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Talk:Juneteenth

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13th Amendment does not completely abolish slavery, the article should say so prominently.

[edit]

I have twice tried to change the sentence "In January 1865, Congress proposed the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution for the national abolition of slavery." to add ", except as punishment for a crime." at the end. I also linked the text to "Penal labor in the United States" which I've seen done elsewhere on here. I think it's a important and neutral edit. In the interest of accuracy, that's what the amendment says and how it's used. I also think the spirit of the holiday is to not give up on the remaining enslaved people, freedom is for everyone.GlowingLava (talk)22:24, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are the only one who thinks it's neutral. The difference is so vast as to be incredible. And your "freedom is for everyone" post should be tagged as "not a forum."Fyunck(click) (talk)21:36, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't claim that penal labor is the same thing and I'm not trying to share an opinion on the 13th amendment in the article, I am trying to prevent misinformation. I think you're taking my explanation as more personal than I meant it. Someone who reads this article would think that slavery and involuntary servitude is entirely abolished in the US which isn't true.
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/
Multiple states allow long-term forced labor at $0 wages.
GlowingLava (talk)22:50, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The lead section is supposed to be a short summary, and it is already on the long side. Details such as this should be dealt with elsewhere.MrOllie (talk)23:47, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Involuntary servitude" is not in this article, and that blog post isn't discussing abolition, it's discussing making the pay/benefits better while continuing the system.Alanscottwalker (talk)07:54, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not a detail for the lead of this article. As you were told: first, the slavery the lead of this article is talking about is hereditarychattel slavery and whatever penal labor is, it is in no way hereditary chattel slavery -- children are not born into penal labor and no one is property, as in chattel slavery; and 2) the amendment is still an abolition amendment, and the lead of this article is not the place to make an argument whether it was the perfect or the best abolition amendment -- this is especially true, since the only reason the amendment is in the lead is to give a short contextual timeline for not what happened on Juneteenth but what happened in Delaware and Kentucky in December. --Alanscottwalker (talk)21:49, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If anything, the lead could probably use less information about the details of abolition.Firefangledfeathers (talk /contribs)22:03, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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