Hennig, Wanda. "Even the Spirits Need a Menu as a Zulu Goddess - Cuisine Noir Magazine". www.cuisinenoirmag.com. Archived from the original on 2016-09-10. Retrieved 2016-03-06.
The old EncMyth article is at web.archive for www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/africa/african/articles.html, from 1999. By 2020 it was gone, apparently with all the other African stuff.— kwami (talk)13:22, 5 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The content was,
Mbaba Mwana Waresa, by Dr Anthony E. Smith
Mbaba Mwana Waresa is a beloved goddess of the Zulu people of Southern Africa, primarily because she gave them the gift of beer. She is the goddess of the rainbow, rain, harvest, and agriculture. The story of her search for a husband is well-known, and recently appeared in a beautifully illustrated children's book.
Article created on 28 August 1999; last modified on 05 April 2001.
Copying the response of the user who requested deletion:
Hi, There is indeed such a goddess as Nomkhubulwane in the Nguni pantheon e.g. in Zulu traditional religion, but there is no such deity as Mbana Mwana Waresa in the same pantheon nor is Mbaba Mwana Waresa known to the people of that nation. Mbana Mwana Waresa is not even a term in any South African language (I suspect it's an East African term or from another Southern African country but I stand corrected). If people want to restore that page they need to provide more concrete evidence. Alternatively, the article needs to be overhauled to provide evidence of credible academic links between different Southern and East African fertility goddesses. However, it is literally misinformation for the article to claim that this deity is a Zulu deity in particular. Equivalent pages in other language wikis are equally problematic in that they solely cite or primarily depend on disreputable sources e.g.,Legends of Beer andThingz Afrikan.Edwin Ndaba (talk)07:10, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite possible that all these short descriptions come directly or indirectly from Merlin Stone (1979)Ancient mirrors of womanhood: our goddess and heroine heritage, which has 2 full pages on Mbaba Mwana Waresa. I wonder if somewhere along the line someone just swapped a couple names.— kwami (talk)01:44, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Kwamikagami: Thanks! (For reference, Edwin Ndaba's comment comes fromhere.)
Could you clarify what you mean by "the concord looks wrong for Zulu"?
If Edwin is right (and while we have no way to know, I'm inclined to take them seriously), this will be difficult to rectify without either digging up some very obscure references, ordoing the research ourselves. A friend of mine has described the situation as "an anthropological game of telephone", which may be quite apt.
I have borrowed the 1984 reprint ofMerlin Stone's book. The trail of evidence seems to start with Stone in 1979. If we can find out what her source was, that could be very useful. As you said, she devotes about two pages to the story (p.151-153). She gives no source for it, although the book includes a bibliography which she states includes the main sources for the work, sorted by "cultural area". Here is the list for Africa. I have put those that sound potentially relevant in boldface. One of them has its own Wikipedia article:
Arnott, K.African Myths and Legends Retold Oxford University Press 1962
Old doesn't mean unreliable. I tried The Realm of a Rain Queen; it seems quite a nice book at a glance, but doesn't seem to be the source for Mbaba.
I once had a smidgen of Xhosa, and the name doesn't look right to me. But then I hardly remember anything of it. Maybe we could check with Zulu WP or some prof of the language.
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The redirectSchlottmann has been listed atredirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets theredirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect atWikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 August 5 § Schlottmann until a consensus is reached.ArthananWarcraft (talk)12:52, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]