This level-5 vital article is ratedC-class on Wikipedia'scontent assessment scale. It is of interest to the followingWikiProjects:

BhutanLow‑importance This article is within the scope ofWikiProject Bhutan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage ofBhutan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can jointhe discussion and see a list of open tasks.BhutanWikipedia:WikiProject BhutanTemplate:WikiProject BhutanBhutan Low This article has been rated asLow-importance on theproject's importance scale. BuddhismLow‑importance This article falls within the scope ofWikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing withBuddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit theproject page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism Low This article has been rated asLow-importance on theproject's importance scale.

Archives

discussions to 2008,09,11: pre- and post-Requested Move /Archive2

Dear Wendy L. (IPUser:76.89.241.64)

Onmy talk page you wrote:

To Christopher Fynn,

I am writing from DPPL, official publishing arm of the Drukpa lineage. While we appreciate your detailed contributions to the Drukpa wiki page, our lineage holders consider the lineage to be "Drukpa," rather than "Drukpa Kagyu." We politely request that you refrain from changing the entry back to include "Kagyu." Thank you very much for your understanding.

Wendy L. DPPL—Precedingunsigned comment added by76.89.241.64 (talk)17:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, in many traditional Tibetan sources and in most modern academic sources this tradition is generally referred to as the "Drukpa Kagyu" ~ and, though it has some unique and special trachings, this lineage has always been considered as an independent branch of the Kagyu tradition established in Tibet by Marpa, Milarepa and Gampopa. The contemporary Bhutanese branch of the Drukpa Kagyu also seems happy to be known as Kagyu, as it frequently identifies itself as such. Since in traditional Tibetan sources, modern academic sources, and elsewhere the tradition is referred to as "Drukpa Kagyu" - this seems most appropriate name to be used in an encyclopedia. It also avoids confusion since today Drukpa also frequently means "Bhutanese"). If for some reason the modern Drukpa (Kagyu) institution or organisation headed by H.H. Drukchen Rinpoche, the respected heirarch of the main Tibetan branch of the Drukpa Kagyu tradition, has chosen to re-brand itself as simply "Drukpa" or "Drukpa Lineage" that is another matter. I presume this is being done in order to give the contemporary Drukpa school an identity clearly distinct from that of e.g. the Karma Kagyu, the Drikung Kagyu, and so on. However, understanstandable as this is, it does not mean that the widely used and accepted term for the historic religious tradition should be changed or altered in an encyclopedia article to align with this contemporay excercise in re-branding. Furthermore, removing from the Drukpa article quotes and references to published sources in which the name "Drukpa Kagyu" is used, apparently simply because you don't like the name, as you appear to have done - is IMO close to sheer vandalism. As you say you are from the "official publishing arm of the Drukpa lineage", do you represent a NPOV in this matter?

Chris Fynn (talk)13:48, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Wendy, there is no point discussing with Chris Fynn, we had a huge discussion with everyone in th globe (Chris Fynn and Sylvain72 are very popular among many of us, including Rinpoches and Tulkus) and found out more about Chris and his background. There are many "scholars" like that. Look, he is still saying "Drukchen Rinpoche" and that's why when some histories were manipulated hundreds of years ago, before we were born, this is the end-result. Let's spend our time building our Wiki. Forget about this!+118.100.72.169 (talk)21:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it just as objectionable for Wendy L to remove nearly all references to"Drukpa Kargyu" or"Drukpa Kagyu" in an encyclopedia article simply to comply with DPPL preferences?Drukpa Kagyu is after all the way this school of Buddhism is usually referred to in both academic publications and popular books on Buddhism. While her reasoning is clearly outlined in the sub-section "Name" that has been incorporated into the the article itself, this does not alter the fact that many other reputable sources, including many followers, still refer to the school as theDrukpa Kagyu.Lodu (talk)07:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. This page is not NPOV at all.Sylvain1972 (talk)13:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Google Book Search currently gives only 14 hits for publications with the phrase "Drukpa Lineage" but 542 for those with "Drukpa Kagyu" ~ something like 1:38. "Drukpa school" has 137 hits, but together at 151 that is still only about a third of those using "Drukpa Kagyu". There are a number of publications using both terms. "Drukpa Kargyu" (with an "r") also has 54 hits, "Drukpa Kagyupa" 166, and "Drukpa Kargyupa" 46.Wikipedia:Naming conventions lists "Prevalence in reliable sources" as an important criteria.Lodu (talk)05:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wendy,
Welcome to Wikipedia. If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or thingsyou have written about on Wikipedia, you may have aconflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia'sneutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you shouldavoid orexercise great caution when:

1. editing orcreating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
2. participating indeletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
3. linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (seeWikipedia:Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining toneutral point of view,verifiability of information, andautobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please seeour frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you.

The following (and possibly other portions of the article) have some problems with preserving aneutral point of view:

Drukpa lineage continues to thrive and flourish and benefit all sentient beings. It is supported by the state and given unconditional effort by all involved, from the lowest rung to the highest level.Nonetheless, the 4th Gyalwang Drukpa Pema Karpo left a prediction that he would return with two reincarnations. His other reincarnation, Pagsam Wangpo continued the lineage in Tibet.

The first sentence states a religious belief (that the lineage "benefit[s] all sentient beings"), which cannot be the viewpoint of a neutral source such as Wikipedia; "thrive and flourish" are also probablepeacock terms. The second claim of "unconditional effort" is dubious at best, and seems likely also apeacock term. The fourth is no problem, except for needing referencing. The fifth assumes the reality of reincarnation, which is also a religious belief, not the neutral viewpoint of Wikipedia. (I say these things out of no dislike for Buddhism - my wife is a Buddhist - but out of trying to improve Wikipedia.)Allens (talk)02:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just had to revdel about eight years worth of edits because of plagiarism fromthis article. It was inserted atthis edit in 2008.Ian.thomson (talk)06:16, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link onDrukpa Lineage. Please take a moment to reviewmy edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visitthis simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archivehttps://web.archive.org/web/20080602014604/http://www.dailynews.lk:80/2007/07/25/fea11.asp tohttp://www.dailynews.lk/2007/07/25/fea11.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set thechecked parameter below totrue orfailed to let others know (documentation at{{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018.After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored byInternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other thanregular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editorshave permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see theRfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template{{source check}}(last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them withthis tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them withthis tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot(Report bug)04:33, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but it's been years since I did any work here.
seehttp://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Rechung_Dorje_Drak
--BenTrem (talk)03:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• C-Class level-5 vital articles
• Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in Philosophy and religion
• C-Class vital articles in Philosophy and religion
• C-Class Bhutan articles
• Low-importance Bhutan articles
• WikiProject Bhutan articles
• C-Class Buddhism articles
• Low-importance Buddhism articles

• All Wikipedia vital articles